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Thread: Austria: Woman Was 'Imprisoned by Father for Almost 25 Years'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhydderch View Post
    It certainly sounds weird, but I suppose before jumping to too many conclusions we should remember that none of this is proven. It might not be quite as strange as it sounds.

    The press could be exaggerating for a sensational story, or the lady herself mightn't be telling the whole truth, we just don't know.

    I remember with that other girl in Austria locked in a cellar it wasn't as extreme as first reported.
    Oh Jesus Christ..again, a communist conspiracy? :eek: Will you make a conspiracy out of everything you don't like? :

    The news is travelling around the world and it is proven. Policemen are reporting how they found the children locked up in the house, how some of them 'saw the sunlight for the very first time". The man had children with his daughter. Is that not 'extreme'?

    I can't believe how people will doubt and discredit anything that makes them feel awkward and challenges their peachy, trouble-free world. The human psyche is dark, things like that do happen around the civilized world, and for all you know, it could be happening next to your own house.
    I bet you would go as far as silencing a crime so as not to compromise the 'integrity' of your community, the normality of your life and your next shopping spree at the mall.

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    Care to explain the existence of the children then? Communist conspiracy? Or maybe the woman was impregnated by "god"? eyes:

    Too bad Austria has no capital punishment. Such scum doesn't deserve to live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blood Axis View Post
    Will you make a conspiracy out of everything you don't like?
    When did I suggest anything remotely like a conspiracy?

    The news is travelling around the world and it is proven.
    Some of it is proven, not all of it.

    Policemen are reporting how they found the children locked up in the house,
    Yes, proven.

    how some of them 'saw the sunlight for the very first time".
    I don't believe that's proven at this stage.

    The man had children with his daughter.
    Again, not proven, they're currently doing DNA tests to determine whether that is the case.

    Obviously it looks like that is the case, and I believe it probably is. Even so, that wouldn't have to be a case of abuse. Just recently there was a story in the news here in Australia about a father and daughter who had children together; both consenting adults, and quite happy to talk publicly about it. This occured about three hours drive from where I live.

    I can't believe how people will doubt and discredit anything that makes them feel awkward and challenges their peachy, trouble-free world. The human psyche is dark, things like that do happen around the civilized world, and for all you know, it could be happening next to your own house.
    I bet you would go as far as silencing a crime so as not to compromise the 'integrity' of your community, the normality of your life and your next shopping spree at the mall.
    Huh, cut out this nonsense. Things much worse than this have been proven to have happened and yes, in the Western World, but I suspect that your own philosophy has a lot more trouble explaining such things than mine does. Human nature is worse than you think it is, and man's capacity for evil has no limits.

    The point I'm trying to get across has nothing to do with attempting to show that humans couldn't be that bad, it's about justice. You've condemned a man on the basis of one person's account of events and a sensational media story.

    Sometimes I hear stories of juries convicting someone when it seems the evidence against him is terribly poor. I think "how did that happen?"; but then I remember that folks like you are serving on juries all the time. So, no wonder these terribly unjust convictions are happening.

    Do you know what trials are for? They are to determine whether somebody is guilty or not.

    Granted, the evidence against the man doesn't look good, but we should find out more before jumping to too many conclusions. He's innocent until proven guilty.


    And by the way, obsession with things like "shopping sprees" is a bit of a girly thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Ossi
    Care to explain the existence of the children then?
    With the evidence as it is (i.e. not substantial), I could give you all sorts of quite valid speculations as to where the children came from, there are plenty of possibilities given what little information we have. You're making some pretty big unproven assumptions there.

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    This case was all the papers in Finland today. I don't really know what to say, just saying the obvious -- that this is horrific beyond all understanding -- seems like an understatement.

    That poor woman is now 42, but "looks like 70", according to some stories I read. It is simply not possible that anyone, not her or her children, will over recover from this.

    The pit of human evil and perversity is truly bottomless. I await further revelations with horror, and (it must be admitted) with a sort of morbid curiosity.

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    The existence of such scum as this man is enough reason to bring back the death penalty. :

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhydderch View Post
    With the evidence as it is (i.e. not substantial), I could give you all sorts of quite valid speculations as to where the children came from, there are plenty of possibilities given what little information we have. You're making some pretty big unproven assumptions there.
    There is substantial evidence. DNA tests proved that he is the father of her children.

