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Thread: Thought on Our Ragnarök-Like Era

  1. #11
    Senior Member Cythraul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
    It's pretty clear to me we are in this stage, perhaps even, sadly, at the beginning of this stage.
    I believe we're far from the beginning. The Kali Yuga probably began around the time of the Abrahamic religions.

    There will be no respect for animals, and also meat eating will start.
    ...we've also been eating meat for a very long time. I find it interesting that meat-eating was once such an alien concept to large cultural groups.

    One of my major interests is researching forgotten civilisations - people who supposedly lived in the Golden Age preceeding the Great Floods of 4-3000 BC. I have concluded that the human race does in fact suffer cycles of rebirth, great ages and ages of decadance.

    There is a train of thought linked to the Alchemists whereby at the beginning of our current cycle we were extremely spiritual and non-material in our make-up. As time has passed, we have grown "denser" - occupying ourselves with matters of the "flesh" rather than more righteous matters of the spirit. A fascinating concept which could hold some merit. We were probably once wiser and more admirable, but orthadox history ridicules this by stating that our current ability for civilisation can not be older than the Pyramids - whilst anyone who has invested time and an open-mind in the matter knows the contrary to be true.
    "If by being a racialist, you mean a man who despises a human being because he belongs to another race, or a man that believes one race is inherently superior to another in civilisation or capability of civilisation, then the answer is emphatically no." - Enoch Powell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cythraul
    I find it interesting that meat-eating was once such an alien concept to large cultural groups.
    Not only meat eating, but also drinking other species' milk, which is considered a major decline and is mentioned as a sign of the Kali Yuga in the Bhagavat Gita (I think) or the Mahabharata.

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    Senior Member Leof's Avatar
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    I don't feel Hindu sources should be used as the primary source on the ages of man. Hinduism is any religion aspired to by the hindu people and has received a great deal of influence from Islam and Buddhism. Vegeterianism is extremely naive and the Hindu people ate meat in the time of the Vedas. Milk drinking I concur on though. Anything that requires cooking to eat is an accustom to the people of the golden age since they did not have fire yet. The golden age came to an end when Prometheus introduced fire to man. Zeus was angered by this and cursed man so that he would take delite in his own destruction. Food such as beans, some grains etc. are far too toxic to be indulged with out fire and even then do not match the dietary needs of human beings and leads to countless complications over time such as epilepsy and obesity.

    Hesiod makes mention that his time was the Iron Age and seems to see any era before or after this era to be favorable. Hesiod lived in 700BC so we have been in the Iron age for at least 3000 years. The era prior to the Iron Age was the bronze age in which this age of man people were still noble and good but were war like. Considering that the Germanic people still followed a culture centered around war as a spiritual act, the remnants of the bronze age were not all forgotten by the time of Rome's apex. My own personal guess is that the Iron age began somewhere around 3000BC and I feel it has at least another 1000-2000 years to go before it has run it's cycle.

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    Senior Member Mazorquero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leof View Post
    The golden age came to an end when Hermes introduced fire to man. Zeus was angered by this and cursed man so that he would take delite in his own destruction.
    Wasn't Prometeus the one who gave us the knowledge of fire? Then he was sentenced to be chained to a rock and an eagle or similar would eat his guts in aeternum (actually until Hercules released him).

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    Senior Member Leof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazorquero View Post
    Wasn't Prometeus the one who gave us the knowledge of fire? Then he was sentenced to be chained to a rock and an eagle or similar would eat his guts in aeternum (actually until Hercules released him).
    Yeah that's a good correction. Hermes is said to have invented fire in some sources but it was Prometheus who stole fire and gave it to man. In retaliation Zeus afflicted man with the trials of hard work and labor similar to the first part of Genesis.

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    Senior Member skyhawk's Avatar
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    I agree with Lyfings view that these ages of doom have been around many times before. It was very prominent in England during and around the time of the English Civil war and later with the birth of the Industrial Revolution. I think it has always been around in some shape or form

    Mazorquero makes a good point with the comparison of the Middle Ages but I agree with LordChaos that the introduction of the nuclear age has the capability of the end of life on earth as we know it and thus it is a far more dangerous age now than in the Middle Ages. The risk of annhililation by error is a enormous danger in its self

    I think the war against terror , as reinvented under Bush et al , will be a long and bloody road that has increased nuclear proliferation globally and the dangers there of
    By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.

