View Poll Results: Should all cultures be preserved

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  • I care about all the cultures of the world

    45 31.91%
  • I only care about Germanic and European culture

    53 37.59%
  • I only care about Germanic culture

    15 10.64%
  • other

    28 19.86%
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Thread: Should All Cultures Be Preserved?

  1. #21
    Senior Member MockTurtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy
    You made the following assertions:
    I think it's more appropriate to call them "descriptions of reality". I'm not trying to really 'assert' or declare anything, because I don't need to.

    Assert: to state or declare positively and often forcefully or aggressively.

    Describe: to represent or give an account of in words.


    It sounds familiar.
    Okay, and you don't think it applies to human culture?


    I shall try.
    By all means proceed.


    The statement "organisms that fail to creatively respond will not succeed, and they really shouldn't..." is not objective because it is not "of, relating to, or being an object, phenomenon, or condition in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers."
    Sure it is. Any and all observers can witness the failure of certain organisms to adapt to their environment; it is also in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought.

    Moreover, it can also be observed at the level of human culture. The culture of the antebellum South is a good example. The culture of the Old South met its demise when it lost the war, because after that the South was forced to change the economic and social institutions which it relied on. Perhaps some small bits have survived, but the actual 'culture' at the wider societal level was destroyed. This isn't because the culture of the Old South was 'unworthy' of being preserved, only that Southerners weren't able to harmonize the rapid developments taking place in the country with their own way of life.


    I suspect this question needs to be reworded.
    It seems fine as it is, because I have a hunch that you believe there's a 'moral element' to what I'm saying. If I'm wrong you're free to correct me.

  2. #22
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    I only care about Germanic culture. If some tribe or population on another continent becomes extinct, I couldn't care less as it doesn't affect me.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Leof's Avatar
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    I put other because i feel it's natural for some cultures to die out which is natural but in this day and age they are not being replaced by a new culture but instead are being wiped out by a void that wants to turn people into consumers. Culture holds the key to iiving a happy and healthy meaningful life. The keys to becoming a man or a woman. But without that all we have is the most basic level of existence which is to consume. i.e the consumer which human beings have recently become known as in the proggressive pseudo culture. So in that sense all cultures should be preserved because in this day and age they will be replaced by nothing.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle View Post
    I think it's more appropriate to call them "descriptions of reality". I'm not trying to really 'assert' or declare anything, because I don't need to.
    You may have misunderstood which portions of your posts I was addressing.
    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle View Post
    Okay, and you don't think it applies to human culture?
    No, I think it applies to biology.
    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle View Post
    Sure it is. Any and all observers can witness the failure of certain organisms to adapt to their environment; it is also in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought.
    I was not addressing that. I was addressing your use of the word "should" in the following quotations:
    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle
    If they don't keep pace, then they'll fall behind and perish, just as they should.
    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle
    Organisms... that fail to creatively respond will not succeed, and they really shouldn't considering the fact that life doesn't wait or pause for anyone or anything.
    The manner in which you used the word "should" is synonymous with the word "ought" and neither of these statements are an "objective description of what takes place."
    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle View Post
    This isn't because the culture of the Old South was 'unworthy' of being preserved, only that Southerners weren't able to harmonize the rapid developments taking place in the country with their own way of life.
    This contradicts the following statement:
    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle
    Cultures are not preserved simply because they 'deserve' to be preserved, or because they 'ought' to be. They are preserved the same way that individuals and nations are preserved -- through struggle and competition. If they don't keep pace, then they'll fall behind and perish, just as they should.
    Why is the culture of the antebellum South "worthy" of preservation while the cultures of other conquered peoples "should" "fall behind and perish?"

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renwein View Post
    Personally I'm just concerned with seeing the continuum of 'my' culture die. And ideally I'd like to see it revitalized, not just 'preserved', that's for jam-jars and museums
    I couldn't agree more. No offence to the wording of the forum's statement, mind you, but I certainly prefer the notion of continuity as opposed to preservation.

