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Thread: Is Free Speech Essential to Germanic Preservation?

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    Is Free Speech Essential to Germanic Preservation?

    I think it's clear that in matters of free speech, neither the GDR nor the FRG had any, though in theory they both claimed to have it. It's actually not so different from the other regimes... there were claims we had free speech in socialist Romania too, and even in the USSR. Most countries, maybe besides the Islamic ones, claim to have free speech. :

    The big question is, is free speech really necessary for German preservation? Another question, what's more important, free speech or ethnic homogenity? For me, like for other people, I would prefer a totalitarian state 100 times, if it meant an ethnically homogenous totalitarian state, to a liberal state full of immigration. I'd prefer economical crisis and collapse, poor conditions, if it meant to be among my people only. Because like Thorburn says, we can recover from political persecutions and economical imbecilities, but we can't recover from ethnic destruction. If our ethnicity is threatened, if it disappears, we can have all the free speech in the world, because it won't bring it back. So, to me, there is only one answer. Free speech and democracy, things like the liberty to travel or immigrate to other countries and more, are only secondary to ethnic preservation. Like a German saying goes, I know no political party, I only know the German people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    I think it's clear that in matters of free speech, neither the GDR nor the FRG had any, though in theory they both claimed to have it. It's actually not so different from the other regimes... there were claims we had free speech in socialist Romania too, and even in the USSR. Most countries, maybe besides the Islamic ones, claim to have free speech. :

    The big question is, is free speech really necessary for German preservation?
    Free speech is important of course, it is necessary to be able to talk about any important issue - we are in this mess because we have no free speech.

    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    Another question, what's more important, free speech or ethnic homogenity?
    Both are important, you can't have the one thing without the other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    For me, like for other people, I would prefer a totalitarian state 100 times, if it meant an ethnically homogenous totalitarian state, to a liberal state full of immigration.
    I disagree, if it not possible to live freely in my own country the idea of Germanic preservation become void.
    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    I'd prefer economical crisis and collapse, poor conditions, if it meant to be among my people only. Because like Thorburn says, we can recover from political persecutions and economical imbecilities, but we can't recover from ethnic destruction. If our ethnicity is threatened, if it disappears, we can have all the free speech in the world, because it won't bring it back. So, to me, there is only one answer. Free speech and democracy, things like the liberty to travel or immigrate to other countries and more, are only secondary to ethnic preservation. Like a German saying goes, I know no political party, I only know the German people.
    If we do not manage to liberate ourselves in order to live free and in dignity, we do not deserve to live at all.
    When men cease to fight — they cease to be — Men.
    “Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves.” Brendan Behan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aptrgangr View Post
    Free speech is important of course, it is necessary to be able to talk about any important issue - we are in this mess because we have no free speech.
    Isn't there a bit more free speech in the FRG than in the GDR? At least in post-communist Romania, there is more democracy than in the communist era. Free speech wouldn't be the biggest problem in a PC state if the "correct" politics was pro-German in my view. Because you can change forms of governments in history, but if the ethnicity is destroyed, everything about preservation is lost. The German colonies in Peru may have preserved the language and folk culture, but they are mixed with mestizos, so that ca't be called truly preservation.

    Both are important, you can't have the one thing without the other.
    I think it's possible. The Third Reich was an example: it was ethnically homogenous, but freedoms were cut.

    I disagree, if it not possible to live freely in my own country the idea of Germanic preservation become void.