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    Here is a quote from Campbell's Primitive Mythology..

    The young Nietzsche, in The Birth of Tragedy, contrasted the
    biblical myth of the Fall in the Garden unfavorably with what he
    took to be the typically Greek heroic and tragic myth of Prome-
    theus. The whole mythology of the Fall with its concept of dis-
    obedience to a higher power, its serpent's lying misrepresentation,
    its seduction, greed, and concupiscence in short, its constellation
    of what he termed "feminine affects" represented for Nietzsche an
    interpretation of human values that could be termed only con-
    temptuous and contemptible; whereas in the bold impiety of the
    Greek Titan representing man's courageous achievement of his
    own cultural and spiritual stature in defiance of the jealous gods
    he saw an essentially masculine worth.

    Since Nietzsche's day we have learned that the fire-theft is not a
    specifically Indo-European mythological motif; nor the idea of the
    Fall specifically biblical. However, it is still true that these two
    represent the poles of the Western World's mythological inherit-
    ance. The Greek Titan, a sublimation of the image of the self-
    reliant, shamanistic trickster, who frequently comes off badly at
    the end of an adventure, is neither condemned in his intransigent
    defiance of Zeus nor mocked as a fool by the Greek playwright,
    but offered, rather, as a tragic pattern of man's relationship to the
    governing powers of the natural universe. Whereas the Bible, in its
    spirit of priestly piety, recognizing equally the tension between
    God and man, stands on the side of God and breaks not only man's
    will but the serpent's too.

    Prometheus knows what he has done for mankind, and shouts it
    in God's teeth. Men, before he taught them, knew no arts but in
    the dark earth burrowed and housed, like ants hi caves. They had
    no calendar until he taught them to know the rising and setting of
    the stars. He gave them numbers, the arts of writing, farming and
    the harnessing of the horse; metallurgy, medicine, divination; yes,
    and the art, even, of making sacrifice to Zeus. In the bold play of
    Aeschylus, Prometheus Bound, we hear the ring of that great Titan's
    defiant challenge:

    In one round sentence, every god I hate
    That injures me who never injured Mm.

    Deem not that I, to win a smile from Jove,
    Will spread a maiden smoothness o'er my soul,
    And importune the foe whom most I hate
    With womanish upliftings of the hands. 62

    In contrast, however, we admire no less the proud though
    humble piety of Job, who, when shown the wonder of the power
    that had dealt with him unjustly, yet made the world, poured
    ashes on his head. "I had heard of thee by the hearing of the ear,
    but now my eyes see thee," Job confessed before his God, "therefore
    I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes." 63

    These two traditions are mixed in the inheritance not only of the
    West but of all civilizations and represent the poles of man's
    spiritual tension: that of the priestly representation of the power
    that shaped the universe as a force beyond human criticism or
    challenge, the power that made the sun and moon, the seas,
    Leviathan, Behemoth, and the mountains, before whom man's
    proper attitude is awe; and, on the other hand, that of the in-
    transigency of the self-sufficient magician, the titan power of the
    shaman, the builder of Babel, careless of God's wrath, who knows
    that he is older, greater, and stronger than the gods. For indeed, it
    is man that has created the gods, whereas the power that created
    the universe is none other than the will that operates in man him-
    self and in man alone has achieved the consciousness of its king-
    dom, power, and glory.