    I'd rather not be calcified, thank you.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Patrioten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allenson View Post
    I couldn't agree more. No offence to the wording of the forum's statement, mind you, but I certainly prefer the notion of continuity as opposed to preservation.

    I'd rather not be calcified, thank you.
    Well to me preservation (as opposed to conservation) is about ensuring that such conditions exist for the culture/people/race that you want to preserve, for it to maintain its foundation, an essentially unaltered core, from which to grow and evolve in a natural manner. Without the kind of massive and unnatural injections of foreign or destructive matter that we experience today, additions that eat away at the core, the essense, of what it is we are trying to preserve, ensuring in turn that it will never ever look, feel or be the same again. Our nations, cultures and people have experienced change in the past, but it has still managed to maintain a sense of continuation, of familiarity and resemblance to what once was. It has not alienated us from our past, from our ancestral heritage. Today's development is something very different from this. It is destroying the very link that exists between the present and the past, we become separated and alienated from our past, from our heritage. The links to the past, the bearers of our heritage, are breaking apart and are changing in a way never before seen. Culturally, mentally and racially. If this continues, we will not recognize what has become of us, and our offspring in turn will not be able to relate to their own heritage.

    Preserving our heritage is about ensuring that those who will come after us will be able to maintain their natural ancestral bonds and continue to act as bearers of our heritage for the next generation, to nurture it, but also to live it as well as revitalizing it from time to time. That, to me, is preservation.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Veratýr's Avatar
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    I care mainly about European cultures, but I also admire the nomadic cultures of Mongolia and Asiatic Russia.

    I have a great dislike of Arab and modern "gangster" black and Mexican culture in the United States, but the cultures of Mexico and Africa are respectable enough in their own territories. I've been to the southern parts of Mexico I was amazed at how different the culture was there than in the United States and some parts of it can even be compared to European/White American culture.

  8. #28
    Senior Member MockTurtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy
    You may have misunderstood which portions of your posts I was addressing.
    I don't think so. You took a few portions of my post and referred to them as 'assertions'. Those are the same portions that I was addressing.

    As you may recall:

    You made the following assertions:

    "If they don't keep pace, then they'll fall behind and perish, just as they should."

    "Organisms... that fail to creatively respond will not succeed, and they really shouldn't considering the fact that life doesn't wait or pause for anyone or anything."
    I don't think there's any misunderstanding here.


    No, I think it applies to biology.
    It's a biological theory, but it has consequences for all forms of human endeavor. Perhaps you've heard of 'evolutionary psychology' or 'sociobiology' as well?

    Humans are biological entities, and their cultures are just an expression of their inner natures.


    I was not addressing that. I was addressing your use of the word "should" in the following quotations:

    [...]

    The manner in which you used the word "should" is synonymous with the word "ought" and neither of these statements are an "objective description of what takes place."
    Hmmm.. I think you're assuming that my use of 'should' carried a bit more significance than it actually did. I wasn't really trying to make an 'appeal' based on objective facts. The use of 'should' just emphasized the importance of the objective facts in shaping and influencing the direction of human affairs.

    In other words, it was more of a tautology than a moral appeal. Hence, organisms or even individual human cultures that don't creatively adapt won't succeed, and they shouldn't considering the fact that life doesn't wait for those who don't adapt. That is, we shouldn't expect them to given that life operates according to different principles.

    Is this clear?


    This contradicts the following statement:
    No, you've just misunderstood it.


    Why is the culture of the antebellum South "worthy" of preservation while the cultures of other conquered peoples "should" "fall behind and perish?"
    Again, you've misunderstood the former post. I didn't say that the culture of the antebellum South was 'worthy' of preservation precisely, I just said that the fact that it perished doesn't necessarily mean that it was 'unworthy' in the sense in which most people understand it. That is, the culture of the Old South might have been 'worthy' in the sense that it possessed many redeeming qualities, and it may have served the needs of those who originally developed it very well. But, ultimately, it didn't last because it lost in the inexorable struggle against competing cultural forms and ways of life that also existed at the same time. So, it also 'should' have perished because it didn't succeed in maintaining itself in the face of opposition and competiton against it.

