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Thread: Is Free Speech Essential to Germanic Preservation?

  1. #11
    Senior Member DanseMacabre's Avatar
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    Unrestricted free speech in a nationalist state is not essential. The people destroying our Germanic nations do not allow us true free speech. So if we gain power why the hel would we allow it to them? Free speech that is contructive should be allowed. Speech that is destructive should not. I doubt the founders of the U.S. intended that free speech be used to bash America and spread multiculturalist propaganda. It was intended to be used to constructively critisize the state.

    Today, foreigners can come to our country burn our flag, insult our nation, demand land back that we "stole" and they are protected by free speech. Now does anybody honestly believe this is what the founders had in mind? I support constructive pro-American free speech.
    “Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people, a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs-Jon Jay, Federalist Papers

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aptrgangr View Post
    Freedom of speech is dangerous for liars, cheaters, criminals and communists.
    LOL. If only it were that simple. Freedom of speech is dangerous for German nationalists because it means giving everyone the right to say anything, including the enemies of German nationalism.

    Well, if they are informed and given a choice there is no need to worry much.
    If, if, if. If you let the anti-Germans have free speech, they will surely "inform" aka delude the masses and they will not always make the right choice.

    Oh come on - what happens when nationalists demonstrate and leftists throw rocks and bottles? Media reports about poor counter-demonstrants that were attacked by evil Neo-Nazis...
    I know very well what happens, as I regularly go to protests and demonstrations in my area. And you know something? I don't give a squat about the media.
    How many significant changes do you think happened peacefully, with nice and fuzzy media propaganda and people democratically voting for a new party? eyes:

    The reason why mainsteam parties get votes is the lack of freedom of speech, the lack of reason. And fear. People fear to speak up openly. Governments and parties in liberal democracies are not bound to peoples' opinions.
    See above. Are you really hoping that a change would happen because of people voting democratically for a party? That's a sign of BRD brainwashing, it's not only the leading parties that are problematic, it's the whole BRD!

    The reason why the German nation is going down is the lack of open debates and confident citizens.

    It can push forward it's anti-German and pro-immigration policy because it has not to fear any opposition because almost all media is in it's hands and noone dares to speak against it. A German political dissident is punished more severely than a Turkish rapist.
    And this precisely is proof that restricting the freedom of speech of your enemy is effective. Only that the wrong people have the power, if it were German nationalists who restricted the free speech of anti-Germans, then we wouldn't have to worry.

    Despotisms always inherit the danger of being pharisaic. Very soon a certain clique of people would make their views about Germany obligatory for others.
    Of course, that's why a pro-German dictator, to make his pro-German views obligatory would be ideal.

    The FRG is semi-socialistic, I do not see any benefit for us in a worn-out ideology..
    LOL, the FRG has nothing to do with socialism, in fact, the only party which still has something to do with it, Die Linke, are being monitored by the government. The FRG adopts the Western model, not socialism. The GDR was socialist, not the FRG.

    Interesting, you always come up with this claim. Post evidence for this claim!
    I already mentioned it above, your belief that we need freedom for all, and even tolerate anti-German opinions for the sake of open debates. eyes: That's what the FRG preaches in theory, freedom of speech, freedom of association, "values" characteristics of Western democracies which have ruined nationalism. Your belief that a change can be done through democratic elections and voting for who kn ows which party. You might oppose what the FRG is de facto, but you support what it is de jure, so you are indoctrinated with its "values".

    You remind me of my teacher I had in social studies - a hardore communist. She gave me bad marks for making "no constructive remarks". Of course, anything she did not like to hear was "not constructive". Rebutting commies does not cash out in the FRG.
    So why are the communists of the left party monitored then? Why is the government pestering the FDJ? Why did the FRG leaders refuse unification of Germany when the SED proposed it, just because they didn't want a strong communist party? Because of its pro-communist ideology? eyes:

    The problem IS despotism. The current regime is like you described - and that's why I hate it.
    And like I said, it should be hated because it persecutes German nationalists, not because it doesn't allow freedom. Aren't you a nationalist? Then why would you care if anti-German opinions were banned? Is the expression of anti-German opinions so important to you, that you want it to be equal with the expression of pro-German opinions, and the anti-Germans given free speech? Why the f*ck should we give free speech to the enemy? So it can have leeway to attack us?

