View Poll Results: Did the National Socialists abuse the symbols of our Germanic ancestors?

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  • I believe so.

    15 32.61%
  • I don't believe so.

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Thread: Did the National Socialists Misuse the Symbols of Our Germanic Ancestors?

  1. #61
    Senior Member Old Winter's Avatar
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    No, if Japan becomes NS they would use ancient Japanese symbols, can't blame them for doing that, they can't use symbols of for example Africa.

    Now this:
    In the 60's you could walk with a big swastika in Woodstock and nobody would say anything about it, also in the 70's.

    It has become more a taboo to use those symbols in the last 10-20 years.

  2. #62
    Senior Member SwordOfTheVistula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dietsehamer View Post
    No, if Japan becomes NS they would use ancient Japanese symbols, can't blame them for doing that, they can't use symbols of for example Africa.

    Now this:
    In the 60's you could walk with a big swastika in Woodstock and nobody would say anything about it, also in the 70's.

    It has become more a taboo to use those symbols in the last 10-20 years.
    It's a truly bizarre situation. In most cases, wartime propaganda eases off after the war and eventually the war and it's participants come to be viewed in a more objective fashion, as regards anything related to Germany in WWII, the propaganda just seems to grow as time goes on.
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  3. #63
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    Did the NSDAP abused those symbols. Depends in what context they used them. And how they vieuwed said symbols themselves. But mostly they used them as nothing more then as ways to conect the people with their ancestors. And there are probaly many cases of using this symbols in a wrong way.

    But ask yourselves who does more to keep these symbols "hate"symbols those few nazi/WN stereotypes, or those who have a strong intrest in pretending there is a large racist problem for them to combat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dietsehamer View Post
    Now this:
    In the 60's you could walk with a big swastika in Woodstock and nobody would say anything about it, also in the 70's.

    It has become more a taboo to use those symbols in the last 10-20 years.
    That is indeed a intresting thing in the light of the presentday near taboo on these symbols. Most of those at woodstock would have raised by the wargeneration. And apeartenly they weren't trained to hate these symbols.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GroeneWolf View Post
    Did the NSDAP abused those symbols. Depends in what context they used them. And how they vieuwed said symbols themselves. But mostly they used them as nothing more then as ways to conect the people with their ancestors. And there are probaly many cases of using this symbols in a wrong way.

    But ask yourselves who does more to keep these symbols "hate"symbols those few nazi/WN stereotypes, or those who have a strong intrest in pretending there is a large racist problem for them to combat.
    I believe it is the latter but they have a cause, because those symbols were used for racist purposes. They manage to alienate people from using them. Until the National Socialists used them, no one made an outrage out of the use of our sacred symbols.

    I believe the SS used runes.



    Two white oblique Sig Runes on black: The symbol of the Nazi SS

    The Hitler Youth also used a single Sig Rune as the emblem of its organization.


    Die Sonne scheint noch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagna View Post
    Until the National Socialists used them, no one made an outrage out of the use of our sacred symbols.
    I refer to the example given by Dietsehamer. The reason there is such a strong taboo surrounding there use is because said organisations keep linking them exclusivly to the Nazi-regime, wich in turn is linked with absolute Evil. However since a swastika-tatoo on the back of a white-security person at woodstock did caused any uproar. It tells me at least that for a long time people didn't went hystracily screaming they are evil, that is all thy need to know, afther World War II.

    Futhermore, those organisations do nothing to make people aware of the non-nazi part of those symbols except for maybe minor disclaimers sometimes.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by GroeneWolf View Post
    I refer to the example given by Dietsehamer. The reason there is such a strong taboo surrounding there use is because said organisations keep linking them exclusivly to the Nazi-regime, wich in turn is linked with absolute Evil. However since a swastika-tatoo on the back of a white-security person at woodstock did caused any uproar. It tells me at least that for a long time people didn't went hystracily screaming they are evil, that is all thy need to know, afther World War II.

    Futhermore, those organisations do nothing to make people aware of the non-nazi part of those symbols except for maybe minor disclaimers sometimes.
    Indeed, there is little to nothing taught about the history and real meaning of these symbols. Few people would know, for example, that what the National Socialists called the black sun is not really a National Socialist invention. Would Germans be able to display such symbols in Germany today?



    Alemannic or Bavarian brooches (Zierscheiben) incorporating a swastika symbol at the center with a varying number of rays.

    Left image: from a grave field called "Bachkramer" between St. Christoph and Steinhöring Haag museum

    Right image: Bronze zierscheiben from 6-8 century A.D from Fützen (Blumberg) Durchmesser, diameter 8 cm


    Die Sonne scheint noch.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagna View Post
    Kevin MacDonald cites European Cultural Origins: Social structure: Individualistic; Republican; Democratic; Ethnocentrism: Relatively Low; Xenophobia: Relatively Low; Socialization: Stresses Independence,
    Self-Reliance;

    Jewish Cultural Origins: Social structure: Collectivistic; Authoritarian; Charismatic Leaders; Ethnocentrism: Relatively High; “Hyper-
    ethnocentrism; Xenophobia: Relatively High; “Hyper-
    xenophobia; Socialization: Stresses Ingroup Identification, Obligations
    to Kinship Group;

    National Socialism is not individualistic, not democratic, highly ethnocentrist and xenophobic, stresses obligations to the group before rights. The conclusion is obvious.
    There is no indication of influence, do you really suggest that ALL ideaologies who follow such a pattern are influenced by Judaism?

    This is ridicules, did you know that ancient Germanics used their feet to walk?
    Negroes do so too! Evident conclusion: All Germanic movements are Nigger influenced!
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  8. #68
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    Yes, they did. Let's see what the runes are...


