View Poll Results: Did the National Socialists abuse the symbols of our Germanic ancestors?

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Thread: Did the National Socialists Misuse the Symbols of Our Germanic Ancestors?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagna View Post
    Only if I use them for the purposes they were intended.


    Indeed.

    No I don't belive so, please read my thread "the Germanic form of government".


    I believe you should take your own advice and speak for yourself, and not for me. A National Socialist government was not anywhere near sacred as it put ideology before people. Germans who opposed National Socialism were executed. Which pro-German government executed its own people, its own flesh and blood, its own kin? Germans who simply wanted the better for their people. Stauffenberg noticed Hitler was going insane and wanted to rid Germany of him for the good of the people. He was executed for it. Do you know what his last words were? "Es lebe unser heiliges Deutschland!" ("Long live our holy Germany!"). Stauffenberg was not even a real opponent of National Socialists. I believe he agreed with the nationalistic aspects of National Socialism. He was a hero and a martyr. Dr. Solar Wolff, do you approve of the execution of young Germans for political reasons?


    I do not answer questions directed at my person. I am not here to discuss my person, I am here to discuss ideologies. If you believe you can discuss something without getting personal, then I will answer your questions.

    To put it clearly, I believe my ideology is more moral and more pro-Germanic than National Socialism which is a violent, oppressive ideology which makes a mockery of Germanic values.


    How do you feel about Turks waving a German flag with their Turkish symbol?



    Anyone can use them for any reason, you say?


    National Socialism is inspired from Judaism so it is not Germanic. National Socialism has more in common with Judaism than with Germanic, or European cultural origins.

    Below is a summary of some of the evolutionary and cultural differences between Jews and Europeans according to Kevin MacDonald (2000). Professor MacDonald has written extensively on Judaism from an evoutionary perspective.

    http://www.white-history.com/refuting_rm/2.html#other
    1. Just who are you to even tell anyone, let alone a NS, what a rune is intended for?
    2. Just who are you to define Germanic forms of government? When you do this in your condescending manner, you are treating others if if they are elementary school children and you are the teacher. I can assure you, this is not the case.
    3, You are completely backwards. National Socialism is furthering the target gene pool. That "pool" was the German People, not individual people as it is in the USA. You are very ethnocentric in projecting your values into other cultures, especially other cultures which were not even in existence during your lifetime.
    4. Stauffenberg was your hero? You and Tom Cruise. When you attempt to murder the political leader of a country, you are not generally held to be a martyr or hero. Perhaps you feel the same about Lee Harvey Oswald or Sirhan Sirhan? Regardless, you are not a German and it is their call, not yours or mine. Again, your ethnocentricity and rabid prejudice for Nazis are getting in the way of proper judgment.
    5. Personal: Here is what you do Dagna. You post a provocative poll, goad people who respond that you disagree with and then complain to the Staff about those people. But that is not personal is it Dagna? That is just fine isn't it?

    Dagna Quote:
    "To put it clearly, I believe my ideology is more moral and more pro-Germanic than National Socialism which is a violent, oppressive ideology which makes a mockery of Germanic values."

    How could we have missed it? You are the moral compass who seeks to set us on the righteous path by pointing out the "evil" of Nazism. I wonder if you can possibly comprehend how delusional and superior this sentence of yours sounds? Talk about being personal! You missed the big point. The highest moral ground is occupied by people who want to preserve and advance the Germanic gene and culture pools. The track record is clear on this point. The Nazis where the only government that even tried to do this. Therefore, the Nazis were the most moral government in human history.

    6. What in the world do Turks waiving a German flag with Turkish symbols have to do with this subject? Or should someone complain that it is "off topic" as you have done in the past to others?

    7. Why would you come here and cite Kevin MacDonald, an expert in Judaism? Judiasm has nothing to do with NS although some say Zionism was founded on NS principles. You are really confused. Perhaps you would be better served citing Kevin MacDonald at a Jewish forum.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff View Post
    1. Just who are you to even tell anyone, let alone a NS, what a rune is intended for?
    2. Just who are you to define Germanic forms of government? When you do this in your condescending manner, you are treating others if if they are elementary school children and you are the teacher. I can assure you, this is not the case.
    I don't believe it is I who defined these. Please read my threads and you will see I quote from sources, including Tacitus. I am a messenger, I did not establish these things in the first place, historians and writers did.

    4. Stauffenberg was your hero? You and Tom Cruise. When you attempt to murder the political leader of a country, you are not generally held to be a martyr or hero. Perhaps you feel the same about Lee Harvey Oswald or Sirhan Sirhan? Regardless, you are not a German and it is their call, not yours or mine. Again, your ethnocentricity and rabid prejudice for Nazis are getting in the way of proper judgment.
    You are a hero if you try to liberate your people from a madman. Germany recognizes Stauffenberg as a martyr.

