View Poll Results: Should "degenerate" art be banned, in your opinion?

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  • Yes, it should be banned.

    43 37.39%
  • No, it shouldn't be banned.

    56 48.70%
  • Other opinion/I want to see the votes.

    16 13.91%
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Thread: Should "Degenerate Art" Be Banned?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Angharad's Avatar
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    Ok, then please explain to me, in a non-provocative manner and without profanity, why this degenerate art is more offensive than the approved Nazi art that I posted. Remember Mondrian was a Dutch protestant.



    Seriously, there was a whole genre of state sponsored art that was nothing but frontal nudity of nice, wholesome Aryan men and women. I agree that I could do without some of the art from the degenerate show, but the state sponsored stuff isn't "high art" either.

    The point is if we start censoring art, who is more likely to be censored, multicultural artists, or pro-Germanic artists? I think you can guess.

    There are a lot of bigger problems with our culture today than art that you don't happen to like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    I agree with you and this also raises the question: what is degenerate art? Does the degenerate lay in what it strictly shows, or in how it's interpreted? Because art is a matter of interpretation too. It was a curious thing that in history class, when we studied the NS era, the guys made comments during break times that Arno Breker and the other NS artists must have had homosexual tendencies because they represented nude men in their art and had a fascination with ancient Greece which tolerated homosexuality. So to them, this kind of art was probably degenerate. :
    Some of the art from the degenerate exhibit is themes of interracial sex. You can surely see why the NS regime would want this suppressed. Other stuff, like the painting in my last post, I seriously have no idea why it was so hated, I personally find it inoffensive.

    I wonder about the NS art myself. Supposedly they had a fascination with Greek and Roman art, because it was supposedly free of degenerate influences from Jewish people. However, the heroic, and as you noted sometimes homoerotic nudes of that era seem lascivious to me. I don't like them any more than I would like a Mapplethorpe photo.

    The suppression of degenerate music makes me wonder too, I personally don't really like atonal music, it is boring, but to ban it outright? As I've said I see a lot of art, and I'd really rather that the art world not be reduced to something akin to Soviet Realism just because people who probably don't even go to museums or support the arts don't like it or understand it.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Geribeetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angharad View Post
    Ok, then please explain to me, in a non-provocative manner and without profanity, why this degenerate art is more offensive than the approved Nazi art that I posted. Remember Mondrian was a Dutch protestant.

    That isn't art, that is geometry. It is an insult to true art to call it such.

    And what exactly does him being a Dutch protestant matter?
    Quote Originally Posted by Angharad View Post
    Seriously, there was a whole genre of state sponsored art that was nothing but frontal nudity of nice, wholesome Aryan men and women. I agree that I could do without some of the art from the degenerate show, but the state sponsored stuff isn't "high art" either.
    Only a modern, sex obsessed liberal would think in such a manner. There is nothing wrong with nudity with no sexual intent. It represents purity. I thought you were supposed to be an art expert? eyes:
    Quote Originally Posted by Angharad View Post
    The point is if we start censoring art, who is more likely to be censored, multicultural artists, or pro-Germanic artists? I think you can guess.
    The modern state already does sense pro-Germanic artists. A null point. We are speaking ideally, not modernly. Nothing can be appropriately applied by a modern government.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angharad View Post
    There are a lot of bigger problems with our culture today than art that you don't happen to like.
    I agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angharad View Post
    I wonder about the NS art myself. Supposedly they had a fascination with Greek and Roman art, because it was supposedly free of degenerate influences from Jewish people. However, the heroic, and as you noted sometimes homoerotic nudes of that era seem lascivious to me. I don't like them any more than I would like a Mapplethorpe photo.
    Homoerotic to whom, you? It wasn't intended for you. It isn't homoerotic for those to whom it was intended and those who can truly understand its meaning.
    Last edited by Siebenbürgerin; Wednesday, October 8th, 2008 at 06:31 PM. Reason: I remove ad gentems against the Dutch people.

  3. #33
    Senior Administrator "Friend of Germanics"
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    I think that art that harms a person or animal in the process of "creation" (an example would be Guillermo Vargas Habacuc's "Eres lo que lees", which featured a starving stray dog), as well as art that instigates to illegal acts and the like should be banned. Other types of art should be allowed. There is art which I find to be anti-art if anything, but I am not obligated to view it or buy it. Publicly subsidizing is another story. Perhaps withdrawing it would restore some sense of aesthetics and the artists would earn sums relatively proportional to the value of their work.