    Zeus, it may be recalled, had taken offense when Prometheus
    had tricked him at the time of the offering of a sacrifice. The Titan,
    having slain a sacrificial bull, filled the stomach of the beast with
    meat for himself and his people, wrapping the bones deceptively
    and attractively in juicy fat; and when he presented these two
    packaged portions to the king of the gods, bidding him choose the
    one he desired, Zeus, deceived, took the portion wrapped in fat.
    Opening which, and finding nothing but bones, Zeus became a
    god of wrath, and to such an absurd degree that he withheld from
    mankind the precious gift of fire. Whereupon Prometheus, man's
    savior, stole it according to one version, from the workshop of
    the lame god of fire and metalwork, Hephaistos; but, according to
    another, from the hearth of Zeus himself, on the summit of
    Olympus. Prometheus carried with him a hollow stalk of narthex,
    which he ignited at the blaze, and then, waving the stalk to keep
    it burning, came running back. Still another version relates that
    Prometheus plucked his fire from the sun. 64 But in any case, Zeus
    took upon him an extreme revenge. For he caused Hephaistos to
    nail the boon-bringer to the highest summit of the Caucasus, drove
    a pillar through his middle in the way of a stake, and sent an eagle
    to eat his liver. What is torn away of the liver in the day grows
    back at night, so that the torture goes on and on. And yet, the
    punishment, presently, will end; for, as Prometheus knows, there
    is a prophecy that one day his chains will fall away of themselves
    and the world-eon of Zeus dissolve.

    The prophecy is the same as that of the Eddie Twilight of the
    Gods, when Loki will lead forth the rugged hosts of Hel:

    Then shall happen what seems great tidings: the Wolf
    shall swallow the sun; and this shall seem to men a great
    harm. Then the other wolf shall seize the moon, and he also
    shall work great ruin; the stars shall vanish from the heavens.
    Then shall come to pass these tidings also: all the earth shall
    tremble so, and the crags, that trees shall be torn up from
    the earth, and the crags fall to ruin; and all fetters and bonds
    shall be broken and rent. . . . The Fenris-Wolf shall ad-
    vance with gaping mouth, and his lower jaw shall be against
    the earth, but the upper against heaven, he would gape yet
    more if there were room for it; fires blaze forth from his eyes
    and nostrils. The Midgard Serpent shall blow venom so that
    he shall sprinkle all the air and water; and he is very terrible,
    and shall be on one side of the Wolf. . . . Then shall the
    Ash of Yggdrasil tremble, and nothing then shall be without
    fear in heaven or on earth. 65

    The binding of the shamans by the Hactcin, by the gods and
    their priests, which commenced with the victory of the neolithic
    over the paleolithic way of life, may perhaps be already terminating
    today in this period of the irreversible transition of society
    from an agricultural to industrial base, when not the piety of the
    planter, bowing humbly before the will of the calendar and the
    gods of rain and sun, but the magic of the laboratory, Hying rocket
    ships where the gods once sat, holds the promise of the boons of
    the future.

    "Could it be possible! This old saint in the forest has not heard
    that God is dead!" 66

    Nietzsche's word was the first pronouncement of the Promethean
    Titan that is now coming unbound within us for the next world
    age. And the priests of the chains of Zeus may well tremble; for
    the bonds are disintegrating of themselves.

    Pages 278-281
    Later,
    -Lyfing

  8. #18
    Senior Member Cythraul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leof View Post
    I don't feel Hindu sources should be used as the primary source on the ages of man. Hinduism is any religion aspired to by the hindu people and has received a great deal of influence from Islam and Buddhism.
    Hinduism is far, far older than Islam, and if my memory serves me correctly, Buddhism is an off-shoot of Hinduism. So the early writings and mythology of Hinduism are the less tainted ones, whereas the more recent ones may have been influenced by Islam. It is my guess that this is why Hindus now often eat some meat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leof View Post
    Vegeterianism is extremely naive... Food such as beans, some grains etc. are far too toxic to be indulged with out fire and even then do not match the dietary needs of human beings and leads to countless complications over time such as epilepsy and obesity.
    I beg to differ. I've been vegan for 4 1/2 years and am in the best shape and health of my life (not today though - I'm off sick). A plant-based diet can and does provide you with everything. I've packed on 2 stone of muscle since going vegan. That is not to say I don't think meat-eating is natural. My diet is based on a protest against cruel industrial farming methods.
    "If by being a racialist, you mean a man who despises a human being because he belongs to another race, or a man that believes one race is inherently superior to another in civilisation or capability of civilisation, then the answer is emphatically no." - Enoch Powell

  9. #19
    Senior Member Leof's Avatar
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    I concur on the Hindu stuff, that's why I mentioned the vedas. The sacred texts that follow over the years progressively show influence from other sources. The eating of greens is natural, just as natural as eating meat. The problem with the typical veggie diet is not the lack of meat so much (if supplemented right) but the increase in foods such as potatos and beans.

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