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Thread: The American Cultural Imperative

  1. #11
    Senior Member arthor's Avatar
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    a tad lost

    cyfarchion

    I confess to having got a tad lost reading all the posts on here. I have one or two points/queries.

    a)IMO it has to be judeo-christianity. Surely they were all followers of the jewish religion that believed in the same stuff, old testament, including the coming of a super human/son of god character (please correct me if I have this wrong) who would save a world inhabited by fundementally flawed humans. Surely it was just a disagreement about whether jesus was the guy or not that caused the christians to breakaway. it doesn't matter where these two groups have influence today.
    b)are we talking about how the Americans view the world or their influence on it, either as some grand scheme or coincidentally.
    c)has the main discussion here been how Americans view judeo-christianity in the world at large based upon their own internal experiences or whether US judeo-christianity has evolved seperately from elsewhere and has less of a judaic element than elsewhere? eg evangelism which, as stated earlier, is a US phenomenon but RC and orthodox have their followers there too.
    d)Lastly, is it not true that the make up of christians in the US is largely down to what part of Europe their ancestors came from?

    wasshael

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    Quote Originally Posted by arthor View Post
    cyfarchion

    I confess to having got a tad lost reading all the posts on here. I have one or two points/queries.

    a)IMO it has to be judeo-christianity. Surely they were all followers of the jewish religion that believed in the same stuff,
    To begin with I don't have a lot to defend, because a lot of Christians think that I am a heretic, not of the neo-judaic kind (noone dares question Jews except patriots), but of the esoteric kind. But it is completely untrue that traditional Christians believe in "the same stuff" as Jews. Jesus was a heretic in Juda long before there was such a thing as an organised Christian church. Read about the hate of the Jews against Jesus and the conversations of Jesus with the Pharisei, for example, in Matthew; read also the gospel of John and the revelation of John, both of which have some quite revealing content about the relationship between the beliefs of Jews and the new covenant. There is an israelitic backdrop, but Jesus was different and a scandalous heretic in old Juda. In all likeliness he was also influenced by greek, indian and persian wisdom. The idea that these influences were brought in later as foreign to a jewish Christianity falls on several accounts. The Mountain Address has clear similarities with teachings in confucianism and zoroastrianism, and there are clearly hellenic influences permeating the words of Jesus. There's nothing germanic about the cradle of Christianity, but it also needs to be recognised that it is certainly not "the same stuff" as what the Jews believed in.



    old testament, including the coming of a super human/son of god character (please correct me if I have this wrong) who would save a world inhabited by fundementally flawed humans.


    The idea of the Messiah in the Old Testament, and even more so in old jewish tradition, is one of a great warrior and King in the wordly sense, a great man of the jewish people who will lead them to victory against their enemies. Is that anywhere near "the coming of a super human/son of god" in the Christian fashion? No. It sounds to me like you are talking about Superman. Christianity interprets the words of the Old Testament in a different way from Judaism, and there are even some grounds for it that the New Testament may have been designed as a heresy, as something that would be a horrible abomination for the Jews. Whether that is a good thing or not, I will leave it unsaid, and stick to the case from a detached viewpoint.


    Surely it was just a disagreement about whether jesus was the guy or not that caused the christians to breakaway.
    No, that's flawed. That's all from the point of view of Christianity. Judaism has a completely different view of these things. Jews quite often insist that the New Testament is false in every possible way.


    it doesn't matter where these two groups have influence today.
    It matters, the question is more about what significance we attribute to it, but I feel that this trail goes off topic. There are other threads dealing with it though.


    b)are we talking about how the Americans view the world or their influence on it, either as some grand scheme or coincidentally.
    Both. The war on terror I would consider a grand scheme, and I certainly do not believe that the purpose of it is to save Europe from Islam. You didn't say that either, did you?


    c)has the main discussion here been how Americans view judeo-christianity in the world at large based upon their own internal experiences or whether US judeo-christianity has evolved seperately from elsewhere and has less of a judaic element than elsewhere? eg evangelism which, as stated earlier, is a US phenomenon
    "judeo-christianity [...] has less of a judaic element than [...] eg evangelism which, as stated earlier, is a US phenomenon, but RC and orthodox have their followers there too."

    Alright, here I believe we are plunging right into some serious disagreement on terms and history. You are a native of the UK though. The socio-cultural term "Anglosphere" seems to have a lot more validity than I would like to admit. I used to criticise this notion, but I have partly reconsidered. In many ways it does seem that the British have more in common with the U.S. and with Americans than with e.g. Swedes, and that shouldn't really come as a great surprise either, from a point of view of history. Well, history does perhaps not tell us a straight story - I guess that's the problem, and it seems at least to me to be open to different interpretations.

