View Poll Results: Can Colonials uphold more than one Celto-Germanic tradition at a time?

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    22 41.51%
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Thread: Can Colonials Uphold More Than One Celto-Germanic Tradition at a Time?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nachthimmel View Post
    In my opinion, there's a clear answer: no. Most Americans are bad at retaining their cultural and linguistic heritage, and even those that manage to make this effort (usually 1st and 2nd generation immigrants) don't teach it to their children. They teach them English and try to integrate them into the American society like good citizens. The tendency of any country which has a monoculture is to become as homogeneous as possible. Multiculturalism just doesn't work in countries like the USA. Let's face it, the only people who have preserved their heritage outside their motherlands are these Volksdeutsche in Europe who live in enclaves and the Amish in the US who isolate themselves from the modern world. Without an enclave, it's pretty difficult. And please don't tell me that these sausage fests or Oktoberfests are preservation of German heritage because it's a joke. So, who comes to America is better off becoming American. Anything else is like swimming against a waterfall. I'm speaking from own experience. Had I not returned to Germany, my generation would have lost my German heritage and my children wouldn't have been German anymore.
    Judging by americans I have met, I agree with you. But what does it make of americans then, are they really germanic? Just because someone speaks a germanic language, that person is not a germanic, in my opinion. Take german americans, for example. Switching from their traditional language and culture to american english language and american culture does not make them "still germanic" to me. They lost their heritage - that's the way I see it.

    To a question put here, about whether one can choose the ethnicity that one is most drawn to, I am doubting. Generally speaking, I say no, you cannot. That would wash out the entire concept of ethnicity if you could. For people who only have one ancestor of a different ethnicity and who do not further dilute their ethnic ancestry, it could work, but for every time you cross an ethnicity with another again, it becomes a lot more complicated, and when this has occured many times I tend to say no, quite categorically, you cannot choose one of your ethnicities.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesDexterWard View Post
    Judging by americans I have met, I agree with you. But what does it make of americans then, are they really germanic? Just because someone speaks a germanic language, that person is not a germanic, in my opinion. Take german americans, for example. Switching from their traditional language and culture to american english language and american culture does not make them "still germanic" to me. They lost their heritage - that's the way I see it.
    It doesn't make them still Germanic if by that you mean English, German, Swedish, Dutch, or whatever their ancestry was, but they most certainly are Germanic. American culture and language is Germanic, just like Afrikaner culture, Australian culture or Canadian culture. By immigrating to the US and adopting these things, they become a new kind of Germanic.

    To a question put here, about whether one can choose the ethnicity that one is most drawn to, I am doubting. Generally speaking, I say no, you cannot. That would wash out the entire concept of ethnicity if you could. For people who only have one ancestor of a different ethnicity and who do not further dilute their ethnic ancestry, it could work, but for every time you cross an ethnicity with another again, it becomes a lot more complicated, and when this has occured many times I tend to say no, quite categorically, you cannot choose one of your ethnicities.
    That's why they should become American. I would say American can be cnsidered an ethnicity today, just like English, German and the like. There is an ethnogenesis and there are certain inflows that created this ethnicity: mainly people of Germanic heritage from England, White Anglo-Saxon Protestants (WASPs), Germans and Scandinavians. Just like England is a mix of Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Normans, Celts and so forth. That's what the American ethnicity is about. It's an amalgamation of Germanics. You couldn't say the Portuguese, Serbs, Finns, Slovenians, Albanians, Georgians or the like had a significant contribution and were a significant inflow to the American ethnicity anymore than you could say the Huns were a significant inflow to the German heritage.

    So, in my eyes, trying to preserve Germanness in America, unless you are Amish or live in enclaves, is like trying to preserve Normanness in England. Better just go with the flow and be an American.

  3. #13
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    Americans are Germanic. The issue here's another. Some folks don't like Americans, so they deny them being Germanic. It's based on malicious, vile hatred for Americans, not on reality. Ya know something, Germanic ain't an exclusively European concept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle View Post
    If the Germanics in New World countries manage to get a handle on things politically, they will eventually create unique identities based on the genetic material that exists.

    New Worlders often have misguided ideas about the 'ethnic identities' of Old Worlders; they tend to think that imitating the older ethnic identities is the only way to 'preserve' Germanic traditions. But this stagnant view of ethnicity is a big misconception. The Nordish-Germanic populations of New World countries are the new product of assimilation and stabilization of a variety of stocks from Northern Europe over time. They are still Germanic, but their identities will never be exact copies of those that exist in Old World countries. This is obvious because the genetic material is different in each case.

    Excellent post and one that well sums up my personal opinion on such matters. I can't attempt to juggle the various strains of my ancestry any more than I can to pick only one to focus on. Both seem rather shallow and arbitrary to me.

