View Poll Results: Is Being Pro-Israel Contradictory to Being Pro-Germanic?

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  • Pro-Israelism is incompatible with pro-Germanicism & European Nationalism.

    68 54.40%
  • Pro-Israelism is compatible with pro-Germanicism & European Nationalism.

    48 38.40%
  • No Opinion.

    9 7.20%
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Thread: Is Being Pro-Israel Contradictory to Being Pro-Germanic?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreis AnnA View Post
    Most of America's problems have to do with Americans. Americans are clearly some of the most treasonous of people against Themselves.
    Right, the american people bring in foreigners for cheap labor. And send our troops off to fight for Israel.

    What's more astonishing is that the only thing that passes for facism in America takes money from Muslims.
    What are you talking about here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortis_in_Arduis View Post
    Well... a lot of Israel's current problems can be attributed to Israel's pro-American stance...
    No Israels current problems stem from the fact they are fighting with arabs over land they're trying to take. And as a matter of fact Israel doesn't have a "pro-American" stance, Israel has a pro-Israel stance. Furthermore, Israel is not hated by Arabs because it is "allied" with America (the reverse is true) it is hated because it has killed thousands of Arabs and muslims.
    “Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people, a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs-Jon Jay, Federalist Papers

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æmeric View Post
    It would seem that the Palestinian problem would have nothing to do with the Muslim problem in Europe, since most Muslims in Europe are not of Palestinian origins. But the conflict in Palestine & surrounding countries, e.g. Lebanon, Iraq, in support of the existance of the Jewish state, has given rise to the major Islamic terrorist organizations in the world.
    That's basically what I oppose: equating Muslim immigration to the West, Israel and islamic terrorism.

    Israel existed before Muslim immigration in our countries (and zionism was elaborated at the end of the 19th century, so the idea of Israel clearly predates the State itself). Muslim immigration was mostly non-related to Israel's existence. And terrorism is directed to the West in general, rather than to Israel or the US (London? Madrid?). And for me, terrorism is born from the roots of the Mohammedan faith (will to convert the whole world) much more than it is born from clear-cut geopolitical interests.


    Quote Originally Posted by Æmeric View Post
    It is also the driving force behind the rise of radical Islam among the Muslim diaspora communities in Europe. It hasn't helped to promote stability in the Muslim nations of the world, which increases the pressures to emigrate to the West. The current drive to impose liberal democracy in the Middle East is to guaranty the longterm security of Israel.
    It is their will to prozelytize which motivates the islamists. But it is better to cry for oppression by the nasty Jews in Israel than to claim they come to the West to convert infidels. And it works: look at the number of stupid lefties who criticize Israel on everything, or the time spent by the UN to blame it. I personnally got no problem in taming the Middle-East by, somehow, encouraging the non-islamists to take power. Good if it helps Israel on the way. If the interests of Israel and the West converge on some points, that's fine with me. On the others, leave Israel alone. But you all seem to think those interests can never merge.

    ***

    By the way:
    Percentage of Americans who think their country is heading in the good direction: 17%
    Percentage of Iraqis who think their country is heading in the good direction: 43%
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanseMacabre View Post
    Right, the american people bring in foreigners for cheap labor. And send our troops off to fight for Israel

    What are you talking about here?..
    Very few people actually fight for America and her people. Those that do are engaged in an Octopus wrestle, and among the creature's arms are a Sunni one, and a Shia one. Those orders came out of Texas, me ol' son. All the family friends of the landed gentry, with names like Bin-Laden. Here's a "Talibani Gone Wild!" news story:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/west_asia/37021.stm

    Now, restate why I should believe the US Army fights for Israel.... btw, wasn't it Billy Carter who took a leak on some gas station wall with some Lybians? And who owns Detroit? And Citi Group? And the National Debt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Æmeric View Post

    How? The Jews are opposed to nationalism among Europeans peoples, in Europe or the settler nations. What did Britain gain from awarding Palestine to the Jews for their own homeland. Or the US from supporting Israel for the last 60-years, support that without Israel couldn't survive. The only gratitude shown has been for the Jewish establishment (finance & media) to insist on the transformation of America into a pluralistic society for the protection of the Jews - monoethnic societies have always eventually expelled the Jews. The only benefit I can think of for supporting Israel is that it provides a homeland for Jews to immigrate to from the US. But we still have more Jews in the US then there are in Israel, many of them the descendents of holocaust () survivors who arrived after WWII. How could being pro-Israel ever translate to being pro-European Nationalism or pro-Germanic? The concepts are historically incompatible.