    And if the price is freedom and sovereignity?
    It's not even a price to pay for me for me, because I don't want freedom, I want a pro-German state.

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    Senior Member Aptrgangr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    My mistake, I meant to say: "The lack of free speech wouldn't be the biggest problem in a PC state if the "correct" politics was pro-German in my view."
    Die herrschenden Gedanken sind die Gedanken der Herrschenden.
    (The regent thoughts are the thoughts of the regents).
    Of course an anti-multiculturalist despotism would be preverable, still it would be a despotism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    I can see your points, I value free speech as well, but I value our preservation more.
    How can preservation be achieved when there is no freedom of speech?
    How could an enforced preservationist movement - I doubt this can exist anyway - look like?
    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    The Germans went through many unpleasant events in their history and managed to rise up and continue nevertheless.
    That's true - but tody's situation here is incomparable to other historical happenings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    There is no true free speech now in Europe, and I'm sorry to be pessimistic, but it looks like we will have to find a way to preserve each of our heritages without free speech.
    Obviously.
    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    The only Germanic country with significant free speech left is the USA.
    Just go and propose a "white history month" or so overthere...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin
    LOL. If only it were that simple. Freedom of speech is dangerous for German nationalists because it means giving everyone the right to say anything, including the enemies of German nationalism.
    Freedom of speech is essential since it allows to rebut any nonsense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin
    If, if, if. If you let the anti-Germans have free speech, they will surely "inform" aka delude the masses and they will not always make the right choice.
    Free speech is for all - I surely have no plan to allow criminal organizations such as the "Anti-Germans" (which, BTW, are Communists) to take over any politial power. That's two different pairs of shoes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin
    I know very well what happens, as I regularly go to protests and demonstrations in my area. And you know something? I don't give a squat about the media.
    How many significant changes do you think happened peacefully, with nice and fuzzy media propaganda and people democratically voting for a new party? eyes:
    Convincing people with arguments is a difficult task, indeed, by why not?
    How would your enforced Germanic heritage policy look like? Like the GDR?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin
    See above. Are you really hoping that a change would happen because of people voting democratically for a party? That's a sign of BRD brainwashing, it's not only the leading parties that are problematic, it's the whole BRD!
    We have no democracy in the FRG, that's why I do not hope for any good election results. If the NPD would get good electoral results in federal polls, it would be outlawed very quickly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin
    And this precisely is proof that restricting the freedom of speech of your enemy is effective. Only that the wrong people have the power, if it were German nationalists who restricted the free speech of anti-Germans, then we wouldn't have to worry.
    And how do you propose to make a regime change? There won't be any political improvement if people do not start to inform themselves and start reading dissident and critical media.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin
    Of course, that's why a pro-German dictator, to make his pro-German views obligatory would be ideal.
    A pro-German dictator - who could this be? You? Jäger?
    A dictator quickly would start to decide his private opinions about Germany, Germanics etc have to be obligatory for all, and that wouldn't lead to positive results.
    A government needs control.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin
    LOL, the FRG has nothing to do with socialism, in fact, the only party which still has something to do with it, Die Linke, are being monitored by the government. The FRG adopts the Western model, not socialism. The GDR was socialist, not the FRG.
    As soon as the ratio of government expenditures to gross national product exceeds the mark of 40% we have socialism. FRG currently has a rate of 43%.
    This, and the cultural Marxism of the 68ers movement make the FRG socialistic, I said semi-socialistc before since there is a liberal open-market policy, which is not so typical for classic socialistic states.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin
    I already mentioned it above, your belief that we need freedom for all, and even tolerate anti-German opinions for the sake of open debates. eyes: That's what the FRG preaches in theory, freedom of speech, freedom of association, "values" characteristics of Western democracies which have ruined nationalism. Your belief that a change can be done through democratic elections and voting for who kn ows which party.
    I say we need free speech to awake our people and to make them to side with us. If you think there is another way - please explain how to do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin
    You might oppose what the FRG is de facto, but you support what it is de jure, so you are indoctrinated with its "values".
    That's hilarious - I just loathe the idea of having a nation full of subjects. I prefer mature citizens that can make decisons and have a choice- so it is you being ideologically closer to the FRG than me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin
    So why are the communists of the left party monitored then? Why is the government pestering the FDJ? Why did the FRG leaders refuse unification of Germany when the SED proposed it, just because they didn't want a strong communist party? Because of its pro-communist ideology? eyes:
    This party is monitored because there are several supporters of common (not political) crime - that's all. Many federal states in eastern/middle Germany are co-ruled by Die Linke. They undoubetly are conform to the FRG.
    The reason why there was no coperation with SED is following: a Soviet lackey always would have foiled US/EU/UN/FRG decisions...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin
    And like I said, it should be hated because it persecutes German nationalists, not because it doesn't allow freedom.
    The lack of freedom leads to a persecution of dissidents. A lack of seperated powers leads to an absolutistic form of governing that can't be contested democratically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Franklin
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."


