View Poll Results: The Western World: Your View?

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  • I believe in the West and I also consider Countries from Eastern Europe and former Warsaw Pact Countries from Central Europe (East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Hungary) Western.

    13 38.24%
  • I believe in the West and I don't consider Countries from Eastern Europe Western, but I consider former Warsaw Pact Countries from Central Europe (East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Hungary) Western.

    5 14.71%
  • I believe in the West and I don't consider Countries from Eastern Europe and former Warsaw Pact Countries from Central Europe (East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Hungary) Western.

    7 20.59%
  • I believe in the West but I have another Definition of this Concept (and I will explain it below).

    16 47.06%
  • I don't believe in the West.

    4 11.76%
  • I am not sure/I want to see the Votes.

    17 50.00%
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Thread: Your View on the Concept of 'Western World'?

  1. #21
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    Once again... more nonsense about my former country. This is getting really old.

    "The wall" will continue to exist in minds as long as the Westerners keep trying to deny our identities. The "reunification" was an annexation in truth. We didn't join our constitutions, laws, anthems and the like, we were stripped from ours and adopted everything from the FRG. What kind of "reunification" is that? The anti-GDR paranoia was so big that they just removed everything that had to do with East German culture, whether it was Soviet influenced or not. The West has and continues to discriminate against East Germans. Culturally and lawfully. The FRG is teaching us to be ashamed of our history because of the Holocaust and to be ashamed of our history because of the GDR. Bavarian historians claiming their Ludwig II. is no different from East German historians claiming their Luther. We too had and have the right to be proud of our heritage.

    I couldn't give a damn about being part of any "Western" or "White" world anyway, I am German and that's what matters to me.

  2. #22
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    You know what just forget it, I am tired to justify my identity to those who deny it, maybe one day when your countries and regions get taken over by Islam and when you're denied your national and regional identities you will understand how bad it feels. It's inevitable anyway, two boroughs of my city have turned into mini-Turkey and Kurdistan already.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    Excuse me, but it was the DDR that wanted one Germany, it was there in the constitution, the anthem and the wishes of the politicians. They wanted a strong socialist Germany but Adenauer didn't want an influential SED in his sphere so it wasn't possible. But because the West discriminated agaisnt their ideology, they gradually distanced themselves as it wasn't possible.
    Why do you buy that "East Germany is different from the rest"-stuff? eyes: You sadly suffer on political propaganda. In history there was never a difference between East Germany and West Germany! These stupid "differences" were a consequence of the 2nd world war and the strategics of the powers behind (USSR and NATO).

    If you´d go back to the time before 2nd Worldwar and would talk about the "difference" of East and West Germany like you do here in the forums, people wouldn´t even understand what you´re talking about because they hadn´t this artifical barrier in their head at this time! There was one Germany, regardless of North, South, East or West. It annoys me that the heart of some users is filled up with "Ostalgia" so much that they forgot that the history of Germany is millenias old.
    Do you think that Martin Luther made difference between "Eastern Germany" and "Western Germany"? Or Goethe? Schiller?

    Why is Niedersachsen part of "Western Germany" while Sachsen and "Sachsen-Anhalt" are parts of "East Germany"? Don´t you see how ridiculous this is? : There is only one German Saxon tribe! And many states of Germany are products of the after-war phase, nothing else. Artificial, foreign decisions, like uniting some swabian and badensic tribes to "Baden-Würtemberg". Like the inner-german border. Like this unneeded "There is an East and a West Germany"-ideology.
    Whether you like it or not, the DDR is part of East German history.
    There wasn´t an "East German" history before 1945. So what you call "East German history" is nothing else than the artifical DDR-history.
    The fact that we were responding to Allies doesn't change it because the West was too.
    You should hear you talking/writing...*sigh* eyes: "We" versus "The West". You subconsciously divide the nation. "We, the Ossies" on the one side, and the "others, the Wessies" on the other side. You forget that we always were an unity besides these ~41 GDR years. You (and some others) set these 41 years higher than the centuries before. This saddens me.

    It´s always the same. The biggest foes of German "Einheit" are Germans themselves. As long as you divide, nothing positive will happen. United we stand, divided we fall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ossi View Post
    "The wall" will continue to exist in minds as long as the Westerners keep trying to deny our identities. The "reunification" was an annexation in truth.
    The "East German" people wanted the reunification themselves. Just look at the Sonntagsdemos at Leipzig for example. "Wir sind ein Volk" was a very wise slogan, some people should keep it in mind nowadays...