    Here's a great conspiracy threat to wrap a forum around:

    The heirs of Menachem Begin continue to feed Jews to the Arabs in order to sell NexGen weapons technology to China, while using German U-Boats loaded with nuclear warheaded cruise missles that can destroy Iran and much of the Middle East in one launch. Like, what's that about? And why are many Sunnis happy with the arraignment?

    So much for Jewish supremacism.

  4. #24
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    http://rightweb.irc-online.org/ind/dine/dine.html

    Dine worked behind the scenes as AIPAC director to garner support for U.S. intervention. According to the Wall Street Journal: “When Congress debated going to war with Iraq, the pro-Israel lobby stayed in the background -- but not out of the fight. Leaders of the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee now acknowledge it worked in tandem with the Bush administration to win passage of a resolution authorizing the president to commit U.S. troops to combat. The behind-the-scenes campaign avoided AIPAC's customary high profile in the Capitol and relied instead on activists -- calling sometimes from Israel itself -- to contact lawmakers and build on public endorsements by major Jewish organizations. ‘Yes, we were active,’ says AIPAC Director Thomas Dine. ‘These are the great issues of our time. If you sit on the sidelines, you have no voice.’”
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanseMacabre View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortis_in_Arduis
    Well... a lot of Israel's current problems can be attributed to Israel's pro-American stance...
    No Israels current problems stem from the fact they are fighting with arabs over land they're trying to take. And as a matter of fact Israel doesn't have a "pro-American" stance, Israel has a pro-Israel stance. Furthermore, Israel is not hated by Arabs because it is "allied" with America (the reverse is true) it is hated because it has killed thousands of Arabs and muslims.
    I think that you have been misinformed.

    I never said that "Israels current problems do not stem from the fact they are fighting with arabs over land they're trying to take."

    I never said that "Israel is hated but not because it has killed thousands of Arabs and muslims."

    You, on the other hand, have implied that none of Israel's current problems can be attributed to Israel's pro-American stance.

    Israel does have a pro-American stance by virtue of the foreign aid it accepts, like all the other countries who accept US foreign aid.

    Do you really believe that US foreign aid is simply charitable giving?

    Will you please read this article:

    http://jtf.org/israel/israel.true.zionists.oppose.foreign.aid. htm

    It explains the damage done to Israel by America's 'pro-Israel' lobby from a right-wing Zionist perspective which you have not heard yet because nobody told you about it and explained it to you...

  6. #26
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    Of course it is. Israel is an anti-Germanic state, and actually very anti-German. Any German who supports Israel is a Zionist, not a true German nationalist. Israel wants Germany to keep paying reparations 60 years after the war, even to descendents of Holocaust survivors.
    Zionists, always caused problems for Germany. For example the "German Jew" Julius Meyer, who in the beginning had a seat in the East German parliament. He was a staunch Zionist and his ideas were anti-German, so it wasn't tolerated any longer. He had to flee to the West. That had been the mistake of the first East German politicians, to allow Jewish nationalists in the German parliament. Soon after, they realized the mistake and disallowed them. So, they moved to the West. And today, the Federal Republic has an "emotional" responsibility to commit itself to Israel, always priding itself with how it helped the Jews recover from the Nazi and Communist persecutions.
    Our chancellor is actually a Zionist. In her own words, "Recognition of Israel's right to exist is an unshakable constant of German foreign policy."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    Of course it is. Israel is an anti-Germanic state, and actually very anti-German. Any German who supports Israel is a Zionist, not a true German nationalist. Israel wants Germany to keep paying reparations 60 years after the war, even to descendents of Holocaust survivors.
    Zionists, always caused problems for Germany. For example the "German Jew" Julius Meyer, who in the beginning had a seat in the East German parliament. He was a staunch Zionist and his ideas were anti-German, so it wasn't tolerated any longer. He had to flee to the West. That had been the mistake of the first East German politicians, to allow Jewish nationalists in the German parliament. Soon after, they realized the mistake and disallowed them. So, they moved to the West. And today, the Federal Republic has an "emotional" responsibility to commit itself to Israel, always priding itself with how it helped the Jews recover from the Nazi and Communist persecutions.
    Our chancellor is actually a Zionist. In her own words, "Recognition of Israel's right to exist is an unshakable constant of German foreign policy."


