National Socialism & Communism, the Far Right & Far Left, a Parallel

[Dagna]

I believe both National Socialism and Communism are totalitarian, oppressive, anti-freedom, un-Germanic ideologies. Here is a parallel between National Socialist and Communist systems in Germany. The similarities are striking.

1. Both are totalitarian ideologies. Totalitarianism is a form of government in which all societal resources are monopolized by the state in an effort to penetrate and control all aspects of public and private life, through the state's use of propaganda, terror, and technology. Totalitarian societies are hierarchies dominated by one political party (NSDAP, SED) and by a single leader (Adolf Hitler, Erich Honecker). The party penetrates the entire country through regional, provincial, local and "primary" (party-cell) organization. Youth, professional, cultural, and sports groups supplement the party's political control (Hitler Jugend, BDM, Jungpioniere, FDJ). A paramilitary secret police (Gestapo, Stasi) ensures compliance. Information and ideas are effectively organized through the control of television, radio, the press, and education at all levels. Political dissent is not tolerated and dissenting voices are imprisoned or sentenced to death.

3. Both pursued an anti-capitalist, socialist economic model. Both want to free the workers from the capitalistic extortion. Ironically, both associate the other with capitalism. To the Communists, National Socialism is a branch of capitalism. To the National Socialists, Communism and the international capital are two branches of the international Jewish world conspiracy.

4. Both are anti-democratic. Both despised the "weak western democracy".

5. Both claim to be peace-loving regimes who resort to war only as a last option. Both claimed, when it was tactically convenient, that they wanted peace and that those who opposed them were warmongers.

6. Both have followers denying their crimes. (Holocaust denial, justification/denial of crimes against East Germans who fled the Republic).

7. Both have followers who believe them to be the only pro-Germanic systems. To National Socialists and Communists, their regimes are all the only true belief.

[Bärin]

How can you compare the Holocaust with the death of no more than 200 Germans? And who is denying their death? It was wrong to shoot at Germans who fled, no German socialist in his right mind excuses it!

East Germany wanted peace by the way. Did it start a war? Did it attack other countries? Please inform yourself about the history before you make offensive claims about my former country and my favourite East German leader. :

And now it's up to you to prove how the Germanics were "classic liberals."

[Jäger]

3. Both pursued an anti-capitalist, socialist economic model. Both want to free the workers from the capitalistic extortion. Ironically, both associate the other with capitalism.

Hmm, can you define anti-capitalist better? The essential difference between the Communistic and the NS economic system was that in NS you have private property and the market follows "supply and demand", in a Communist society both points are different, in fact objectively NS was quite pro market economy, but I am not sure what you mean with capitalist.

5. Both claim to be peace-loving regimes who resort to war only as a last option.

No.

"Mankind has grown great in eternal struggle, and only in eternal peace does it perish." - A. Hitler

Or compare works from Kurt Eggers:
Von der Feindschaft
Krieg ist der Vater aller Dinge
Der Freiheit wildes Lied

And I even doubt Communism did so too.

7. Both have followers who believe them to be the only pro-Germanic systems. To National Socialists and Communists, their regimes are all the only true belief.

Hmm, I am not aware of people who think of Communism as the only pro-Germanic system, is that your personal experience with Germanic preservationists, or are you referring to this forum?

[Veratýr]

I don't think National Socialism is an ideal system for Germanic people, but without returning to pagan tribal roots and getting rid of all of our technology, it is the only one that will work (minus the racism).

[Guntwachar]

Originally Posted by Dagna
7. Both have followers who believe them to be the only pro-Germanic systems. To National Socialists and Communists, their regimes are all the only true belief.

How can people think Communism is Pro-Germanic??? it isnt started by Germanics but by Russians and maybe even jews if you want to believe some theory's...

I do agree that the Regimes looked like eachother, not on political ideas but more the attitude both were proud on there nation and people, and both also killed hell of alot people.
Only thing why i maybe hate Communism more then NS is because the people still lie about what the Soviets did in that time, Soviets had more camps then Nazi Germany had and had prisoners that been there for 15 to 20 years.
Nazi Germany stopped after the ww2 the Soviets went on for to many years thats the big difference between them they traded Hitler in for Stalin.