    And of course, I am speaking as an 'old New Worlder', of very early, 1600s stock, and not as the product of more recent immigration.

    In my corner of the world, we have forged a new identity on a new continent and under new & different circumstances...most certainly derivitive from various places in the northwest of Europe, both Germanic and Celtic, but new & different nonetheless. I can't 'pretend' to be Dutch or English or German or Scottish (though I very much acknowledge these strains in my genes & memes)--all I can be is the northern New Englander that I am. It is precisely the traits that we still have here from older days, both cultural and populational, that I attempt to preserve and see continue into the future. And, beacuse of my hyper-provinciality, I have a difficult time thinking of myself as just a general American--that's just purely too simple and expansive of a term.

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  6. #15
    Senior Member Freydis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    Americans are Germanic. The issue here's another. Some folks don't like Americans, so they deny them being Germanic. It's based on malicious, vile hatred for Americans which is cultivated on Stirpes, not on reality. Ya know something, Germanic ain't an exclusively European concept.
    Not all Americans are Germanic, but I'd say some are. The issue here isn't hatred for Americans; the issue is the evolution and changing of the original culture of America. To deny that is to deny decades or in some cases hundreds of years of change. What's wrong with disliking general perceived behaviours or attitudes of Americans anyways? I, for the most part, have not many problems with some Americans, but others I cannot stand (i.e. the tourists in Toronto who thought I didn't speak any English and yelled in my face o_O or the ones who are very rude).

    I cannot say that I like every American, just like you cannot say that every American is Germanic. It's too general, I guess like the term "American" which has some rather negative connotations due to some poor experiences with some rude or otherwise poor-minded Americans.

    America is a state rather than a nation, in my opinion. I would say that only a minority of Americans could be counted as Germanic because they lack the culture (rather than a lack of blood per se, though mixing would account for some loss of "Germanicness") to be so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freydis View Post
    Not all Americans are Germanic, but I'd say some are. The issue here isn't hatred for Americans; the issue is the evolution and changing of the original culture of America. To deny that is to deny decades or in some cases hundreds of years of change.
    What about the evolution and changing of the original culture of England? Last time I've been there, I saw whiggers on the streets and Muslims. So the conclusion would be that England is not Germanic? What about Germany? No, nobody comes to these conclusions, except when it comes to the USA.

    What's wrong with disliking general perceived behaviours or attitudes of Americans anyways?
    Nuffin, but disliking Americans shouldn't be the reason to deny their Germanic heritage.

    America is a state rather than a nation, in my opinion.
    Please define state, define nation and prove that America is not a nation while England for example is.

    I would say that only a minority of Americans could be counted as Germanic because they lack the culture (rather than a lack of blood per se, though mixing would account for some loss of "Germanicness") to be so.
    Many modern-day Germans lack the culture. Yet no one questions Germany's Germanic character.

  8. #17
    Senior Member Freydis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    What about the evolution and changing of the original culture of England? Last time I've been there, I saw whiggers on the streets and Muslims. So the conclusion would be that England is not Germanic? What about Germany? No, nobody comes to these conclusions, except when it comes to the USA.
    One of the differences between the English nation and the American state is that England, up until very recently was ethnically homogeneous. England is changing, and I never denied that, nor did I deny it's changing for the worse.

    Nuffin, but disliking Americans shouldn't be the reason to deny their Germanic heritage.
    Like I said, not all Americans are Germanic. To say something like that is delusional.

    Please define state, define nation and prove that America is not a nation while England for example is.
    It's elementary political science... -_- A state is a political entity surrounded by borders. A nation is based off of common language, ethnicity and culture. America has a common language, but not a common ethnicty and arguably does not have a common culture throughout (more than just subtle differences between regions). England is not a state because it is not a political entity-- it is only a nation. A nation-state would be somewhere like Slovenia, where it is both a nation and a state.

    Many modern-day Germans lack the culture. Yet no one questions Germany's Germanic character.
    I wouldn't say that too many true Germans differ from the national character of their parents, etc. Turks, maybe yes.
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  9. #18
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    Let's keep other fora out of the discussion please.

    K thanx.

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freydis View Post
    England is not a state because it is not a political entity-- it is only a nation.
    According to the definition that you yourself have provided from 'elementary political science', England doesn't qualify as a nation in its current form; it doesn't possess a common ethnicity, as it has plenty of non-Europids from all around the globe. It's obvious that it wasn't ethnically heterogeneous until very recently, but nevertheless it currently isn't a legitimate 'nation' based on elementary political science.

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    Ya know something, Germanic ain't an exclusively European concept.
    Ya know, Americans are an exclusively European Concept.




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