    Vienna - DNA test results confirmed on Tuesday that the Austrian man who locked up his daughter for 24 years in a basement was indeed the father of her surviving six children, investigators said. "The DNA tests provided decisive evidence that the six children that Elisabeth (Fritzl) gave birth to, have the same father," chief investigator Franz Polzer told a press conference.
    "We're talking about Josef Fritzl, 73," he added, naming Elisabeth's father. [...]
    Full article

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    DNA tests proved that he is the father of her children.
    As I made clear in my post, the DNA tests hadn't yet been conducted when I last heard, so the evidence is clearer than it was when I made that comment. But again, the DNA tests don't prove that he was abusing her.

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    What about the wife of the 70 year old man? The elaborate ruse which the man used sounded like it was being played on his wife, among others. Was there a wife living upstairs, not knowing what was going on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhydderch View Post
    With the evidence as it is (i.e. not substantial), I could give you all sorts of quite valid speculations as to where the children came from, there are plenty of possibilities given what little information we have. You're making some pretty big unproven assumptions there.
    There is proof everywhere you look. DNA, father's confession, and so on. Unlike Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny and God, abusive scumbags do exist in reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhydderch View Post
    As I made clear in my post, the DNA tests hadn't yet been conducted when I last heard, so the evidence is clearer than it was when I made that comment.
    Yes, they were. An article was dated 2 hours before your post, all you needed was to do a Google news search.

    But again, the DNA tests don't prove that he was abusing her.
    Read the news again, he admitted abusing her. Or wait... no, that's a conspiracy again, he's probably just lying for sensationalism. eyes:

    Why do you keep defending this scumbag?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff View Post
    What about the wife of the 70 year old man? The elaborate ruse which the man used sounded like it was being played on his wife, among others. Was there a wife living upstairs, not knowing what was going on?
    Yeah, and she didn't have a clue what was going on. He never let anyone go near his cellar. He adopted two of the boys and a girl telling his wife that Elisabeth left them at the doorstep. His daughter signed letters saying she couldn't take care of the children anymore, so it seemed believable.

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    The only remedy for lowlifes who commit crimes like these cost about €0.10, are made of metal and available in every decent DIY store.

    ---------------------
    Nonetheless - one things needs to be said here though about the press:

    There are sick people all over the place, and in every country. Just with the difference that elsewhere these topics rarely even make the headlines. Apart from the few, who remembers all the ordeals of young children locked in a cellar that weren't even mentioned in major newspapers and for which one had to either read tabloids or watch low-quality afternoon documentaries?

    In a way it is good that matters like these are publicised as well as punished, so that everyone can be sure that the culprit, even if he does ever get out of jail alive (doubtful at the age of 73 anyway) will be shunned by the entirety of society. It''d pretty much have the effect of a good old Icelandic outlawing, to some extent ...

    On the other hand, however, there is something between the lines. That's the fact that I can hardly remember a case in the Second Republic which had to do with locking young people into a dungeon ... until recently. Ya know, it happens more often that we would think and hope - I once knew a 7 yr old girl who barely escaped being locked into a cellar by a stranger who waited for her on the way back from school only because policement checked the kidnapper's car trunk for smuggled ware at the German-Austrian border! However it is mildly strange that ever since the Kampusch case these are so heavily publicised ... and it all happens in Austria. Strangely enough, suddenly all sick minds come from Austria (As I said, often similar cases elsewhere don't even make the papers!) Yea, right...

    So, in the end, they're using a tragical fate to beat into the minds of the world population that the Austrians are a group of cruel people in general ... may that have an effect or not on the general populace around the globe ... and I wouldn't be surprised if the media finally seeks to capitalise on the event and do a documentary continously as well as approaching the woman and the children in question for interviews. They handled it less than an inch short of indiscrete in the Kampusch case, and I don't expect them to do it any different.

    See, that's the zeitgeist in the press. Somewhere, unspeakable things happen to people ... and all the press wants is to make the story even bigger, when - besides the obvious press announcement so people are made aware again that it's not all happy sunshine and that these bad things do happen - all that the victims can really hope for is silence so that they can try to recover ... if they ever can. Making things known and keeping the public updated is one thing - but undoubtedly, the media will practice a fair deal of indiscretion and be more intrustive than they should be (Undoubtedly they'll soon be wanting to ask the victims about their time in the cellar?!).

    IN fact that is all that ever happens - a big media showdown when something twisted like that happens, and a big shout of "oh my god" throughout the general public. But does anything ever get done in order to cut down on chances of such things happening, or at least a law passed for higher punishments for crimes like that? Nope...
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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