    But the point is, I'm not even sure what you said, unless again you equal judeo-christianity with traditional Christianity. I have already dwelled on the anachronistic tendency in that frame. Some even speak of judeo-christian religions - quite interesting, since it highlights with even more clarity how flawed the idea of judeo-christianity really is. Most traditional Christians would not want to be called Judeo-Christians, and most Jews would not like to be called Judeo-Christians, so which are these judeo-christian religions? I have dealt also with the problem from a historical point of view, and I agree with Crimson Guard, who put it this way:
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Guard
    The current concept and term of "Judeo-Christianity" is really modern, used only in the late 19th and early 20th centuries and gained wide spread current popular PC usage post WW2. Is mostly alien to the majority of everyday Christians, least Roman Catholics I can speak for.
    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by arthor
    d)Lastly, is it not true that the make up of christians in the US is largely down to what part of Europe their ancestors came from?
    If we go back to the beginnings, isn't the question of what kind of spirituality thrived in North America rather a question of what was considered untraditional and undesired in Europe?



    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Guard View Post
    I really cannot see what American politics has to do with Scandinavia, there really isnt much contact nor influence aside from media but that also swings both ways. The Liberalism and Secularism present in Scandinavia is home grown for the most part I'd say, so the shifting of self-responsibility is erroneous. If anything they are influencing Britain which is in turn influencing the USA, as Britain and the USA as they remain very close politically and many of the upper class's are actually related through blood and/or finances..also with the Jews and Arabs for that matter. Its kinda like one big milk shake, with shades of grey rather than black and white.
    It's like asking what American politics has to do with the world. Sweden is not some kind of mythic paradise completely isolated from the rest of the world. As for our liberalism and secularism being home grown, it is true to a great extent, yes. Both of these things as we know them are the result of the social democratic dominance in politics since the 1930's, and the fact that the vocal liberals and the ex conservatives that are now liberals took over their objectives does not in any way change the facts about the source of liberalism. So I admit that what you say about homegrown is true, but if we go back to the beginnings, social democracy started in Germany and came here from there. Furthermore, jewry and social democracy are closely intertwined, and we can say that the sometimes problematic relationship between jewry and social democracy is one that has certainly come to loosen up with time also in those rare cases where there was no consensus back in the old days.

    And although ordinary Jews quite often don't like to be a part of "Judeo-Christianity", other Jews encourage that notion insofar as it serves to break down what they call "Anti-Semitism". Indeed, Jews also sqaubble with other Jews. Just take a look at Norman G. Finkelstein's book The Holocaust Industry. I heard he got into trouble at his University in the U.S.. What was that all about? A Jew being accused of anti-semitism in the U.S.? I couldn't find the article just now.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Matthieu Borg's Avatar
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    Much like in any other Western European country our career-political elite and economical elite have joined in with, and thus forced Sweden to become a part of, the post-WWII world order of rootless consumer culture, globalism and multicuturalism.


    But the Swedish Socialdemocrats (of which the internationalist commies had broke out of and formed a communist party in 1917) was traditionally a patriotic Swedish people's party which ended unacceptable capitalist exploitation of the Swedish worker, installed the world's finest social infrastructure and thanks to the pooled resources attained from socialdemocrats policies managed to further Sweden as an innovative and industrial nation with native know-how and wast wealth owned by the Swedish people and not some capitalist oligarchs. In fact, the world's first governmental racial institute was founded by Swedish Socialdemocrats in 1921. They also implemented eugenics to improve the "Swedish race".


    But after WWII and the globalist victory things started to deteriorate in the Swedish political scene, just as they did in every Western European nation, and by the late 60's the power in the party was completely shifted to the new generation, the "Civil rights movement" type of American leftists. The "Civil rights movement" leftists had a field-day with Sweden as they could and did take over the huge Socialdemocrats power structure of a [working and ethnically homogeneous] welfare society. Which explains why the Swedish establishment is so through-outly pervaded by these extreme-leftist multiculturalists. For example the Swedish mass media is probably the most multiculturalist in Europe; an unbelievable 30% of all Swedish journalists vote for the "former" communist party compared to 5% of the general population.


    Many Americans believe Sweden is some "birth place of modern liberalism" when in fact it was the birth place of 20th century racial science and in many ways the closest thing to a National Socialist state, it was in fact a Democratic Nationalistic Socialist state in the world before NS Germany. All that "modern liberalism" which today pervades the Swedish establishment actually comes from Zionist America and your "civil rights movement".

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    Senior Member SwordOfTheVistula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absolut Svensk View Post
    All that "modern liberalism" which today pervades the Swedish establishment actually comes from Zionist America and your "civil rights movement".
    Which actually comes from central European jewish immigrants.


    Doesn't having everything centralized to such an extent make the country more susceptible to corruption from a small group of people?
    Contact Congress on immigration
    Contact Congress to reject banker bailout
    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." --Ben Franklin

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