View Poll Results: Which is worse:

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  • To avoid fighting when it is necessary

    46 63.89%
  • To fight when it is unnecessary

    14 19.44%
  • To post unnecessary polls like this

    12 16.67%
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Thread: Fighting/Self-Defense ?

  1. #21
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    Shoot them in the leg, gut or shoulder. They'll live, get their day in court, and you'll hopefully get self-defense w/o attempted murder.

    If you shoot them in the chest or head, your intent was to kill, not so much defend.

    .357 or higher is usually an adequate enough wound to disable a robber/assailant, no matter where they're shot.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Psychonaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulf View Post
    Shoot them in the leg, gut or shoulder. They'll live, get their day in court, and you'll hopefully get self-defense w/o attempted murder.
    I don't know how good of a marksman you are, but when I do night-fire exercises, it's hard enough to hit center mass of a target, much less specifically aiming for a limb. Unless you live in a state like Hawaii where criminals have more rights than citizens, you're much safer just aiming center mass.
    "Ocean is more ancient than the mountains, and freighted with the memories and the dreams of Time."
    -H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #23
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    Well if you're unable to see or identify your target correctly enough I'm not too sure I would even discharge my firearm. I remember a story a while ago around here about a man who shot his daughter because she snuck out and came back into the house. The man thought she was upstairs asleep and that someone was breaking in.

    Shooting blind? No thanks, I'll go for the lights, then my gun...

  4. #24
    Senior Member Psychonaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulf View Post
    Well if you're unable to see or identify your target correctly enough I'm not too sure I would even discharge my firearm. I remember a story a while ago around here about a man who shot his daughter because she snuck out and came back into the house. The man thought she was upstairs asleep and that someone was breaking in.

    Shooting blind? No thanks, I'll go for the lights, then my gun...
    Well, I'd like to think that I'd be able to distinguish between a black guy (or in Hawaii's case a big Samoan guy) and my small children. As part of my job (US Army) I practice room clearing with paintball rounds regularly. I can tell you from personal experience, if your opponent is armed and sees you before you shoot, you're going to get hit. However, since it is a lot harder to his a target in absolute darkness, I always keep at least one light on down stars, just in case .
    "Ocean is more ancient than the mountains, and freighted with the memories and the dreams of Time."
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychonaut View Post
    Well, I'd like to think that I'd be able to distinguish between a black guy (or in Hawaii's case a big Samoan guy) and my small children.
    Hehe, same here, unless my children are ungodly large, in which case, my poor wife...

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychonaut View Post
    As part of my job (US Army) I practice room clearing with paintball rounds regularly. I can tell you from personal experience, if your opponent is armed and sees you before you shoot, you're going to get hit. However, since it is a lot harder to his a target in absolute darkness, I always keep at least one light on down stars, just in case .
    In absolute darkness, niether of you would really have an advantage, aside from the fact that you (personally) have probably fired thousands more rounds of ammunition.

    That said, I wouldn't fault anyone for killing an intruder, I feel that if given a slight advantage such as surprise, I would hopefully shoot to disable, not kill. If the intruder charged me, I would probably be to stressed to think ahead and would just outright shoot him anywhere.

    I only say this because all to often good people get put in jail for killing in defense. It might save your ass down the road if you're put on trial to say, "Well, I just shot him in the leg, I didn't want to kill him." Obviously not always possible, but an ideal situation.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Psychonaut's Avatar
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    Ulf, perhaps your geography has a bit to do with your thinking. I checked the state by state break down of Castle Doctrine in the US, and it turns out that your state is one of three in the entire country without any type of Castle Doctrine. I'm sure that my perspective has been affected by years of living in Florida and Alabama, where you're pretty much allowed to kill anyone who enters your home illegally. Apparently in Hawaii I'm supposed to make a retreat outside the home provided that it can be done in complete safety eyes:.
    "Ocean is more ancient than the mountains, and freighted with the memories and the dreams of Time."
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  7. #27
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    I think you might be right. My wife is inclined to agreed with you (we were just discussing this, plus she's from Michigan) but I would not want to be in the position of being jailed for defending myself. Hence my apprehension towards deadly force.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Leonhardt's Avatar
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    What are your thoughts on self defense? We use another legal term here, nödvärn, which translated means protection/force used in a situation of need, which broadens the scope a bit. How much force should a person be allowed to use to protect his family, property, life and or that of other? Are the laws in your country sufficient or would you like to see more rights being given to the citizen, or further restrictions on the use of force?
    I agree with the US legal concepts of "stand your ground", and the "castle law". These concepts mean that you do not have to retreat from combat, and you can defend your home like it was a castle.
    I think in some US states one can even defend their neighbor's home (possessions) with lethal force, and I agree with this. I wish this home defense legal protection was extended to dogs also.
    People in all states should be able to carry a concealed hand gun for self defense. There are too many restrictions on knife carry also.
    If it is reasonable to think that one's health is seriously threatened, then I think one is justified in using lethal force. They do not have to wait to be attacked.

    For home defense buckshot and 45acp hollow points are good choices.

  9. #29
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    In PA there's no law on the books for open-carrying and the procedure for concealed carry is 'accept anyone unless proven otherwise'. There's no knife length laws on the books aside from things like switchblades. I've been carrying one of these (the top one) since I want 15.

  10. #30
    Senior Member CrystalRose's Avatar
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    First off.. If an intruder enters my home it only proves one thing to to me: they have bad intentions. Whether it's rob, rape, etc. I'm grabbing the shotgun (any gun for that matter) in hopes they 'hear' the seriousness of the matter and that their life is in serious danger. Followed by my foot in their ***, hog tie them until the cops decide to show up an hour later. That's the risk they take being thieves. Part of the "job description" if you will. Them committing a crime sends all their so called rights out the wondow.
    Rights? haha. What rights do you have? 'You have the right to remain silent', but this is going to hurt like a mofo. If they're lucky I might fire off a warning.
    Part of me wouldn't want an intruder but the other part of me would love teaching someone a valuable lesson.

    Reminds me of a story, couple years back. A guy on the roof of some commercial property trying to break in.. ended up falling through the roof and sued! Do you believe that s***? I think he won too. Ridiculous.

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