    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin
    Aren't you a nationalist? Then why would you care if anti-German opinions were banned?
    Anti-German actions and policy must be banned - I just want avoid any opinion criticizing the government woul dbe labelled as "anti-German".
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin
    Is the expression of anti-German opinions so important to you, that you want it to be equal with the expression of pro-German opinions, and the anti-Germans given free speech? Why the f*ck should we give free speech to the enemy? So it can have leeway to attack us?
    I see myself capable to rebut any nonsense. A society where free speech and an objective information exist does not have to fear any opposing opinions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin
    It's not even a price to pay for me for me, because I don't want freedom, I want a pro-German state.
    Without freedom, without a majority of people supporting your ideal, you won't achieve anything.
    You can't tell me you have some tank divisions in petto that are ready for a coup d'etat.
    When men cease to fight — they cease to be — Men.
    “Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves.” Brendan Behan

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    Senior Member MockTurtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    The big question is, is free speech really necessary for German preservation?
    Actually, I think the real question is not about 'free speech' but instead about the actual 'power of speech' -- that is, its concrete impact on society. In the US today we might have considerably more 'free speech' than other Western countries, but the reason that we haven't made any positive impact with it is because the people who control our major media have very specific ideas that they are sympathetic towards. So, even though theoretically there is a relatively high degree of 'free speech', the type of speech that can have any serious impact on society is largely predetermined by the agenda of those who are most influential in the avenues of communication.

    What's the point of just having 'free speech' when only very limited forms of speech have the potential to create any possible change or tangible effect in the first place? Why have 'speech' that doesn't mean anything?


    Another question, what's more important, free speech or ethnic homogenity?
    Ethnic homogeneity, without a shred of doubt. I suspect that, in the future world that is unfolding, any Germanic/Nordish community around the globe that managed to actually achieve a serious state of homogeneity would probably have to take at least some measures to prevent negative cultural influence and propaganda. That's partly how we got into this mess, because we let troublemakers take over our media apparatus and convince us that 'tolerance' and 'diversity' are unqualified virtues and that 'racism' is the ultimate evil.

    The Third Reich might not have had complete 'free speech' as most people in the US understand this concept, but this was because measures had to be taken in the larger interests of the nation collectively.

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    I put the posts about the "White Rose" in a new thread. Follow it here please:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=8319

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    Senior Member Idis's Avatar
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    I don't see how Germanic preservation would be possible without free speech. First and foremost because Germanic preservation is not an exact science. We have different Germanic cultures with different histories and psychologies, for example the Northern Germans are colder while the Southern Germans have their "gaudi". Which is the "correct" Germanic culture, which should be preserved? There is no universal pattern. And can we really force people to preserve their heritage and have children? There are Germanics who unfortunately don't find value in their culture and don't wish to preserve it, not consciously at least. But force, bans and censorship is not going to make them love their heritage more, on the contrary. We can teach our people and bring arguments in our favor, help them "see the light". If even then, there will be those who refuse to see it, then there is not much more we can do. Certain people shouldn't have children ideally, as they would breed dysfunctional families. Children need to be wanted, loved and nurtured.

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    Ideally yes, but it is not an absolute necessity.