    Obviously, there are types of art which are inappropriate for children and teenagers (explicit sexual motives would be one example). Such exhibitions should be limited to the vieweing of adults. Visual arts should IMO be regulated the same way that television, music, performing arts, etc. are. The problem is, nowadays, that the standards have lowered: for example, violence or sexuality abound in cartoons and other children's programs. These problems must definitely be tackled.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geribeetus View Post
    That isn't art, that is geometry. It is an insult to true art to call it such.

    And what exactly does him being a Dutch protestant matter?
    I agree with you that it isn't art. However compare this modern "art" with like say van Gogh, Rubens and Rembrandt and you will see an ocean of difference.
    Last edited by Siebenbürgerin; Wednesday, October 8th, 2008 at 06:32 PM. Reason: I remove an offensive quote.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Geribeetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GroeneWolf View Post
    I agree with you that it isn't art. However compare this modern "art" with like say van Gogh, Rubens and Rembrandt and you will see an ocean of difference.
    Don't disagree there. But for van Gogh or Rembrandt, who I actually do believe are talented artists, you have to understand what was going on in NS Germany and the connotation of such paintings. While those two may have had good paintings (and I do believe they did) techniques like theirs, specifically those based on attempting to do something 'new', had been destroying European culture since the renaissance. NS Germany didn't need renaissance ideas being spread, else Europe would end back up right where it did after the French revolution.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Ard Ri's Avatar
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    Ban, no. Detest and refuse to sponsor, yes!

    I agree that it shouldn't be banned, but I resent having my tax dollars go to distribute it or show it. Let the lovers of degenerate art plaster it all over their homes and museums, but don't expect me to foot the bill. I detest seeing public buildings "decorated" with some muti-million dollar crap which isn't fit to wipe your muddy shoes on.
    Ideally, an educated public would know enough to reject this pretentious nonsense and refuse to fork over millions for a blank canvas or a poorly executed rendition of some deviant's "naughty bits."

  7. #37
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    I'm thinking sometimes the definition of art in a modern world goes too far. Some Hollywood stars made paintings with their bottoms and it's not a joke. They put their bottoms in paint and sat on the canvas. Another funny experience was a monkey which was made to paint on a canvas and some art critics were struggling to say what the artist wanted to say with that abstract art without knowing it wasn't a modern artist who did it, but a monkey. You'd think nobody buys these things. But some peoples are interested.

  8. #38
    Lost in Melancholia
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    I believe degenerated art should be banned. It´s clear that the opinion about "what is degenerative?" differs from person to person, but it should indebatable that "Dadaism", "absurd art" or "interracial art" are degenerative.

    My personal border-case is Alfred Kubin with some of his paintings. More than this is, for me, too strange to consider it as "art".

    --------
    "The personification of war"



    "Water Ghost"



    "The horror"



    "The black death"



    -------------


    This is beyond the border! I consider it "degenerate art".



    "Road to hell"


    "Judge of your natural character by what you do in your dreams" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  9. #39
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    I don't believe the Nazis banned degenerate Art. They exhibited it as "degenerate Art". It had to be seen in context of Germanic art and so validate the Germanic Art.
    I beleive most Nazis were avid art collectors and probably had "degenerate" work in their collections. Also why bother to destroy work that someone would buy? It may look like rubbish but if someone is offering to pay for it, why complain.
    Work supposedly destroyed is most likely in existence still in a private collection. So far as I know, no degenerate Artist was really persecuted for their art, only for their politics or race etc. Artists like Otto Dix lived comfortably and generally un molested throughout the Reich years.
    The question of Funding was the main issue and it was correct that degenerate artists just had a problem of no funding and no free exhibition. The artists though were free to paint what they wanted in their own homes.
    Nb Kubins work above. There is though much that is similar in the work of Hieronymous Bosch, work that is surreal but no one would think that should be banned

  10. #40
    Senior Member Saxnot's Avatar
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    I think some people here are missing the point. A lot of the degenerate art was specifically designed to destroy and undermine western art. This isn't just my opinion. The founders of Dadaism actually admitted that that was their specific intent. THAT is why Hitler tried to suppress it. It wasn't out of some vague idea of art and decadence. It was an act of self defense. Of course, he may have gone too far, or he may have not. Hitler seemed to have a refined taste in art. Not sure about the rest of the Nazi party. And of course, some of the art that was approved by them wasn't necessarily that great, but it at least tried to defend an aesthetic ideal that dominated western art since the Renaissance, an ideal which is now but a pale memory, something to be despised for being old and traditional. Whatever the merits of modern art, I think we can all agree that genius no longer runs in our society the same way it once did. That is the legacy of modernity.

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