    I did not say I am German.

    5. Personal: Here is what you do Dagna. You post a provocative poll, goad people who respond that you disagree with and then complain to the Staff about those people. But that is not personal is it Dagna? That is just fine isn't it?
    I did not "goad" anyone. I did not invite anyone here to insult me. I was hoping Germanics could have a rational, impersonal debate on this topic. If people insult me because my opinions about their ideology offends them then I do report the insults. Insults are the arguments of those who have no arguments. I also believe some people should control their outbursts.

    For the last time, I did not post here to discuss my person. I will not answer any more posts that are about my person.

    How could we have missed it? You are the moral compass who seeks to set us on the righteous path by pointing out the "evil" of Nazism. I wonder if you can possibly comprehend how delusional and superior this sentence of yours sounds? Talk about being personal! You missed the big point. The highest moral ground is occupied by people who want to preserve and advance the Germanic gene and culture pools. The track record is clear on this point. The Nazis where the only government that even tried to do this. Therefore, the Nazis were the most moral government in human history.
    I did not create my ideology, I believe I adopted it. It is immoral if in the "act" of "reservation" you harm your own people and conduct the genocide of others.

    What in the world do Turks waiving a German flag with Turkish symbols have to do with this subject? Or should someone complain that it is "off topic" as you have done in the past to others?
    I don't believe it is off-topic as I believe it is an example of abusing symbols. Some people claimed that symbols are free to use for all for any reason and therefore cannot be abused. I believe they can be abused and that was an example.

    Why would you come here and cite Kevin MacDonald, an expert in Judaism? Judiasm has nothing to do with NS although some say Zionism was founded on NS principles. You are really confused.
    National Socialism has some of its roots in Judaism. I am not confused.

    Perhaps you would be better served citing Kevin MacDonald at a Jewish forum.
    Perhaps you would be better served joining a National Socialist forum instead.


    Die Sonne scheint noch.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff View Post
    1. Just who are you to even tell anyone, let alone a NS, what a rune is intended for?
    Just because someone is NS doesn't mean they know what the runes are or what they mean. I know many NS that don't know what they mean, they just think they're some sort of evil Hitler symbols that they should get tattooed on their foreheads to show devotion to Hitler.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagna View Post
    National Socialism has some of its roots in Judaism. I am not confused.
    I already told you that similarity in tactic does not equate influence.
    Newton and Riemann invented independently the integration of mathematical functions, their tactics were most likely acquiring knowledge and then just try lots of things out, if Judaism would promote acquiring knowledge and then just trying lots of things out, would this mean Riemann's and Newton's Integral are also influenced by Judaism?
    This is idiotic, it is just the only right way to go, as I already said there is only on truth.

    Besides, no idea can stand alone, by mere knowledge of other cultures one could say we are already culturally influenced by others, because maybe only this knowledge has brought us certain ideas etc.

    But anyway, it doesn't even matter the slightest whether it is influenced by Judaism or not, it is just right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veratýr View Post
    Just because someone is NS doesn't mean they know what the runes are or what they mean. I know many NS that don't know what they mean, they just think they're some sort of evil Hitler symbols that they should get tattooed on their foreheads to show devotion to Hitler.
    No, every NS either knows the meaning or refrains from using them, you just happened to have met impostors and fakers.
    At least now you know how to spot them
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagna View Post
    I don't believe it is I who defined these. Please read my threads and you will see I quote from sources, including Tacitus. I am a messenger, I did not establish these things in the first place, historians and writers did.

    You are a hero if you try to liberate your people from a madman. Germany recognizes Stauffenberg as a martyr.

    I did not say I am German.

    I did not "goad" anyone. I did not invite anyone here to insult me. I was hoping Germanics could have a rational, impersonal debate on this topic. If people insult me because my opinions about their ideology offends them then I do report the insults. Insults are the arguments of those who have no arguments. I also believe some people should control their outbursts.

    For the last time, I did not post here to discuss my person. I will not answer any more posts that are about my person.

    You are a hero if you try to liberate your people from a madman. Germany recognizes Stauffenberg as a martyr.


    I don't believe it is off-topic as I believe it is an example of abusing symbols. Some people claimed that symbols are free to use for all for any reason and therefore cannot be abused. I believe they can be abused and that was an example.

    You are a hero if you try to liberate your people from a madman. Germany recognizes Stauffenberg as a martyr.


    Perhaps you would be better served joining a National Socialist forum instead.
    I was you who set yourself up as the moral compass. You might just remember this statement, Dagna:


    "To put it clearly, I believe my ideology is more moral and more pro-Germanic than National Socialism which is a violent, oppressive ideology which makes a mockery of Germanic values."

    Just to be clear, no your ideology is not morally superior to mine or anyone else's. How can you not see the egotism and ethnocentricism in your statement?