    If we do not manage to liberate ourselves in order to live free and in dignity, we do not deserve to live at all.
    In other words, you prefer the German nation to die if there is no free speech?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aptrgangr View Post
    Free speech is important of course, it is necessary to be able to talk about any important issue - we are in this mess because we have no free speech.
    Giving free speech to the masses is dangerous, because the masses are stupid and influentiable and individuals can take advantage of that. And don't tell me that free speech doesn't necessarily mean mob rule, because if you allow certain kind of speech, it influences the people, especially the youth which is susceptible to new and noncomformist ideas. Free speech brings downfall in a country, with free speech comes abuse, someone could use it as a tool against the Germans and brainwash people with anti-German ideas, like the garbage that came from the West, liberal democracy, tolerance, xenophilia and the like. I don't give a squat about free speech, I only want pro-German speech in this country. Anything that is detrminetal to German nationalism should be censored and banned period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    Isn't there a bit more free speech in the FRG than in the GDR?
    There is more free speech in general, indeed, but many very important issues are a big taboo. We can criticize Bush, the Pope, Schröder etc. - but just criticize the Turks that rape German girls...not to mention calls to rape and murder Germans @ Youtube is not prohibied (just make a post you dislike Jews at YT)...
    Lately a Turk openly called for a gassing of Germans, this, of course, did not lead to a punishment according to "anti-discrimination laws".
    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    At least in post-communist Romania, there is more democracy than in the communist era.
    Still this more in freedom of speech is wortless since nationalism and ethnic preservation are seen as crimes - like overhere.
    I give an example:
    10 Festnahmen nach Tätlichkeiten am Hauptbahnhof

    Fürth (ots) - Sechs Verletzte und 10 Festgenommene sind die Bilanz einer tätlichen Auseinandersetzung am Samstagmorgen, 13.10.2007, im U-Bahnverteiler am Hauptbahnhof.Kurz nach Mitternacht, gegen 00.30 Uhr, waren sechs Männer im Alter von 38 bis 41 Jahren von der Fürther Kirchweih kommend auf dem Weg zum Hauptbahnhof. Bereits am U-Bahnabgang in der Gustav-Schickedanz-Straße wurden sie von mehreren türkischen Jugendlichen angepöbelt. Einer der sechs erhielt auch einen Schlag ins Gesicht, wobei seine Brille zu Bruch ging.

    Die Kirchweihbesucher setzten ihren Weg zu den Bahngleisen fort, um dort angekommen feststellen zu müssen, dass ihr Zug nicht fuhr. Auf dem Rückweg durch den U-Bahnverteiler zu den Taxenstandplätzen vor dem Bahnhof, wurden sie erneut, diesmal von etwa 30 Jugendlichen beleidigt und tätlich mit Faustschlägen und Fußtritten angegriffen.

    Alle sechs Männer wurden verletzt, zwei von ihnen mussten ins Krankenhaus eingeliefert werden. Die Jugendlichen flüchteten nach dem Vorfall in Richtung Fürther Südstadt. Dort konnten noch zehn von ihnen im Alter zwischen 15 und 18 Jahren festgenommen werden. Zur Klärung des Geschehensablaufes hat die Fürther Polizei die Ermittlungen aufgenommen.
    ./.Michael Gengler
    Polizeipresse: Polizeipräsidium Mittelfranken - POL-MFR: (2230): 10 Festnahmen nach Tätlichkeiten am Hauptbahnhof

    Und nun die politisch korreckte Version:

    Fürth - Sechs Verletzte und zehn Festgenommene sind die Bilanz einer tätlichen Auseinandersetzung am Samstagmorgen, 13. Oktober 2007, im U-Bahnverteiler am Hauptbahnhof.

    Kurz nach Mitternacht, gegen 0.30 Uhr, waren sechs Männer im Alter von 38 bis 41 Jahren von der Fürther Kirchweih kommend auf dem Weg zum Hauptbahnhof. Bereits am U-Bahnabgang in der Gustav-Schickedanz-Straße wurden sie von mehreren Jugendlichen angepöbelt. Einer der sechs erhielt auch einen Schlag ins Gesicht, wobei seine Brille zu Bruch ging.

    Die Kirchweihbesucher setzten ihren Weg zu den Bahngleisen fort, um, dort angekommen, feststellen zu müssen, dass ihr Zug nicht fuhr. Auf dem Rückweg durch den U-Bahnverteiler zu den Taxenstandplätzen vor dem Bahnhof, wurden sie erneut, diesmal von etwa 30 Jugendlichen, beleidigt und tätlich mit Faustschlägen und Fußtritten angegriffen.