    Again, this isn't a moral occurrence, which is why I made the point of emphasizing that just because it perished doesn't mean that it was 'without merit'.

    Similarly, there have been many other fascinating and possibly 'redeeming' cultures that have already perished long before the antebellum South culture. As one example, nobody today is seriously worshipping Zeus or Artemis like they were in Ancient times; this doesn't mean that this cultural tradition was completely without merit, only that those who once practiced it didn't succeed in keeping it alive in its 'serious' form.

  9. #29
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    Thank you for the responses. I hope we are not straying too far from the topic.
    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle View Post
    You took a few portions of my post and referred to them as 'assertions'. Those are the same portions that I was addressing.
    I believe they were assertions.
    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle View Post
    I don't think there's any misunderstanding here.
    Do you agree that the following quotations contain assertions and not descriptions?
    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle
    If they don't keep pace, then they'll fall behind and perish, just as they should.
    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle
    Organisms that fail to creatively respond will not succeed, and they really shouldn't considering the fact that life doesn't wait or pause for anyone or anything.
    [...]
    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle View Post
    It's a biological theory, but it has consequences for all forms of human endeavor. Perhaps you've heard of 'evolutionary psychology' or 'sociobiology' as well?
    I have heard of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle View Post
    Humans are biological entities, and their cultures are just an expression of their inner natures.
    I do not believe I have heard anyone say that culture is "just" an expression of humans' inner natures. Will you prove that?
    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle View Post
    I think you're assuming that my use of 'should' carried a bit more significance than it actually did. I wasn't really trying to make an 'appeal' based on objective facts. The use of 'should' just emphasized the importance of the objective facts in shaping and influencing the direction of human affairs.

    In other words, it was more of a tautology than a moral appeal. Hence, organisms or even individual human cultures that don't creatively adapt won't succeed, and they shouldn't considering the fact that life doesn't wait for those who don't adapt. That is, we shouldn't expect them to given that life operates according to different principles.

    Is this clear?
    Neither set of claims was tautological:
    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle
    If they don't keep pace, then they'll fall behind and perish, just as they should.
    The two claims in the preceding statement are not equivalent. They are that "if they don't keep pace, then they'll fall behind and perish..." and "if they don't keep pace, then they should fall behind and perish..."
    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle
    Organisms that fail to creatively respond will not succeed, and they really shouldn't considering the fact that life doesn't wait or pause for anyone or anything.
    Nor are the two claims present in this quotation or that "organisms that fail to creatively respond will not succeed..." and "organisms that fail to creatively respond really shouldn't succeed...", respectively.
    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle View Post
    Again, you've misunderstood the former post. I didn't say that the culture of the antebellum South was 'worthy' of preservation precisely, I just said that the fact that it perished doesn't necessarily mean that it was 'unworthy' in the sense in which most people understand it.
    You said "this isn't because the culture of the Old South was 'unworthy' of being preserved..." and I drew an unsound conclusion. I took it to mean you believed the Old South was not "unworthy" of being preserved.

    Was the Old South "unworthy" of being preserved?
    Quote Originally Posted by MockTurtle View Post
    So, it also 'should' have perished because it didn't succeed in maintaining itself in the face of opposition and competiton against it.
    Are you saying the Old South "should" have perished because it did perish?

    I think it is important in which manner are you using the word "should" in this statement. Will you define it's meaning in the above instance?

  10. #30
    Senior Member SwordOfTheVistula's Avatar
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    I'm in favor of preserving Germanic and Celtic cultures, and also those cultures which are not a threat to Germanic cultures: Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Russian, Polish, Greek, Finnish, Baltic, Vietnamese, Hindu. Cultures which are a threat to Germanic preservation must either be eradicated or defeated to the point that they retreat upon themselves and are no longer a threat to our preservation: Latin, Muslim, Jewish, Gypsy, African
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