    "Judge of your natural character by what you do in your dreams" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie View Post
    Why do you buy that "East Germany is different from the rest"-stuff? eyes: You sadly suffer on political propaganda. In history there was never a difference between East Germany and West Germany! These stupid "differences" were a consequence of the 2nd world war and the strategics of the powers behind (USSR and NATO).
    Because we are different, we aren't the same. The only propaganda I was fed was BRD propaganda, fortunately it didn't affect me unlike with other Germans.

    If you´d go back to the time before 2nd Worldwar and would talk about the "difference" of East and West Germany like you do here in the forums, people wouldn´t even understand what you´re talking about because they hadn´t this artifical barrier in their head at this time!
    And if you go back in time to the Nordic Bronze Age there weren't differences between "Germans" and "English" either, neither was there a Bavarian dialect. eyes:

    There was one Germany, regardless of North, South, East or West. It annoys me that the heart of some users is filled up with "Ostalgia" so much that they forgot that the history of Germany is millenias old.
    Do you think that Martin Luther made difference between "Eastern Germany" and "Western Germany"? Or Goethe? Schiller?
    I haven't forgot any history. In this one Germany there are regional differences. Between North and South, East and West and so on.

    Why is Niedersachsen part of "Western Germany" while Sachsen and "Sachsen-Anhalt" are parts of "East Germany"? Don´t you see how ridiculous this is? : There is only one German Saxon tribe! And many states of Germany are products of the after-war phase, nothing else. Artificial, foreign decisions, like uniting some swabian and badensic tribes to "Baden-Würtemberg". Like the inner-german border. Like this unneeded "There is an East and a West Germany"-ideology.
    These regions aren't the same, different varieties of dialects are spoken there and some historians dispute the "Saxonness" of Saxony for example, they claim only Lower Saxony is truly Saxon.

    There wasn´t an "East German" history before 1945. So what you call "East German history" is nothing else than the artifical DDR-history.
    I'll repeat. In this one Germany there are regional differences. Between North and South, East and West and so on.

    You should hear you talking/writing...*sigh* eyes: "We" versus "The West". You subconsciously divide the nation. "We, the Ossies" on the one side, and the "others, the Wessies" on the other side. You forget that we always were an unity besides these ~41 GDR years. You (and some others) set these 41 years higher than the centuries before. This saddens me.

    It´s always the same. The biggest foes of German "Einheit" are Germans themselves. As long as you divide, nothing positive will happen. United we stand, divided we fall.
    I'm not dividing any Germans, I want a united Germany. I wasn't the one who said regional mixing is wrong. I have no problem with West Germans but I want my region's history respected. Unity doesn't mean ignoring the various cultures within a country. I haven't told you how to call yourself so I find it offending that you do this to me.

    The "East German" people wanted the reunification themselves. Just look at the Sonntagsdemos at Leipzig for example. "Wir sind ein Volk" was a very wise slogan, some people should keep it in mind nowadays...
    It's Montagsdemos and neither Ossi nor I were ever denying that we are one people. The East Germans were, as I said, the first who wanted a united Germany. However, the reunification was realized as a farce because we were assimilated, annexated, not united truly. If Germany annexes Austria tomorrow and denies its culture and history then it's not true unification. We just wanted a true unification where we could live side by side and respect one another. We weren't respected and still aren't. Because here just like in society there's nothing wrong about asking a Bavarian flag as separate from Germany or a Bavarian banner which is separate from Germany, but if someone feels an East German identity, then it's oh such a horror! eyes: You are denying us the history of our country. You are discriminating against us.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    Because we are different, we aren't the same.
    Hmm. *sigh*
    So why do you call yourself a "German nationalist" if you think that some Germans aren´t the same as other Germans!? Are we one nation or not? Are we German people or not? "We Germans" OR "They Germans" versus "Us Germans"??
    Is your nationalism only in favor of artificial Eastern Germany? Then you shouldn´t call yourself "nationalistic" at all.
    And if you go back in time to the Nordic Bronze Age there weren't differences between "Germans" and "English" either, neither was there a Bavarian dialect. eyes:
    To hold your point you must go back millenias of ages. I have to go back only around 60 years to show you that a seperate East German culture is non-existant in reality. A zeitgeist-streaming doesn´t make an own culture automatically.
    I haven't forgot any history. In this one Germany there are regional differences. Between North and South, East and West and so on.
    Surely there are regional differences, but we are all Germans nonetheless.
    I have no problem with West Germans but I want my region's history respected. Unity doesn't mean ignoring the various cultures within a country. I haven't told you how to call yourself so I find it offending that you do this to me.
    The DDR existed a little bit longer than 40 years. This time-span is surely not long enough to give birth to an own sovereign culture ("culture" in a scientifical understanding). German unity and German identity as well as German culture was forged during many centuries. I can´t accept that people deny this united culture just for these less decades when we was split up by foreign powers.
    We just wanted a true unification where we could live side by side and respect one another.
    This is my wish, too, but what I see is that some people prefer to hail the GDR day by day instead of praising whole Germany. You mustn´t and shouldn´t love the BRD, but you exclude big parts of Germany only because they were part of the BRD during that 50 years after the 2nd Worldwar. It´s unfair.
    We weren't respected and still aren't.
    How should I respect you as a "German sister" if you insist on being viewed as something different?
    Because here just like in society there's nothing wrong about asking a Bavarian flag as separate from Germany or a Bavarian banner which is separate from Germany, but if someone feels an East German identity, then it's oh such a horror! eyes: You are denying us the history of our country. You are discriminating against us.
    You get something wrong: I wave the Bavarian flag only as my state flag. I have no problem to wave the Schwarz-Rot-Gold German flag of our nation - since I do.