    In old Scandinavian belief, the runes were of divine origin (Old Norse: reginkunnr), and this is attested as early as on the c. 600 AD Noleby Runestone (Runo fahi raginakundo toj[e'k]a..., meaning "I prepare the suitable divine rune ..."[1]) and in an attestation from the 9th century on the Sparlsa Runestone (Ok ra runaR aR rgi[n]kundu, meaning "And interpret the runes of divine origin"[2]). More notably, in Hvaml, Stanza 80, the runes are also described as reginkunnr:

    80. at er reynt,
    er a rnum spyrr
    inum reginkunnum,
    eim er geru ginnregin
    ok fi fimbululr,
    hefir hann bazt, ef hann egir.[3]



    80. Then 'tis made manifest,
    if of runes thou questionest him,
    those to the high ones known,
    which the great powers invented,
    and the great talker painted,
    that he had best hold silence.[4]



    The eddic poem explains that their originator was the god Odin, and Stanzas 138, 139 describe how Odin received the rune through his self-sacrifice. The text (in Old Norse and in English translation) is as follows:

    Veit ec at ec hecc vindga meii a
    netr allar no,
    geiri vndar oc gefinn Oni,
    sialfr sialfom mer,
    a eim meii, er mangi veit, hvers hann af rtom renn.

    Vi hleifi mic seldo ne vi hornigi,
    nysta ec nir,
    nam ec vp rvnar,
    opandi nam,
    fell ec aptr aan.


    I know that I hung on a windy tree
    nights all nine,
    wounded with a spear and given to Odin,
    myself to myself,
    on that tree of which no man knows from where its roots run

    No bread did they give me nor a drink from a horn,
    downwards I peered,
    I took up the runes,
    screaming I took them,
    then I fell back from there

    There are two accounts of how runes became known to mortal men. It is told in the Rgsula how Rg, identified as Heimdall in the introduction, sired three sonsThrall (slave), Churl (freeman) and Jarl (noble)on human women. These sons became the ancestors of the three classes of men indicated by their names. When Jarl reached an age when he began to handle weapons and show other signs of nobility, Rig returned and, having claimed him as a son, taught him the runes. In 1555, the exiled Swedish archbishop Olaus Magnus recorded a tradition that a man named Kettil Runske had stolen three rune staffs from Odin and learned the runes and their magic.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_alphabet

    It was a sacrilege to use these runes for non-heathen purposes. The SS was not a heathen organisation.

    A little comment, by the way. You can say nationalsocialism was a racialist/racist ideology and what you want, but moral it was not by any stretch of imagination. The Holocaust happened and while the figures might be exaggerated and many horror tales told about it, there is no doubt that Jews were exterminated for racial purpose.

    Anyway, this is the past. It's not a reason why we should discard our symbols.

    I disagree with Dagna about the original Germanic system though. I am interested in tribalism so I'm reading a lot about this theme. The original Germanic system was not a democracy, it was rather a meritocracy.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volksdeutscher View Post
    Yes, they did. Let's see what the runes are[...]
    A fine history lesson. However, it in no way presupposes a fundamental basis that the Runes were 'abused'. Indeed, if one understands the allegory and metaphor, a very strong argument can be made that Hitler, himself, took up the Runes. - the secrets were revealed to and through him by way of literal and symbolic sacrifice of self in a non-ascetic manner.

    It was a sacrilege to use these runes for non-heathen purposes. The SS was not a heathen organisation.
    Was the SS a Christian organisation? Incidentally, the term "sacrilege" has uniquely Christian, monotheistic, etymological and etiological origin: what belongs to 'God' and what belongs to the 'gods' involve a nearly antithetical cosmological Weltanschauung.

    O.E. hen "not Christian or Jewish," merged with O.N. heiinn. Historically assumed to be from Goth. haino "gentile, heathen woman," used by Ulfilas in the first translation of the Bible into a Gmc. language (cf. Mark 7:26, for "Greek"); if so it could be a derivative of Goth. haii "dwelling on the heath," but this sense is not recorded. It may have been chosen on model of L. paganus (see pagan), or for resemblance to Gk. ethne (see gentile), or may in fact be a borrowing of that word, perhaps via Armenian hethanos. Like other words for exclusively Christian ideas (e.g. church) it would have come first into Gothic, then spread to other Gmc. languages.
    The SS was, by definition, a Heathen organisation.

    A little comment, by the way. You can say nationalsocialism was a racialist/racist ideology and what you want, but moral it was not by any stretch of imagination. The Holocaust happened and while the figures might be exaggerated and many horror tales told about it, there is no doubt that Jews were exterminated for racial purpose.
    NS was/is amoral, then? NS is moral by definition.

    Anyway, this is the past. It's not a reason why we should discard our symbols.
    How shall we use them, then? And, how did/does NS 'abuse' them?
    "...The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species; indeed - he is a type in regard to morality, but not a type in himself; a copy...the measure of his value lies outside him. ... I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage; I do not account the evil and painful character of existence a reproach to it, but hope rather that it will one day be more evil and painful than hitherto..." (Nietzsche)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagna View Post
    Indeed, there is little to nothing taught about the history and real meaning of these symbols. Few people would know, for example, that what the National Socialists called the black sun is not really a National Socialist invention. Would Germans be able to display such symbols in Germany today?
    Only those who prevent German and Germanic in genera from displaying such symbols are those socalled "anti"-hate group like the ADL, Lonsdale news, Kafka, AntiFa, ect. Or at least they the most intrest, because it furthers their International Socialistic/Anti-European agenda's. The use the nazi-thing only as an excuse. In my country they no even call those who are against pedofiles facists , or more acuratly definied pedofobes eyes: .

    So if they get a more mainstream aceptence for that against all ods, would you open next a tread with did nazi's abused the fight against pedofiles? Because it comes across to me if you alow yourself to be played by them.

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