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Thread: The Working Class 'Has Lower IQ'

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    Senior Member Thrymheim's Avatar
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    The Working Class 'Has Lower IQ'

    The working classes have lower IQs than those from wealthier backgrounds and should not be expected to win places at top universities, an academic has claimed.

    Bruce Charlton, reader in evolutionary psychiatry at Newcastle University, suggested that the low numbers of working-class students at elite universities was the "natural outcome" of IQ differences between classes.

    In a paper shown to the Times Higher Education magazine, Dr Charlton questioned the Government's drive to get more students from poor backgrounds into top universities like Oxford and Cambridge.

    He said: "The UK Government has spent a great deal of time and effort in asserting that universities, especially Oxford and Cambridge, are unfairly excluding people from low social class backgrounds and privileging those from higher social classes.

    "Yet in all this debate a simple and vital fact has been missed: higher social classes have a significantly higher average IQ than lower social classes."
    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20...q-6323e80.html

    So anybody from the working classes want to defend their corner?
    Cattle die, kinsmen die,
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    Senior Member Guntwachar's Avatar
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    Depends probably i did the highest education in the Netherlands(for teenagers), and i went myself to a lower education while my grades were good.
    Simply because i always liked to work with my hands and work outside instead of a office job, so i think i'm from the working class then as my familly is also still i can do the same educations as people from the higher classes.

    I just think these tests mostly dont show how its realy going, a part of the worker class is dumb same as a part of the higher classes is also dumb.
    Who says every person in the working class has a low IQ, who says the people didnt choose themself for those jobs instead of a higher education?
    If christ is the answer then what is the question?

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    Senior Member Angharad's Avatar
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    Personally, I find most people regardless of class to be rather stupid, but maybe I am just hyper-critical.

    Anyway, this article doesn't mention what the "significant" difference was between upper and working class people. If it is only a few IQ points, then the difference is likely all due to environmental factors.

    The working class and upper class kids may be born with similar abilities, but a better diet, access to medical care and /or superior education can all work to give the upper class kid a little bit higher IQ, and possibly the reverse a lower IQ for the working class kid. If it turns out that it is a really big difference, like a standard deviation, then this guy may be on to something. Well, we all know that there are stupid upper class people and brilliant working class people, but if the averages really are dramatic then they need to look at the cause more closely.

    I suspect that if true, the reason that many people end up doing menial labor is that they are stupid, rather than the other way around (which is what I gather is implied from the article). Let's face it--some smart people (like Drim) may prefer to work with their hands, but there are also people out there who can't work with their minds. Some stupid people (like models or athletes) may end up with lots of money anyway, but these are probably the exception.

    It may be possible that upper class people have some genetic superiority that gives them higher IQ's, but I doubt it--if someone is going to assert that they would need to do some top-notch research. Even so, anyone trying to research IQ differences between classes is going to face some pretty heavy criticism. The words "academic suicide" come to mind.

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    This sort of social engineering is wasteful.

    Elitism is wrongful, but the creation of elites is a natural consequence and a good thing.

    What we want is a system similar to some Scandinavian countries where parents/children are given vouchers and a choice of local schools to send their children to. The schools are not allowed to be selective but instead have to compete to attract children to their school.

    Once in, the children are divided into sets according to their ability for each subject they study.

    The Labour government is trying to undermine what meritocracy is left in our education system, by trying to close down the selective grammar schools (where many children from poorer background have been able to excel) and promoting classism, and huge 'mega schools' which parents from a large surrounding mile radius are forced to sent their children to - unless they can afford a private education for their children.

    It is pretty obvious what they are doing is it not? :

    Of course, there will be overall differences between social classes, so I have nothing to say about that really! If IQ tests do not convince the egalitarians then looking at cranial capacities and reaction time testing might! No cultural biases there. Same as racial differences, but yes, 'academic suicide'!!!

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    Senior Member theTasmanian's Avatar
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    well if engineers are working class.....then the people who rely on us engineering types must be dumb and unimaginative as we invent all the machines that make life easy:p
    Tasmanian twice the heads!!.......twice the intelligence!?

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    Senior Member Lichtblick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theTasmanian View Post
    well if engineers are working class.....then the people who rely on us engineering types must be dumb and unimaginative as we invent all the machines that make life easy:p
    You know what working class means and you know that there are enough academic engineers, don't you?


    Back to topic:

    I wouldn't talk that much about classes anymore, so I'll talk about people of lower social level, and yes, I think children of those families have more often a lower IQ than children of educated parents.
    Genetically the level doesn't make any big difference in general in modern societies without caste system or European style nobility (although at least the latter can and did also degenerate quite easily), but intelligence has to be stimulated to develop, so if children can't have a challenging conversation with their parents, find The Sun instead of The Times on the table, sit in front of the TV instead of being read to et cetera they won't evolve too much, I think.

    Of course I'm always talking of tendencies and as today there's more social mobility, more knowledge to gain more easily, we could make those social difference become smaller and smaller, though we regrettably don't or better said we do, but by setting the high level lower.

    I'm in no way a preacher of equality, every community's wellbeing lies in the hands of its elites (that's why I think Fortis_in_Arduis' "anti-elitism is quite worth to think about, not disagreeing with him), but social inequalities are external inequalities and these days unnatural inequalities, thus counterproductive whereas we'd we only cultivate natural inequalities.
    "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible."

    - T. E. Lawrence

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    Senior Member theTasmanian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lichtblick View Post
    I wouldn't talk that much about classes anymore, so I'll talk about people of lower social level, and yes, I think children of those families have more often a lower IQ than children of educated parents.
    Genetically the level doesn't make any big difference in general in modern societies without caste system or European style nobility (although at least the latter can and did also degenerate quite easily), but intelligence has to be stimulated to develop, so if children can't have a challenging conversation with their parents, find The Sun instead of The Times on the table, sit in front of the TV instead of being read to et cetera they won't evolve too much, I think.
    that hits the nail on the head

    IF the working class person have a dumb job that does not need the person to think....say bolting part A to part B then they will most likely not us their brain
    BUT those of the working class that must solve problems of all kind(ok maybe no social problems.....) must use their brains and often fast so its a case of how you were educated as a child and continued in to adulthood
    Tasmanian twice the heads!!.......twice the intelligence!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrymheim View Post
    So anybody from the working classes want to defend their corner?
    I'm very working class by origin. But I don't know if I'd do too well on an IQ test, so maybe I'm not the best person to ask!

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    My Family comes from factory workers and farmers(I will not mention what my dad's family did during prohibition). My parents both have degrees and are at least a standard deviation above the norm IQ wise. My IQ is at least a standard deviation above the norm. Depending on the test it goes from one and a half deviation to over two. My spelling and grammar suck.:p My husband's family is also blue collar and both or his parents are quite bright. He has plenty of intellect to pass on to the kids.

    I am not taking a side in this discussion. I think people get too would up about IQ. IQ seems to be extremely heritable and a lot of environmental things can lower an individuals potential. I have known plenty of bright and dull people. I think higher class people learn how to hide their dullness better than lower class.
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    I descend from farmers and my IQ is high. I have tested it online and offline. It is high enough to join the International High IQ Society but I have no interest to pay any fees for being part of such "clubs". On the Tickle IQ test I scored 144, which is the highest IQ possiblity. Is IQ an accurate means to test intelligence however? Many IQ tests contain questions on mathemathics and someone who has not studied mathemathics is disadvantaged, I believe.


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