    Your question: Did NS Abuse the Symbols of our Ancestors questions the use of the Runes by National Socialists. Again, who do you think you are to judge the use of these symbols by any Germanic at all? Your response to the morals question is sufficient in my eyes but why are you afraid to spell it out for everyone else?

    Again, who are you to define what is a Germanic form of government? Falling back on Tacitus is a cop-out. There have been almost 2000 years of Germanic governments since Rome. We have covered this before. You want to discuss Germanics only in the dim past as if they are the subject for a mythology quiz. Germanics are living, breathing people and what they do now is just as "Germanic" as what our ancestors did. So Dagna, please define your Germanic forms of government so we can discuss that.

    Now you are "The Messenger"? No Dagna, wrong again. You are Your Opinion and that opinion is based on very flawed facts if facts at all.

    Dagna:

    "You are a hero if you try to liberate your people from a madman. Germany recognizes Stauffenberg as a martyr."

    So let me see if I have this right. "Germany" recognizes Stauffenberg as a martyr. That would mean all Germany since you use no qualifier. So if one German disagrees with you, you have a flawed argument. This is a grand, bold statement to make about a country and people which are not yours. Do I have to point out the implicit assumptions you just made in this statement and how utterly ethnocentricly you have projected your opinion onto others? How is it that you do this so easily and without second thought?

    You say National Socialism has roots in Judaism. You have said this several times yet offered nothing as proof. We are not going to wade through some Jewish scholar's musings. Please state your proof for this in your own words.

    As for personal attacks, your posts on NS come from your person alone and seemingly out of whole cloth. You offer no proof for your loaded posts You offer no proof for the use of: "genocide", "madman","hero","martyr", "a messenger"(as yourself), "my ideology is more moral". Yet when I dispute these words in this context, you cry "personal attack." Dagna, these are your personal concepts. They are unproven so far and I say unfounded and you do us a disservice when you attempt to use any of them as proof to make further unfounded statements.

  6. #36
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    I am Tiwaz.

    I am a Germanic symbol.

    I was abused by the national socialists.

    Oops!



    :

    It just does not make sense to me. How can someone can 'abuse' a symbol? This idea is something for people who have no grasp of the eternal within themselves.

    Also, are the Germanic people a cultural or racial grouping?

    If the latter than only Germanic people are Germanic, and not any political ideology or anything else which may be applied to them or which they might adhere to at any particular time.

    If the former then the concept 'Germanic' is entirely mutable anyway and we are debating a nonsense.

  7. #37
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    I did not create my ideology, I believe I adopted it. It is immoral if in the "act" of "reservation" you harm your own people and conduct the genocide of others.
    One must make room for the other.

    P.S. I'm with the Doc on this. Strangely, I have never heard of the user Dagna until today despite her high number of posts!
    Perfection.

    War is God's way of teaching Americans geography. - Ambrose Bierce

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysium View Post
    One must make room for the other.
    I believe that is what the Allies thought when they ethnically cleansed millions of ethnic Germans from Eastern Germany (modern day Poland and Russia). I believe it is not acceptable.


    Die Sonne scheint noch.

  9. #39
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    "Abuse" is the wrong Word. The Axis used it (I say "Axis" because not only Germany used these Symbols) not to make it look bad. I blame the Allied Propaganda for the View on these Symbols post-war.
    It's not about who uses it, it is about who and how many think it is evil, and the Amount of People who think so, is the Reason why it is seen as good or bad.
    It's because the Axis lost the War, and therefor the Axis are the "Evil" Ones. That's how it is in any War with any Country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dagna View Post
    Germany recognizes Stauffenberg as a martyr.
    Murdering Hitler when he started firing Generals and replacing them with delusional Generals was a good Idea. But he didn't succeed, and he killed many Innocent People with his Bomb. So he is not a Martyr nor a Hero. He had a good Plan, if he wanted to kill Hitler he could have done it easily, by shooting him in the Head. He was often around Hitler and could have done that easily. He would have been executed for that aswell. But then he would have been a Martyr.




    Gruß,
    Boche
    "We Germans fear God, but nothing else in the world; and already that godliness is it, which let us love and foster peace."
    - Otto von Bismarck, 1888

  10. #40
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    Dagna:

    "..... then I do report the insults. Insults are the arguments of those who have no arguments. I also believe some people should control their outbursts."

    Yet somehow your "political ideology" caused a complaint of rules violation to be lodged with the staff concerning my quote of your very own words in my Signature:

    "To put it clearly, I believe my ideology is more moral and more pro-Germanic than National Socialism which is a violent, oppressive ideology which makes a mockery of Germanic values."



    It seems your (political) ideology is flexible enough to allow internal contradictions. Or is there a copyright on these words which I have violated? Please explain this aspect of your ideology.

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