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Thread: Pan-Germanic America: Defining an American Pan-Germanic Identity

  1. #11
    Senior Member Soten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siebenbürgerin View Post
    Indeed, when I hear "Native Americans" I assume someone is talking about the American Indians.
    At the time the flag was made (1800's) no one was as politically correct to call the Amerindians "Native Americans". They were simply injuns or savages. Back then when the term "Native American" was used it meant an American native, that is, one of the Anglo-Americans as opposed to all immigrants.

    P.S. The land is ours now. I'm native.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanseMacabre View Post
    Do you believe that since Americans are typically of two or more Germanic heritages; that a pan-Germanic movement would be best for America[?]
    It is an interesting concept. Would they be the sworn enemies of a pan-Celtic movement?
    Quote Originally Posted by DanseMacabre View Post
    But since America is different in that it's European descened people are not soley of one Germanic heritage that a pan-germanic movement would be best.
    There are many Americans of only one Germanic heritage. I would rather more mixing did not occur.

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    I never heard the phrase 'Native American" in reference to US Indians until the 70s when multicultural lefties & Indian activists started using it, as if calling them "Native" would enhance their political standing. I prefer calling them Siberian-Americans.:p

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  7. #14
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    Pan-anything is dubious. The UK is pan-British and look where that got England.

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  9. #15
    Senior Member Soten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneEnglishNorman View Post
    Pan-anything is dubious. The UK is pan-British and look where that got England.
    Which is why I wouldn't support a pan-Germanic America I guess. That seems to imply that everyone would try to be "German" or "English" when they may not be. And in trying to be "German" and "English" and "Dutch" the US would end up being fractured.

    Which is why I would rather take the Celtogermanic Americans and set them aside as "Americans"...unless of course they really truly are Norwegian, etc.

    And trust me there are far far more Americans who are atleast three or more (most times atleast 3 - 5) ethnicities, in a way of speaking. And even those Americans who are purely English for example obviously have more ties to other celtogermanic Americans than the English proper. I wouldn't even call them English unless they were honestly English, but I guess that's easier to see with say an Austrian. If the so-called "Austrian" can not even speak German and has no idea about Austria yet shares everything with the rest of celtogermanic Americans I would only naturally assume he belongs more to those celtogermanic Americans than Austrians proper. Then again if this hypothetical Austrian was really upset about the whole deal...well there's always Austria.

    I don't think this would in any way exclude learning about the culture of your ancestors from Europe.

    erm...united we stand divided we fall???...

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneEnglishNorman View Post
    Pan-anything is dubious. The UK is pan-British and look where that got England.
    I agree. I am skeptic of pan-Anythings. I am in Favor of Regional Preservation and National Preservation. There still are many Americans who have predominant Identities from one Nationality. They don't have to be "pure" Anglo-Saxon or German to preserve their Language and Culture.

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    "Native American" was, if I remember right, a term made up by some bureaucrat in the census bureau under the Nixon administration. Indians have soundly rejected it, and some convention of tribal chiefs voted for a resolution asking that people just call them by their tribal names, or just Indians, anything but "native american."

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  13. #18
    Senior Member Soten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanseMacabre View Post
    The aim of a pan-germanic organization could be educating Americans about the different Germanic cultures, languages, etc. that make up America and the need to relearn and preserve these.
    The problem is that this would destroy a lot of the old American values and culture. Not to mention that it would have the unfortunate effect of some really half-assed attempts to be "Dutch" for instance. I would hate to see some American wearing clogs and installing swinging Dutch doors to his home while his wife sits nearby wearing a bonnet.

    You really can't just transplant a culture onto a people and expect them to carry it out like their ancestors may have done. In any case the "relearned" culture would be heavily influenced by American culture and values, etc.

    Most older American families will have their own American way of doing things in my opinion and this is unique and it too should be preserved. I don't know why people would think that all Americans have no culture whatsoever. My guess is that due to recent things like commercialism and maybe even TV and Hollywood in general anything American has been mischaracterized and pulled down to the lowest degree. Not to mention the whole multi-culti effect which has had a serious effect on watering everything down and demonizing the so-called "American Anglo-core culture".

    It would have been much less understandable to say that all Americans had no culture pre-1950 and maybe even more so pre-30s/20s. What existed back then was the so-called "Anglo-core" which so many recent sociologists have shamelessly considered hateful. Everyone was expected to be in that core culture more or less. No negroes, no chinamen, nothing except Europeans...and even then it excluded Southern and Eastern Europeans by and large. As you may be able to tell, if you take a map of Europe and exclude the south and the east you will end up with only the Celtic and Germanic countries and it is these people who were considered "American". And what is more they needed to be "Americanized".

    So, again, it seems to me that it would be much easier/common sense/natural to go back to that and try to consider ourselves "American". I've heard of the American ethnicity initiative from several people now, but I can never figure out from them what or who is considering this. So far only me and a few nods on this forum. I think the "American as an ethnicity" thing would probably be the best solution.

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  15. #19
    Senior Member DanseMacabre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soten View Post
    I would be more inclined to support an "American" ethnicity initiative. These "Americans" would be overwhelmingly of Germanic and Celtic stock anyhow, so it's similar. But the difference would be in emphasising the New World as our home and also the unity of one group over a big umbrella group that supports whatever the members' numerous ethnicities are.

    That being said I think there would certainly be no reason for these "Americans" not to learn about their Old World ancestors.
    I agree with this. Perhaps pan-germanic was the wrong term. I was never quite sure about what to call it.

    Which is why I wouldn't support a pan-Germanic America I guess. That seems to imply that everyone would try to be "German" or "English" when they may not be. And in trying to be "German" and "English" and "Dutch" the US would end up being fractured.
    Yes, this was my problem with the name as well and that wasn't what I was in favor of. I'm more in favor of Americans being Americans but reconnecting with their Germanic roots.

    Which is why I would rather take the Celtogermanic Americans and set them aside as "Americans"...unless of course they really truly are Norwegian, etc.

    And trust me there are far far more Americans who are atleast three or more (most times atleast 3 - 5) ethnicities, in a way of speaking. And even those Americans who are purely English for example obviously have more ties to other celtogermanic Americans than the English proper. I wouldn't even call them English unless they were honestly English, but I guess that's easier to see with say an Austrian. If the so-called "Austrian" can not even speak German and has no idea about Austria yet shares everything with the rest of celtogermanic Americans I would only naturally assume he belongs more to those celtogermanic Americans than Austrians proper. Then again if this hypothetical Austrian was really upset about the whole deal...well there's always Austria.

    I don't think this would in any way exclude learning about the culture of your ancestors from Europe.

    erm...united we stand divided we fall???...
    I agree here too.
    “Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people, a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs-Jon Jay, Federalist Papers

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  17. #20
    Senior Member Soten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanseMacabre View Post
    I agree with this. Perhaps pan-germanic was the wrong term. I was never quite sure about what to call it.



    Yes, this was my problem with the name as well and that wasn't what I was in favor of. I'm more in favor of Americans being Americans but reconnecting with their Germanic roots.



    I agree here too.
    HAHA. OK, now that we're in such agreement, read what I posted just a second before you did. Sorry, bad timing.

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