    Capitalists and socialists in Europe will support their ideological brothers and for most of Europe today, that means the establishment in Israel, rather than the nationalists in Israel who are just as marginalised as we are and, actually, are persecuted worse than nationalists in Europe.

    Example http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1128955351951

    They can have their children taken away by the state authorities, they can be locked up, the Stalinist judiciary in Israel makes political persecutions against them, but resistance is growing...

    These people do not want reparations from Germany or money from the US government. The preservationists in Israel are the settler communities.

    Yes, Zionism became very unacceptable in communist countries. Which is why a gentleman called Chaim Ben Pesach had to launch a joyous bombing campaign against Soviet diplomats in the US, and simply had to tear gas a Soviet ballet performance in New York:

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...53C1A961948260

    It worked, pressure mounted, the issue was brought forward and Soviet Jewry were free to move to Israel.

    Of course, you did not know about that, did you?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortis_in_Arduis View Post
    Capitalists and socialists in Europe will support their ideological brothers and for most of Europe today, that means the establishment in Israel, rather than the nationalists in Israel who are just as marginalised as we are and, actually, are persecuted worse than nationalists in Europe.

    Example http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1128955351951

    They can have their children taken away by the state authorities, they can be locked up, the Stalinist judiciary in Israel makes political persecutions against them, but resistance is growing...

    These people do not want reparations from Germany or money from the US government. The preservationists in Israel are the settler communities.
    Those people are in minority, and either way, Israel is built on Palestinian land, it is not Jewish land and any Jew who supports Israel is a Zionist.
    By the way I've yet to see a Jew besides Norman Finkelstein, who didn't demand reparations from Germany or asked us to feel guilty about the Holocaust.
    Are you Judeophile?

    Yes, Zionism became very unacceptable in communist countries. Which is why a gentleman called Chaim Ben Pesach had to launch a joyous bombing campaign against Soviet diplomats in the US, and simply had to tear gas a Soviet ballet performance in New York:

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...53C1A961948260

    It worked, pressure mounted, the issue was brought forward and Soviet Jewry were free to move to Israel.

    Of course, you did not know about that, did you?
    I don't care what Soviets did, East Germany was not Soviet, it was National Communist and it opposed Zionism, it supported the anti-Israeli Arab states instead. East Germany refused to pay reparations to Israel and bow down its head in shame, it was only after Honecker that the traitors in the SED started giving in to Judaic pleas.

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    Being pro-Israel does not necessarily mean "I'm a philosemite" or "I want my government to send my tax dollars to Israel" or "I want my nation's army to fight wars for Israel." I disagree with all of that. I'm pro-Israel in the sense that I wish to cut all aid to Israel, forcing them to grow up, become self-sufficient and take care of themselves without outside help. Their dependence on the US & European countries is as bad for them as it is for us. I'm Zionist in the sense that I believe Jewish people should live in their Jewish state and contribute to their own culture rather than interfering with ours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    Those people are in minority, and either way, Israel is built on Palestinian land, it is not Jewish land and any Jew who supports Israel is a Zionist.
    We are also in a minority. So what are you trying to say?

    Israel was built on land which was either bought or won in conquest, and many Israeli-Arabs are not unhappy about that.

    The Arabs who lived in Palestine never had a Palestinian identity until one was set up in opposition to Zionism, after the Six Day War.

    Palestinians are a younger concept than are Israeli-Jews, and before this, many Palestinian Arabs considered themselves to be Syrian Arabs living in Palestine or had other identities.

    Many Palestinians are the descendent of immigrants who came to work for the Jews who created jobs for them, just as many blacks in South Africa own their livelihoods to whites and moved there to work.

    These people are even move likely to support Islamic fundamentalism, because they are less likely to have a national identity, just like Muslims in Europe.

    Even Yasser Arafat, the secular nationalist, was an Egyptian.

    You did not know that.

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