    Alle sechs Männer wurden verletzt, zwei von ihnen mussten ins Krankenhaus eingeliefert werden. Die Jugendlichen flüchteten nach dem Vorfall in Richtung Fürther Südstadt. Dort konnten noch zehn von ihnen im Alter zwischen 15 und 18 Jahren festgenommen werden. Zur Klärung des Geschehensablaufes hat die Fürther Polizei die Ermittlungen aufgenommen
    Zehn Festnahmen nach Tätlichkeiten am Hauptbahnhof

    The police report says: 30 Turks attacked 6 Gemans and injured them - media says: 30 youths attacked 6 persons...

    Police was criticized for publishing who the offenders were...

    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    Free speech wouldn't be the biggest problem in a PC state if the "correct" politics was pro-German in my view.
    How would free speech be a problem anyway?
    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    Because you can change forms of governments in history, but if the ethnicity is destroyed, everything about preservation is lost. The German colonies in Peru may have preserved the language and folk culture, but they are mixed with mestizos, so that ca't be called truly preservation.
    I am well aware of this - we now are colonialized by foreigners whose culture and genes will be dominant if the current trend continues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    I think it's possible. The Third Reich was an example: it was ethnically homogenous, but freedoms were cut.
    It was a despotism that did not care for ethnic preservation as self-purpose but to pursue an imperialistic policy. Not to mention there were more Germans living before than after the war...
    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    In other words, you prefer the German nation to die if there is no free speech?
    The German nation dies and we have no free speech - I do not see whereever I cheered that.
    If Germanics themselves do not want to be preserved, they do not deserve to live. I do not think a despotic form of government can enforce any preservation - either people can be convinced to do it, or want it themselves, or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    Giving free speech to the masses is dangerous, because the masses are stupid and influentiable and individuals can take advantage of that.
    That's absolutely not true. If people would be informed properly, would be educated properly, would be encouraged to educate themselves accuratly, if people would not have to fear to be punished for telling the truth, we would be not in this mess we are today.
    Politics and media is in the hands of a minority, this minority decides over what is right, and what is wrong, what is democratic, and what not...
    E.g. if Germans would have had the chance to vote over the Lisbon treaty, they would have said "No", if they would have had a chance to vote for or against the € currreny, a majority would have voted for "No", like the Danes and Swedes did. That's why we never are allowed to vote in pebiscites.
    I am a conservative republican, I dislike this attitude of slaves like you show it, a citizen has rights and duties and has to act responsible. No state can enforce this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    And don't tell me that free speech doesn't necessarily mean mob rule, because if you allow certain kind of speech, it influences the people, especially the youth which is susceptible to new and noncomformist ideas.
    We need education and information that makes responsible citizens. We have the rule of mob these days because we let it happen. I have leftist-liberal parents, I was on a Catholic grammar school, later at a state run grammar school - I learnt everything but thinking for my own there. Yet I refuse this political order categorically. Why? Because I think for myself and draw conclusions out of facts. I am none of these happy slaves that think we live in freedom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    Free speech brings downfall in a country, with free speech comes abuse, someone could use it as a tool against the Germans and brainwash people with anti-German ideas, like the garbage that came from the West, liberal democracy, tolerance, xenophilia and the like.
    Wrong. We are not in this mess today because of free speech, but because of the lack of it. We do not have a choice in elections, we are indoctrinated (diversity is strength...), we a misled and media is censored.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    "If you don't read the newspaper you are not informed. If you read the newspaper you are misinformed."
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    I don't give a squat about free speech,
    So you are not interested in an open debate - not interested in studying all possibilities, in considering a pro and contra? Welcome to the FRG...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    I only want pro-German speech in this country.
    And who decides what is pro-Germanic, and what not? You?
    You lack basic knowledge of our nation and tend to replace knowledge with ideology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    Anything that is detrminetal to German nationalism should be censored and banned period.
    I do not think this is the right way. I do not want to see the current despotism being replaced by just another one. I can rebut anti-national nonsense easily, I do not need laws to enforce my opinion.
    When men cease to fight — they cease to be — Men.
    “Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves.” Brendan Behan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aptrgangr View Post
    That's absolutely not true. If people would be informed properly, would be educated properly, would be encouraged to educate themselves accuratly, if people would not have to fear to be punished for telling the truth, we would be not in this mess we are today.
    Politics and media is in the hands of a minority, this minority decides over what is right, and what is wrong, what is democratic, and what not...
    E.g. if Germans would have had the chance to vote over the Lisbon treaty, they would have said "No", if they would have had a chance to vote for or against the € currreny, a majority would have voted for "No", like the Danes and Swedes did. That's why we never are allowed to vote in pebiscites.
    I am a conservative republican, I dislike this attitude of slaves like you show it, a citizen has rights and duties and has to act responsible. No state can enforce this.

