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Thread: Differences and Similarities Between Agnosticism and Atheism

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    Differences and Similarities Between Agnosticism and Atheism

    What sort of views do Agnostic have in comparison to Atheists? What are the differences and similarities between them?

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    I believe in God but I believe God is a subjective God, basically meaning God can be used to exploit the minds and hearts of people.

    There may exist a God. How else can you explain the harmony and complexity of the Universe?

    The truest manifestation of God can be found in Nature, where Life breeds Death.

    God created Life. Without Life there is no Struggle. One can only arrive at the conclusion that God is the Force of Struggle between all living things.

    In regards to the Agnotic Atheist difference. Atheists believe there is no God, Agnostics don't care if there is or isn't.

    But fundementally Agnotics, Atheists, and Theists are all the same.

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    I agree with most of what Driftwood said, but i also would like to add that being an Atheist is even more irrational than being a Theist, Atheists are comparable to rebellious teenagers who are against everything just because they are in bad mood with the world.
    On the other hand being Agnostic is much more balanced and rational since Agnostics are open to the existence and to the non existence, and as i once said in another thread, lack of proof doesn't mean proof of non existence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DriftWood View Post
    In regards to the Agnotic Atheist difference. Atheists believe there is no God, Agnostics don't care if there is or isn't.

    But fundementally Agnotics, Atheists, and Theists are all the same.
    I don't think its the same because Agnostic believe we need to established knowledge to base conclusion on existence and lack thereof of God.
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    Why is it irrational? You'll be hard-pressed to find an atheist who claims so boldly, "I know for a fact there is no god or gods and that is final." Usually, atheists are disbelievers because not any or enough valid evidence or reason has been presented to pursue a belief in a creator. Of course, a lot of atheists accept the possibility that there could be a creator somewhere out there, but..... there could be as most anything could be.
    If I made the claim that a unicorn, who only appeared to me, comes by my window every night before I sleep, most would dismiss it. There is no evidence to say there is a unicorn, and there is no evidence to say there isn't a unicorn. The existence of the unicorn cannot be proven nor can it be disproved, so does that make the likelihood of it existing to it not existing equal? No. Understandably, most would consider the weight of the non-existence of the unicorn to be more and the chance of the existence of the unicorn to be there, but slim. It'll suffice to say that there is no unicorn.
    If one approached a scientist and said that we are all living inside a computer matrix and everything we know, see and feel is part of the integral workings of an alien technology, would the scientist put much thought into this idea simply because it cannot be proven nor disproved? No. He might acknowledge that it is an interesting idea and could be, but he will likely have more reason to disregard it until substantial evidence can be presented.
    The unicorn outside my window, the computerized world, and god spewing out the universe all remain mere concepts of man until evidence is brought forth to prove them true. In other words, atheists have their agnosticism about them, but their disbelief in a creator is stronger than their belief in a creator. It is a matter of probabilities. The atheist (the non-angsty, rebellious, teenage atheist) takes a rather scientific approach and his doubts fall perfectly within the spectrum of logic, reason and rationality.

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    God is only needed for reason of causality, but causality is a temporal concept and time is an illusion. From a Buddhist perspective All things are interdependent,they arise an in unison and disappear as well only to returned in another moment like ripples on a pond. The ten thousand things return to the One and the One to the ten thousand things.
    Carlo Rovelli,a physicist at the University of the Mediterranean in Marseille, France in an article in Discover magazine.“ in quantum mechanics all particles of matter and energy can also be described as waves. And waves have an unusual property: An infinite number of them can exist in the same location. If time and space are one day shown to consist of quanta, the quanta could all exist piled together in a single dimensionless point. “Space and time in some sense melt in this picture,” says Rovelli. “
    No space no time,no creations needed,nor can things be random because of quantum Entanglement.“Quantum Enigma“ as described in Quantum Enigma: Physics Encounters Consciousness (Oxford University Press) by Bruce Rosenblum and Fred Kuttner 2
    observation of one object can instantaneously influence the behavior of another greatly distant object — even if no physical force connects the two. … Quantum theory also tells us that observing an object to be someplace causes it to be there. … according to quantum theory, an object can be in two, or many, places at once — even far distant places. Its existence at the particular place it happens to be found becomes an actuality only upon its (conscious) observation.”
    God is waveform made particulate by faith,without faith God is the still pond everything ,nothing. God is an electron everywhere in its orbit and at no place in its orbit in time. In the dream the dreamer and the dreamed are one but seem like two.Lao tzu said Those who know do not speak,Chuang Tzu said,then why did Lao Tzu write a thousand words?
    So I guess I am a Gnostic nontheist?
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    How about God is Pure Reason or Reason incarnate?:

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    Quote Originally Posted by DriftWood View Post
    How about God is Pure Reason or Reason incarnate?:
    A singular god - omnipotent and omnipresent - must be, and must contain, any and all attributes that any rational mind is able to assign 'him' or one cannot ascribe omnipotence to said god. 'God' must also be the absolute lack of reason, therefore - which is a contradiction. So, one must conclude that said god operates outside of the realm of logic, which also eliminates the possibility of omnipotence as we are, necessarily, subtracting a possible, and reasonable, attribute. Unless, of course, everything that occurs, even the most 'horrendous' acts, even the most 'catostophic' events, even the most 'grave injustices' are all - Pure and Reasonable................. One sees a glint in this logical procession as to why the Germanic people's were so hard to convert to Christianity; and, why polytheism is actually more in-line with spiritual Being.


    "The bite of conscience, like that of a dog into a stone, is a stupidity" (Nietzsche).
    "...The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species; indeed - he is a type in regard to morality, but not a type in himself; a copy...the measure of his value lies outside him. ... I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage; I do not account the evil and painful character of existence a reproach to it, but hope rather that it will one day be more evil and painful than hitherto..." (Nietzsche)

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    Well I am firmly in the Atheist camp. I don't believe in God/Gods but that isn't the issue for me. People can believe what they want to believe . The real issue for me is the role/influence of religion within societies and world history.
    I see the religious fish on friday Christian who mocks the none pig eating Muslim for his preference , whilst both being scoffed at by the none shelfish eating Jew, as quite ridiculous and vice versa.
    I also see the education system heavily influenced by religious instruction/influence , a situation that raises few eyebrows. It is accepted without question generally.
    Can you imagine the uproar if a proposal for a Socialists only school , or a Fascists only school were to be aired ? I really don't see that much of a difference and think that education should be a largely secular experience for people, with children being allowed to choose to become religious ( or not ) later in life.
    I would like to see the time given to religious instruction in schools exchanged for more practical subjects like anger management/emotional studies , parenthood and child development , health and childcare , understanding the opposite sex more ( relationships ), Community and Environment etc etc.

    Suffice to say , like all things man made there is good and bad in religion and its followers , imo. I just find it overly intrusive in too many aspects of everyday life and think the promise/belief of another life after this one devalues the preciousness of life in the here and now.

    It is also the cause , and has been the cause , of many of the darker doings of Humankind. But you can't blame God for that.
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    I don't think atheists want to be logical. They may begin by saying their is no God because of logic but they forget that there is also plenty of evidence that there is a God, so they are basically the same as Christians to me; they believe in ignorance. Maybe they are even worse than Christians in this regard, they claim reason backs up their claims but it really doesn't.

    Anyway, agnostics and atheists. I think most agnostics end up turning into atheists. I know people who were once righteous agnostics, saying something like "There is no proof for a God and no proof that there is no God". But then they end up ignoring the second part completely. But there are also the type of agnostics that don't care and therefore I don't really care about their beliefs, if that makes sense.

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