    It´s not me who wants the GDR flag included into the Althing to show all others that you see yourself as something different to other Germans. eyes: How can I accept you if you doesn´t even want to wave our proud German Revolution flag along with the other Germans in board?

    You divide yourself from us, and then you are critizising that you are being shown as something else. That´s not really logical, you know? You want to go a path which other Germans can´t follow. Because a "Western German" using the GDR-flag would be a stupid and senseless thing. So you want to make two parts out of one part. I repeat myself: This saddens me.

    "Judge of your natural character by what you do in your dreams" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  6. #26
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    The 40-some years of the DDR was not the only period that could have given that region a character distinct from that of the former West Germany. The border approximates that between the part of Europe that emerged out of the decomposition of the Carolingian Empire and the side marked by XII century Germanic expansion eastward reinforced by the second serfdom of the later middle ages in which generally Germanic lords ruled mostly Slavic peasants.

    From the wikipedia entry on the Carolingian Empire:
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    The worst is not without worth.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie View Post
    Hmm. *sigh*
    So why do you call yourself a "German nationalist" if you think that some Germans aren´t the same as other Germans!? Are we one nation or not? Are we German people or not? "We Germans" OR "They Germans" versus "Us Germans"??
    Is your nationalism only in favor of artificial Eastern Germany? Then you shouldn´t call yourself "nationalistic" at all.
    Of course some Germans are not the same as other Germans and you know it. Why did you vote regional mixing is wrong? Why would you prefer someone who speaks your dialect and lives in your region? Surely, if all Germans were the same, you wouldn't have such preferences.

    I've said it that I am in favor of a united Germany! Valkyrie, you aren't familiar with East German separatism at all. I have experience with it here and I oppose it because I want one (socialist) Germany, not two Germany's. But that doesn't mean I have to deny my history and the good things of my former country or my regional identity.

    To hold your point you must go back millenias of ages. I have to go back only around 60 years to show you that a seperate East German culture is non-existant in reality. A zeitgeist-streaming doesn´t make an own culture automatically.
    Not true, please look at Loddfafner's map.

    Surely there are regional differences, but we are all Germans nonetheless.
    Who ever denied this?

    The DDR existed a little bit longer than 40 years. This time-span is surely not long enough to give birth to an own sovereign culture ("culture" in a scientifical understanding). German unity and German identity as well as German culture was forged during many centuries. I can´t accept that people deny this united culture just for these less decades when we was split up by foreign powers.
    I never denied German culture, I am arguing about a regional culture in the East! Does it make sense to call all Germans Bavarian? Is anyone requesting that? No. Neither am I. Can you understand that?

    This is my wish, too, but what I see is that some people prefer to hail the GDR day by day instead of praising whole Germany. You mustn´t and shouldn´t love the BRD, but you exclude big parts of Germany only because they were part of the BRD during that 50 years after the 2nd Worldwar. It´s unfair.
    I didn't exclude any parts of Germany. How many times do I have to repeat it? Regionalism and localism doesn't mean separatism! But I am and will continue to be agaisnt the BRD, because it's not "the whole of Germany" and because it has caused damage to my people.