[DanseMacabre]

1. Both are totalitarian ideologies. Totalitarianism is a form of government in which all societal resources are monopolized by the state in an effort to penetrate and control all aspects of public and private life, through the state's use of propaganda, terror, and technology. Totalitarian societies are hierarchies dominated by one political party (NSDAP, SED) and by a single leader (Adolf Hitler, Erich Honecker). The party penetrates the entire country through regional, provincial, local and "primary" (party-cell) organization. Youth, professional, cultural, and sports groups supplement the party's political control (Hitler Jugend, BDM, Jungpioniere, FDJ). A paramilitary secret police (Gestapo, Stasi) ensures compliance. Information and ideas are effectively organized through the control of television, radio, the press, and education at all levels. Political dissent is not tolerated and dissenting voices are imprisoned or sentenced to death.

Germanics used to elect their King or Chieftan. Germans elected Hitler. I believe NS has more in common with Germanic monarchism than Communist dictatorship. It is true NS is a wolrdview that extends into all aspects of the peoples lives. But in Germany this was not forced. The NSDAP united Germans unlike any previous worldview. Allied propaganda portrayed this solidarity as a "personality cult" and dictatorship. The NSDAP trancended an ordinary political party.

4. Both are anti-democratic. Both despised the "weak western democracy".

NS opposes democracy in favor of meritocracy this is true and right. Leadership should not be based on popularity (representitive) and short sighted whims (direct).

6. Both have followers denying their crimes. (Holocaust denial, justification/denial of crimes against East Germans who fled the Republic).

I am not dumb enough to hold as gospel Jewish and Allied holocaust history. But in the end, for me at least, it doesn't matter if 6 million jews were destroyed. They were the instigators of world war 2 and their destruction rests on their shoulders alone.

7. Both have followers who believe them to be the only pro-Germanic systems. To National Socialists and Communists, their regimes are all the only true belief

I have never met a pro-Germanic Communist. I think NS is the only system which is designed to combat racially destructive forces. Classical Liberalism failed from within and was primarily based on individualism and self interest.

[Berrocscir]

Dagna's description of communism seems to suggest the Stalinist USSR which was what I call National Communist. The Soviet system played up russian nationalism. It paid lip service to International Marxism, but that's all. Take away the economy and race issues and the political make up of NS Germany & the Stalin era USSR and you've got the same thing.

[Dagna]

Hmm, can you define anti-capitalist better? The essential difference between the Communistic and the NS economic system was that in NS you have private property and the market follows "supply and demand", in a Communist society both points are different, in fact objectively NS was quite pro market economy, but I am not sure what you mean with capitalist.

Capitalism is an economic theory which stresses that control of the means of producing economic goods in a society should reside in the hands of those who invest the capital for production. Private ownership and free enterprise is supposed to lead to more efficiency, lower prices, better products. Adam Smith popularized this theory in his 1776 book The Wealth of Nations.

No.

"Mankind has grown great in eternal struggle, and only in eternal peace does it perish." - A. Hitler

Or compare works from Kurt Eggers:
Von der Feindschaft
Krieg ist der Vater aller Dinge
Der Freiheit wildes Lied

"National Socialist Germany wants peace because of its fundamental convictions. And it wants peace also owing to the realization of the simple primitive fact that no war would be likely essentially to alter the distress in Europe... The principal effect of every war is to destroy the flower of the nation... Germany needs peace and desires peace!" (Adolf Hitler, Speech to the Reichstag in Berlin May 1935)

"I want peace - and I will do everything in my power to make peace. As yet it's not too late. I will go to the very limits of the possible, as far as the sacrifices and the dignity of the German nation permit it. I can think of better things than war! When I only so much as think about the loss of German blood - the ones who die in war are always the best, the bravest, the ones most willing to make sacrifices, the ones whose duty it would be to embody and to lead the nation. I have no need to make a name for myself through war, like Churchill does. The name I want to make for myself is that of the steward of the German people; I want to secure my people's unity and living space, to put national Socialism into effect, and to bring order to its environment." (Hitler after the end of the French campaign, in a conversation with his architect Professor Hermann Giesler. Quoted in: Giesler; Ein anderer Hitler, p. 395.)

