View Poll Results: Should Education be free?

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  • Yes.

    18 56.25%
  • Only some Education should be free but not all, for Example higher Education should require Fees.

    7 21.88%
  • No.

    5 15.63%
  • Other Option/I want to see the Votes.

    2 6.25%
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Thread: Should Education Be Free?

  1. #11
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    In the US, Catholics schools have an excellent reputation of providing a quality education. And Catholic schools are entirely financed by fees & donations, not tax dollars. Before the sixties it was the norm for Catholics to attend parochial schools. not public. In the South many White children attend White Chrisitan academies which sprung up in oppisition to integration. Private academies - many secular - have also sprung up in Arizona for parents looking for more traditional teaching methods that result in better performance then the more modern methods preferred by public schools. There is also the race factor. My niece's boyfriend had to enroll in a private school after being threaten by Mexicans at his public high school. Another advantage to private schools is the parents are much more involved in the operation of the school & there is much more volunteerism on the part of students & parents in the running of the schools which helps to bring down operational costs.

    The primary reason for public schools is to indoctrinate children into the orthodoxies of the state, e.g. multiculturalism, liberal democracy (Marxism), Feminism, homosexual rights etc... Public schools also provide employment to members of the left-winged teachers union, one of the most powerful supporters of the Democratic Party. But many public schools are terrible at educating children & the teachers union is primarily responsible for the policy of drugging millions of school-age children with drugs such as Ritalin & Cylert for the convience of teachers. The public schools are a failure & a burden to taxpayers. I say abolish them. Let parents organize their own schools, which would be easier to do with a lighter tax-load. Some people will freakout at this suggestion, but those children who's families would have the hardest time providing a private education, are the ones who are already receiving the poorest kind of public education which will leave them semi-literate at best after 12-years. And at least if they are out of the public school system, they would not be exposed to the multicultural, Marxist nonsense, which seems to be the primary reason for the existence of public schools.

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    Senior Member DanseMacabre's Avatar
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    I think any State should put the protection and advancement of the race that created it as its number one priority. Education is key to keeping a race healthy. It should be the goal of a proper school system to send out into the world a mentally,physically, and emotionally healthy person. Of course this starts with the family, but should be aided by the educational system.

    I personally would support a publicly funded school system if we had a proper State. The state is merely a tool which can be used for good or evil. That said under current conditions public schools are the last place I would want my child.
    “Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people, a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs-Jon Jay, Federalist Papers

  3. #13
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    It's a difficult question. I think Ireland has a fair system;

    In Ireland, the primary-school system (from ages 4-12)was established by the church, with state support. Primary schools, referred to as "National Schools", are generally either Catholic or Protestant, often built on Church land and under the influence of their respective churches in terms of the religious teachings. Classes are thought, however, by lay teachers who are paid by the state.There are a few private primary schools including "Gael scoils" (where the working language is Irish) and Montessori's but these make up a only tiny minority.

    The secondary schools from (from 13-18 years) are more varied. Roughly half of these schools are run, administered and thought partially by religious orders. These are often referred to either as "colleges" in the case of the boy's school or "convents" in the case of the girl's. They are no longer fee paying but there is still an entrance exam. They are single-ed and tend to put more emphasis on the more academic subjects and on Gaelic Games. Fees are required only to board, not to go as a day pupil.Importantly, these schools, even though they are "semi-state" reserve the right to exclude disruptive pupils.

    The other half of schools are known as "tech's", short for technical colleges. They are entirely co-ed, they cover most subjects, but the quality of teaching is patchy and discipline among the student body is generally lower, especially in the more economically disadvantaged urban areas.


    The administration of these schools are somewhat ham-strung however, by the fact that even very unruly pupils cannot be expelled.
    I've heard horror stories from ex-students (who I met at university) of final-year classes existing in an almost perpetual state of mayhem with teachers coming in one after another, and trying to teach subjects while dodging anything from lumps of soggy toilet-roll to bits of chairs... This really is the biggest problem with education in Ireland, there is a section of the student body who just doesn't see the point of learning and won't obey authority, educating these children is a mission next to impossible to carry out.

    Serious students unfortunate enough to have to attend such a "school" who aim to study at third level, and who's parents can get the money, often go to a sort of fee paying school for the year of their final exams. This is probably something like a British 6th form college. The year costs about six or seven thousand euro in fees and just concentrates on the subjects the student needs in order to get into their college course.

    There are also a few fully private schools, a tiny minority, that cater mainly to families who have a history of going to them. These people include the Anglo-Irish and the remnants of the Protestant ascendency class and a few others; generally they what the rest of the country would snidely refer to as "West Brits".

    I actually have a cousin who's father did well for himself and took a notion of sending this son to one of these schools as a day-boy. From what I can make out, he didn't quite fit in there. He used to get called a "nouvo" which, within the micro-culture of the school was short for "nouvo riche". According to my cousin there was also a strange snobbery among the group of students who had also gone to the attached fee paying junior-school towards those who hadn't..