    All ethnic Germanic folk & their cultures should be preserved. If some don't want this they shouldn't ruin it for the rest of us.
    Our beauty is our power, our strength. We can’t allow them to change us, to lessen us. I will never grant them that satisfaction, and neither should you!

    White Oleander

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    Yes, freedom of speech is essential to achieve Germanic preservation in the long run. Even temporary restrictions on speech could take their toll on our future. We can see it nowadays, and compare to even the generations of our grandparents. Much of what used to be common sense and commonplace for them is today considered outdated, even racist or downright offensive. Not being able to express an idea gradually leads to ostracism and ultimately, death. A slow and gradual death, for sure, but still death.

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    Giving free speech to the masses is dangerous, because the masses are stupid and influentiable and individuals can take advantage of that. And don't tell me that free speech doesn't necessarily mean mob rule, because if you allow certain kind of speech, it influences the people, especially the youth which is susceptible to new and noncomformist ideas. Free speech brings downfall in a country, with free speech comes abuse, someone could use it as a tool against the Germans and brainwash people with anti-German ideas, like the garbage that came from the West, liberal democracy, tolerance, xenophilia and the like. I don't give a squat about free speech, I only want pro-German speech in this country. Anything that is detrminetal to German nationalism should be censored and banned period.
    I'm sorry, Bärin, but when I read stuff like this ^ I realise why we're in our current plight.

    If Germany ever becomes a free-speech society again (..as I sincerely hope!) you would throw it all away overnight. The sort of dictatorship you are advocating has not served Germany well in the past and you cannot swap one form of censorship for another to suit your own political views.

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    Senior Member Ravenrune's Avatar
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    It should be important to any society which claims to be unbiased and just.

    ---------------------

    The problem I see with the usual understanding of the idea of "free speech" is that it can become compromised and made into a fraud! You get people yelling about "Free Speech" and then someone says something they don't like and they shut them down!


    I would be for 100% true "free speech" I think.

    However we have a world (in the western nations... and I'm sure in religious Muslim regions...and in China , etc) where we say we uphold free speech but then Amazon can ban and delete countless books questioning the alleged deliberate and planned "Holocaust" based on a faulty historical Kangaroo Court at Nuremberg after WWII.

    If you can't even say the idea claiming that "trial" was false justice (not justice but "victor's justice") and everything we allegedly think about WWII, Germany, the so-called "Nazis", the "Holocaust" is thus biased by a false justice ...then there is no "free speech" at all!


    I can say the sky is green all I want and people can judge that for themselves and claim I'm wrong and I won't go to jail. Yet if I say there were no deliberate mass gassings in internment camps by Germany in WWII, I would be automatically called a racist, Nazi apologist, anti-semite, evil, terrible, heretic, witch! (and not one single person would read one sentence of information regarding this idea). The fact that so many people are brainwashed to have this automatic reaction should show to any real thinking person that there is a problem here. However, I think I'm the one pointing out that the sky is blue...and everyone is saying I'm wrong an it is green! Galileo said that Venus had a crescent at times and this was just one problem poking against the idea of reality back then (ie the Earth-centred model of the Cosmos supported by the authority then). He could even show authorities this in his telescope (and other things) and they could not overcome the force of having to stick with the status quo!


    If I say that the British and USA dropped something like 2 million tons of bombs on Germany in WWII versus around 75,000 tons of bombs Germany dropped on the UK, is this merely inconvenient historic data or am I bordering on being a "Nazi" apologist for claiming that the Allies dropped far more bombs on Germany than Germany did on them. Hell the Allies dropped pretty much the same tonnage of bombs on France as Germany dropped on the UK ... and France was an Ally LOL.

    Likewise if I say that many "witches" burnt at the stake in past centuries were innocent and condemned due to a false justice based on outlandish claims and false witness stories , am I a "witch" apologist. In this case, most of modern society will side with me because that history is far enough in the past not to affect most typical people's feelings. These people will agree and say:

    "oh yes, people were terribly dumb back then and believed many strange things and accused people of witchcraft who were innocent. Oh, how far we've come as modern intelligent humans to be past that age where we were so easily misguided!"


    They don't even realize how misguided we still are on so many subjects of history.

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