Hitler claimed many things, I believe he was making a lot of propaganda. He also made pro-Christian and anti-Christian statements, could not even stick to a stable version of what he was claiming.

And I even doubt Communism did so too.

"The GDR has over the past three and a half decades developed successfully as a state of peace and socialism, as an effective factor of stability and security on the European continent. [...] Generations of upstanding Germans had dreamt of a new and peaceful Germany, free from exploitation and oppression and on friendly terms with all nations. This is what they fought and risked their lives for. In the GDR their legacy has become a reality, embodying what the country's best sons and daughters had been striving for. [...] Never again must a war emanate from Germany soil!" (Erich Honecker, The GDR, A State of Peace and Socialism)

The point is, that both National Socialism and Communism, support war in reality. I believe we can agree on that.

Hmm, I am not aware of people who think of Communism as the only pro-Germanic system, is that your personal experience with Germanic preservationists, or are you referring to this forum?

Both.

I don't think National Socialism is an ideal system for Germanic people, but without returning to pagan tribal roots and getting rid of all of our technology, it is the only one that will work (minus the racism).

I believe National Socialism is based on racism and taking racism out of National Socialism is like taking Marxism/Leninism out of Communism. It is not National Socialism anymore, without the racism.

How can people think Communism is Pro-Germanic??? it isnt started by Germanics but by Russians and maybe even jews if you want to believe some theory's...

National Socialism was not started by Germanics either, I believe its first ideas developed in Sparta in its incipient form. Hitler was inspired from their people and considered them "Aryans". National Socialism also has much of its roots in Judaism. Zionism is Jewish National Socialism.

Germanics used to elect their King or Chieftan. Germans elected Hitler.

He was never elected to anything, that is a lie told by National Socialists who want their regime to seem more "democratic". In 1932 Hitler, Hindenburg and others ran for President. No one got a majority. Hindenburg won the subsequent runoff against Hitler. In the first round, Hindenburg received 49.6% of the vote. Hitler received 38%. The other 12% or so went to other candidates. Hitler did not receive the plurality of the votes. In the second round. Hitler received less than 39% and Hindenburg received 53%. Hitler was appointed by Hindenburg to be Chancellor.

I believe NS has more in common with Germanic monarchism than Communist dictatorship. It is true NS is a wolrdview that extends into all aspects of the peoples lives. But in Germany this was not forced. The NSDAP united Germans unlike any previous worldview. Allied propaganda portrayed this solidarity as a "personality cult" and dictatorship. The NSDAP trancended an ordinary political party.

Ordinary political party? Not by any stretch of imagination. The other parties were outlawed and there was a personality cult. Hitler's portrait reigned in every official room, the standard greeting was "Heil Hitler" and they had the saying "Die Partei ist Hitler" (The party is Hitler) and "Hitler ist Deutschland" (Hitler is Germany). If that is not a personality cult, then nothing is.

I have never met a pro-Germanic Communist. I think NS is the only system which is designed to combat racially destructive forces. Classical Liberalism failed from within and was primarily based on individualism and self interest.

That is what I said, National Socialists believe that their regime is the only pro-Germanic regime, as Christians believe that they are the only ones right about religions and all others will burn in hell. Thank you for proving my point.

[Loddfafner]

Does anyone remember Rudolf Bahro? He turned Marxist analysis on to the Soviet system and argued for a genuine socialist revolution in the east block. After 1989 he had a chance to speak up to the East German parliament (if I remember correctly) and urged them to deindustiralize and return to an agrarian society instead of merging with West Germany. He was laughed off of the podium. Later he joined the Rajneesh in Oregon.

[Ossi]

"The GDR has over the past three and a half decades developed successfully as a state of peace and socialism, as an effective factor of stability and security on the European continent. [...] Generations of upstanding Germans had dreamt of a new and peaceful Germany, free from exploitation and oppression and on friendly terms with all nations. This is what they fought and risked their lives for. In the GDR their legacy has become a reality, embodying what the country's best sons and daughters had been striving for. [...] Never again must a war emanate from Germany soil!" (Erich Honecker, The GDR, A State of Peace and Socialism)

The point is, that both National Socialism and Communism, support war in reality. I believe we can agree on that.

How does quoting Honecker on peace prove that the GDR supported war?