    We need education and information that makes responsible citizens. We have the rule of mob these days because we let it happen. I have leftist-liberal parents, I was on a Catholic gramamr school, later at a state run grammar school - I learnt everything but thinking for my own there. Yet I refuse this political order categorically. Why? Because I think for myself and draw conclusions out of facts. I am none of these happy slaves that think we live in freedom.
    "Educated properly" by your own definition. By the definition of the BRD, educated properly is something else. And this is exactly why freedom of speech is dangerous. People have a say, but what they vote depends on how they are educated. The Danes and Swedes are more free than the Germans and yet Scandinavia is one of the most xenophilic region in Europe, with many Muslim immigrants. In Sweden I heard there is even a NS party which runs legally, but few vote for it.

    Wrong. We are not in this mess today because of free speech, but because of the lack of it. We do not have a choice in elections, we are indoctrinated (diversity is strength...), we a misled and media is censored.
    No, we don't need free speech to oppose a system, we could go out on the streets, but we don't, instead we vote for the mainstream parties.

    So you are not interested in an open debate - not interested in studying all possibilities, in considering a pro and contra? Welcome to the FRG...
    Open debates are less important to me than the German nation. The FRG is not a problem because it doesn't allow open debates, it's a problem because it is anti-German and pro-foreigner. I wouldn't mind at all if a pro-German system censored anti-German views and didn't allow open debates with them.

    And who decides what is pro-Germanic, and what not? You?
    Obviously not me, the socialist leaders would.

    You lack basic knowledge of our nation and tend to replace knowledge with ideology.
    Says someone who was indoctrinated with BRD "values". eyes:

    I do not think this is the right way. I do not want to see the current despotism being replaced by just another one. I can rebut anti-national nonsense easily, I do not need laws to enforce my opinion.
    The problem isn't despotism, the problem is that the current system is anti-German and bans pro-German speech and pro-German parties, if it were pro-German there would be no problem with limiting anti-German speech, banning anti-German parties and more. I am pro-German, I don't care about idealistic concepts of being able to say whatever you want for whatever price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    "Educated properly" by your own definition.
    This would be a big step into the right direction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    By the definition of the BRD, educated properly is something else.
    As if I would not know this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    And this is exactly why freedom of speech is dangerous.
    Freedom of speech is dangerous for liars, cheaters, criminals and communists.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    People have a say, but what they vote depends on how they are educated.
    Well, if they are informed and given a choice there is no need to worry much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    The Danes and Swedes are more free than the Germans and yet Scandinavia is one of the most xenophilic region in Europe, with many Muslim immigrants. In Sweden I heard there is even a NS party which runs legally, but few vote for it.
    Undoubetly the Scandinavian media is no way less censored than ours' is, the only difference is revisionism is not outlawed. But Merkel wants them to make it illegal too...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    No, we don't need free speech to oppose a system, we could go out on the streets, but we don't, instead we vote for the mainstream parties.
    Oh come on - what happens when nationalists demonstrate and leftists throw rocks and bottles? Media reports about poor counter-demonstrants that were attacked by evil Neo-Nazis...
    The reason why mainsteam parties get votes is the lack of freedom of speech, the lack of reason. And fear. People fear to speak up openly. Governments and parties in liberal democracies are not bound to peoples' opinions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    Open debates are less important to me than the German nation.
    The reason why the German nation is going down is the lack of open debates and confident citizens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    The FRG is not a problem because it doesn't allow open debates, it's a problem because it is anti-German and pro-foreigner.
    It can push forward it's anti-German and pro-immigration policy because it has not to fear any opposition because almost all media is in it's hands and noone dares to speak against it. A German political dissident is punished more severely than a Turkish rapist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    I wouldn't mind at all if a pro-German system censored anti-German views and didn't allow open debates with them.
    Despotisms always inherit the danger of being pharisaic. Very soon a certain clique of people would make their views about Germany obligatory for others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    Obviously not me, the socialist leaders would.
    The FRG is semi-socialistic, I do not see any benefit for us in a worn-out ideology..
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    Says someone who was indoctrinated with BRD "values". eyes:
    Interesting, you always come up with this claim. Post evidence for this claim!
    You remind me of my teacher I had in social studies - a hardore communist. She gave me bad marks for making "no constructive remarks". Of course, anything she did not like to hear was "not constructive". Rebutting commies does not cash out in the FRG.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    The problem isn't despotism, the problem is that the current system is anti-German and bans pro-German speech and pro-German parties, if it were pro-German there would be no problem with limiting anti-German speech, banning anti-German parties and more.
    The problem IS despotism. The current regime is like you described - and that's why I hate it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    I am pro-German, I don't care about idealistic concepts of being able to say whatever you want for whatever price.
    And if the price is freedom and sovereignity?
    When men cease to fight — they cease to be — Men.
    “Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves.” Brendan Behan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    I think it's possible. The Third Reich was an example: it was ethnically homogenous, but freedoms were cut.
    National Socialism is based on imperialism, racism and hatred for others, its policies were to extend itself and exterminate the "inferior races". Ethnic homogenity was not truly one of its primary goals, because it accepted children from Slavic countries with blond hair and blue eyes who looked "Aryan" enough. National socialists were racists, not nationalists. Hitler sent millions of Germans, including women and children to die in the war and refused to capitulate, so he preferred the Germans to die along with his megalomaniac dream.


    Die Sonne scheint noch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aptrgangr View Post
    How would free speech be a problem anyway?
    My mistake, I meant to say: "The lack of free speech wouldn't be the biggest problem in a PC state if the "correct" politics was pro-German in my view."

    The German nation dies and we have no free speech - I do not see whereever I cheered that.
    If Germanics themselves do not want to be preserved, they do not deserve to live. I do not think a despotic form of government can enforce any preservation - either people can be convinced to do it, or want it themselves, or not.
    I can see your points, I value free speech as well, but I value our preservation more. The Germans went through many unpleasant events in their history and managed to rise up and continue nevertheless. There is no true free speech now in Europe, and I'm sorry to be pessimistic, but it looks like we will have to find a way to preserve each of our heritages without free speech. The only Germanic country with significant free speech left is the USA.

    (Anyway, I'm going to split this into a new topic since it isn't strictly about GDR and FRG anymore.)

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    The only Germanic country with significant free speech left is the USA.


    The US doesn't really have free speech in practice. The media corproations are all under the control of multiculturalists with the same mindset. They slant media coverage of issues & events, & their editorial pages read as though they were written by the same person. Most politicians regardless of part affilliation take the same position on the major social issues, with the result that regardless of who controls the White House, you can be persecuted (investigated & arrested with extreme force) for political reasons tied to what you have said & written. There are different rules for different people. Negroes for example are allowed to threaten racial violence without impunity. But Whites can be prosecuted to the full extent of the law by the Feds & by some states for burning a cross on private land. An it is now a federal offense for Whites to display a noose. The reason for restricitng free speech is to prevent discusions of certain issues - race & immigration of non-Europids - so that the US can continue down it's path to multiracial hell unabated. So I say real unrestricted free speech is essential for Germanic preservation because the restriction of free speech, which means the absolute ban on discusions of race in a few countries, is the main weapon being used in our planned extinction.

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