    Third level education in Ireland is free of fees. Entry to a course is granted based on points achieved in the leaving cert, the final state exam. The Points required for a particular course are calculated based on the number of college places available and on the points scored by the applicants. Places are awarded to those applicants who score the highest points. This leads to fierce competition for the more sought after courses such as Law and Medicine where almost full marks are required in six subjects order to win a place.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death and the Sun View Post
    Nothing is ever free.
    I agree. The idea of "free-education" is a sham and the role of government is not to provide for its people.

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    You've got to ask yourself- Who is providing the education, and why are they doing so? Likely not out of the goodness of their hearts you know what I mean?

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    Free ?

    The question should be "Should education be publicly funded and , if so, up to what level ? In Connecticut, education is publicly funded for thirteen years and attendance is supposed to be compulsory until age 16.

    Aye, there's the rub. It is impossible to educate students who are unwilling to learn. If their parents and the stratum of society in which they live hold education in disesteem, many of the students will be but "time-servers" .

    I think that I should point out at this point, that I have not taught in the public schools myself. However, the college in which I taught was originally a teacher's college and there was plenty of feedback from our student teachers.We got to hear all the horror stories.

    Needless to say, the pupils were on their best behaviour (such as it was) whenever an observer from the teacher's college was in the classroom. And, of course, the administrators of the schools knew nothing about any disciplinary problems. How could they ? They wouldn't listen !

    Of course, it is supposed to be the teacher's responsibility to "motivate" the students to desire to learn. I learned long ago, at the beginning of a 32-year career in education, that motivation comes from within, NOT from without. Those who are hostile to the very idea of being educated will remain so despite any efforts on the part of the teacher.

    Yet, these misfits are REQUIRED to occupy space in the classroom until age 16. They devote their time there to earnest and, for the most part, successful efforts to disrupt the educational process. But woe betide the teacher who fails, in some systems, too many, in others, ANY of these trouble-makers.

    One might reasonably expect the administrators to assist the teachers in maintaining discipline and a classroom atmosphere conducive to learning.
    Instead, the teachers are told "Let it be a challenge to you."

    So, why are there so many incompetents and lackadaisical teachers in the inner-city schools ? Because good conscientious teachers are so badly treated that they won't work there.

    Passing every pupil regardless of how bad his performance is isn't the answer, neither is making him repeat the class year after year until he is sixteen. Academic probation for a year followed by mandatory expulsion after a second year of failing grades seems to be the only fair solution. The taxpayers, who are supporting the unsuccessful efforts to educate this intransigent pupil, are being cheated if the process is prolonged.

    A friend of mine who taught for 20 years in a publicly subsidised vocational school reported to me that useful courses which could lead to employment at a decent income, such as locksmithing and surveying, had repeatedly to be cancelled, not for lack of funding, but for lack of ENROLLMENT.

    The ineducables were perfectly willing to be unemployable as well. Do they turn to crime instead of gainful employment ? I don't know, but it seems very likely to me.

    For those who are willing and able to avail themselves of it, I think that primary and secondary education must be publicly funded. If high academic standards are maintained, the public education system will attract both good students and good teachers. This does not mean "Let no student be left behind.", but, rather "Let the chips fall where they may."

  7. #17
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    I agree that the state shouldn't provide education as a whole (I agree with Grom, ability for education comes from within anyways), but it should provide the information, so that everyone, who wants to learn something can do so by himself, independent of schools and degrees.

    Thus I think the copyright has to change, so that information is readily available, and a system for information gathering and distribution needs to be state funded, and state education in so far, that children (actually everyone) will need to learn how to use this system (which would include reading and basic math).
    And of course a nation wide standard for established professions, which translates to standardized exams that are provided by the state (the standards), but don't have to be compulsory.

    Then being a teacher will emerge as a new true profession, and universities will be a place of counseling and advice, instead of students who are totally dependent on the good-will of their professors, at least that's how it is in "free" university system right now.

    I should add, that I am for compulsory state "boy scouts" though, this is a service everyone should be capable of delivering, those who can't without a good excuse shouldn't be part of a nation, so I am not a "non-intervention libertarian"
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  8. #18
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    With libraries and now the internet, copyright protections are not an impediment to education. Even if one must buy books, $10-$30 for a book is a small cost compared to the thousands spent on public education. The only books which cost much more are books required by schools.
    Contact Congress on immigration
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    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." --Ben Franklin

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordOfTheVistula View Post
    Even if one must buy books, $10-$30 for a book is a small cost compared to the thousands spent on public education. The only books which cost much more are books required by schools.
    Incidentally, we are mostly talking about "books required by schools".
    A database providing all such information (papers, books) etc. would be needed.
    So far this is impossible with current copyright laws, I would reduce the copyright law to the mere mentioning of the author.
    It isn't much different from libraries, however since the availability of a data network is much higher, authors start worrying about their sales.
    Much like nobody cared about the piracy, when people just recorded music with cassettes .
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

  10. #20
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    Some education should be free for everyone. The basics. However, some education should be received within the family. If someone wants to further education, and he is not bright enough in the domain, the state shouldn't be responsible to fund him. He should pay for it. Information should also be free.

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