    How should I respect you as a "German sister" if you insist on being viewed as something different?
    I didn't ask you to consider me your sister or to view me as the same as you.

    You get something wrong: I wave the Bavarian flag only as my state flag. I have no problem to wave the Schwarz-Rot-Gold German flag of our nation - since I do.
    Then why is there a banner for "Bavaria", not "Germany 6" with a Bavarian flag? I don't see a banner with a Berliner flag. The Bavarian flag should be removed from the banner and replaced with a Germany flag, for the sake of unity and nationalism.

    It´s not me who wants the GDR flag included into the Althing to show all others that you see yourself as something different to other Germans. eyes: How can I accept you if you doesn´t even want to wave our proud German Revolution flag along with the other Germans in board?

    You divide yourself from us, and then you are critizising that you are being shown as something else. That´s not really logical, you know? You want to go a path which other Germans can´t follow. Because a "Western German" using the GDR-flag would be a stupid and senseless thing. So you want to make two parts out of one part. I repeat myself: This saddens me.
    I asked for the DDR to be included as a state flag, to have both flags. I never said West Germans should use it. It should be used by those East Germans who look up to the good things in their former country. It makes no sense for a Saxon to wave a Bavarian flag either.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrie View Post
    The "East German" people wanted the reunification themselves. Just look at the Sonntagsdemos at Leipzig for example. "Wir sind ein Volk" was a very wise slogan, some people should keep it in mind nowadays...
    Like I said before, it was East Germany who was the first to want reunification, under the banner of socialism.

    The SED wanted a UNITED Germany until the 60s. They wanted this united Germany to be neutral, socialist and democratic. But the Western Germans and Adenauer didn't want the SED in the parlaimanent of a united Germany. The SED was strong, so he preferred a free socialist Germany, separated from them. The East keeps being blamed for the division of Germany but the East wanted a united Germany first, only under socialism. That's why, when the lyrics were sung, the anthem included the words "Deutschland, einig Vaterland", "Germany, UNITED fatherland." After they built the Berlin wall the text wasn't sung anymore. It didn't make any sense because there was no united Germany goal anymore. As the Westerners refused socialism, the East distanced itself.
    I was on the streets when the Berlin Wall fell. I saw the events with my own eyes. Our state was sold by the traitors in the SED who took advantage of Honecker's terminal illness. We were sold to the FRG and the "reunification" was assimilation. The FRG accepted reunification only when the SED was weakened. These poor East German fellows didn't know what was waiting for them. They were full of hopes that something would improve for them because of the stupid "Western paradise" propaganda that reached us, and now nearly 20 years later many of these East Germans who demonstrated actually want socialism back. Because the FRG has destroyed what was left of the economy, has closed East German facilities and workplaces, spends its funding on demolishing our buildings while we starve on the street. The government discriminates against East Germans. We are payed less dole than the Wessis. Where is the "Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit" then? What kind of reunification and equality is that Valkyrie, when my people are being stripped of their history and forced denazification and other FRG propaganda in our throats?

    You have a bias against socialism and I'm not surprised, considering the indoctrination programs in the FRG. But we never called for separatism. We never said Germany should split in two. On the contrary. However, we are never going to accept the constant denigration of our former country. It's a disrespect to our history and to your own history too, because it is the history of a part of Germany. A part of Germany that preserved the German ethnicity throghout these decades under socialism.

  9. #29
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    I guess I would be "Western" but to be honest, I couldn't care less about this concept. I identify with Germany and Europe, that's where it basically ends. I am glad to be leaving the US for good soon and I want nothing more to do with it any longer.

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    History of East Germany before the DDR

    The territories of East Germany were settled by Germanic peoples during the last few centuries BC. During the post-Roman migration period, many of these populations left for other lands, and Slavic Wends settled in their wake. German imperial rulers conquered the area during the Middle Ages. The newly acquired land was organized in margravates, German feudal states on the land of Slavs. Consequent waves of German settlements, which in subsequent centuries later included French Hugenots and Jews, gradually modified the originally Slavic composition of the land, except for the small community of Sorbs in Lusatia, and eventually most of what is now East Germany formed a large part of the historical Kingdom of Prussia.

    In Imperial Germany and later during the time of the Weimar Republic, territory that would become East Germany was situated in the center of the state. This territory was known as "Mitteldeutschland" (Middle Germany), while the designation "East" was reserved for provinces such as eastern Pomerania, eastern Brandenburg, Silesia and East and West Prussia.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germany#History

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