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Thread: Do Individuals Control History, or Do History and Fate Control Individuals?

  1. #11
    Senior Member paraplethon's Avatar
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    Couldn't you say also though that ALL history is revision - it is loaded with either the historians agenda or the agenda of those the historian uses as sources?

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    Senior Member Rev. Jupiter's Avatar
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    History is the record of time. Time is an abstract concept describing the observation of changing in material states of existence. This observation requires individuals. Accordingly, I would say that individuals drive history, since there would be no history without individuals.

  3. #13
    Senior Member paraplethon's Avatar
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    I would say that individuals drive history, since there would be no history without individuals.
    Well, yes.

    The history that is driven however is loaded with the agenda or the preconceptions of the historian - people see what they want to see.

    Basically, history is much more often than not subjective.

  4. #14
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    "History will be kind to me, as I intend to write." --Winston Churchill.

    Of course, we all know that Churchill was a warmongering, anti-German, vile scumbag

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    Senior Member paraplethon's Avatar
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    ^^^That's a very accurate quote from him nonetheless!

    If an historian (or Churchill for that matter) defended his position claiming an objective view, that belief in objectivity he carries is naught but ego. If he further claims to be free of ego - that is ego unbridled, uncomparable and perhaps the most dangerous kind.

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    Men, specifically great men, make history.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man_theory

    The Great Man Theory is associated most often with 19th-century commentator and historian Thomas Carlyle, who commented that "The history of the world is but the biography of great men," reflecting his belief that heroes shape history through both their personal attributes and divine inspiration.[4] In his book On Heroes, Hero-Worship and the Heroic in History, Carlyle set out how he saw history as having turned on the decisions of "heroes", giving detailed analysis of the influence of several such men (including Muhammad, Shakespeare, Luther, Rousseau, and Napoleon). Carlyle also felt that the study of great men was "profitable" to one's own heroic side; that by examining the lives led by such heroes, one could not help but uncover something about one's true nature.[5]

    This theory is usually contrasted with a theory that talks about events occurring in the fullness of time, or when an overwhelming wave of smaller events cause certain developments to occur. The Great Man approach to history was most fashionable with professional historians in the 19th century; a popular work of this school is the Encyclopedia Britannica Eleventh Edition (1911) which contains lengthy and detailed biographies about the great men of history, but very few general or social histories. For example, all information on the post-Roman "Migrations Period" of European History is compiled under the biography of Attila the Hun. This heroic view of history was also strongly endorsed by some philosophical figures such as Hegel, Nietzsche, and Spengler, but it fell out of favor after World War II.

    In Untimely Meditations, Nietzsche writes that: "...the goal of humanity lies in its highest specimens"

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    I've had some success with predicting the future. I can recall at one point doing a tarot reading for a guy in a chat room and being confused by an "international travel" card. I asked the guy about that, and he told me that he was going to be shipped off to Iraq. Up until that point, I hadn't even known he was in the millitary. I've had other experiences in a similar way.

    I personally think we have "appointments with destiny" in other worlds, you will experience what is supposed to happen to you, but what you do afterwards influences the future possibilities of the universe itself (we being a part of the universe). We make Wyrd, and Wyrd makes us.

    And future prediction is possible, to an extent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorm the Old View Post
    History and fate control the destinies of weak individuals. Strong individuals influence, at least temporarily, the course of history.
    Fate determines history but not neccessarily the specifics of how it plays out. Thus the strong control the destinies of the weak by controling the specifics of the course that history takes.

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    History in the sense of "what actually happened" and individuals are the same, it's like asking "does the mass of the ball or the mass of the earth cause the ball to accelerate".
    Denn das Schöne ist nichts
 als des Schrecklichen Anfang, den wir noch grade ertragen,
 und wir bewundern es so, weil es gelassen verschmäht, uns zu zerstören.

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