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Thread: Are American/Canadian/Australian, Etc. Ethnicities?

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    Are American/Canadian/Australian, Etc. Ethnicities?

    Hello everyone,

    I notice there is a thread about American ethnicity on Stirpes.net which was interesting to read, so I figured we should discuss it over here since it came up in the ethnic mixing debate, why not?

    Do you think American/Canadian/Australian are ethnicities? Do they fit the requirements of what it takes to be an ethnic group? Who are the true/genuine Americans/Canadians/Australians? Can a first generation Germanic immigrant, such as myself, call himself an American the same way that a descendent of the founding fathers can? What about a non-Germanic, white immigrant? Why/why not? What about the aboriginals of these countries, like the Native Americans? Are they part of the American ethnicity?

    Thanks in advance.

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    Dear Nachthimmel,

    If you are addressing everyone, know that the correct exonym for my people is Independent Australian British.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talan View Post
    Dear Nachthimmel,

    If you are addressing everyone, know that the correct exonym for my people is Independent Australian British.
    Sorry, I happen not to know much about Australians. Hence my question. So you would say then that only the British are true Australians? What about an immigrant from Poland, Germany or Malta? Would he be considered a "wog"?

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    Dear Nachthimmel,

    The only true Independent British are those who hold British ideals (fatalism-agenticism) and reject socialism. The term Australian British denotes a model of inculturation, so there's no fixed line of demarcation.

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    Do you think American/Canadian/Australian are ethnicities?
    No

    Do they fit the requirements of what it takes to be an ethnic group?
    No

    Who are the true/genuine Americans/Canadians/Australians?
    Anyone who has citizenship, contributes to society, and respects the laws of the country

    Can a first generation Germanic immigrant, such as myself, call himself an American the same way that a descendent of the founding fathers can?
    Yep

    What about a non-Germanic, white immigrant?
    Yes

    What about the aboriginals of these countries, like the Native Americans? Are they part of the American ethnicity?
    I don't believe in an American ethnicity. They are American citizens. I think the US is a political invention, therefore no one is truly a "native". The "Native Americans" as we like to call them, are indigenous to the land that is now the US, but they are not native to a state built on immigration. If American were an ethnicity, we wouldn't have to differentiate between Natives and non-natives because one of the requirements for ethnicity is having native origins in the land (imo). And even if determining ethnicity was based primarily, or even partly on culture, the US also lacks any of its own. Any real "culture" that is in the US has been imported, and the little that is left has been destroyed by commercialization.

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    Hmmm... not meaning to be offensive here Talan... but you are not of British Isles blood are you? I'm assuming you must be more of a civic nationalist? Soil and culture, not blood, being important?

    Anyway, to answer the original question, I can't speak for other countries, but I don't believe that "Australian" itself is an ethnicity. I believe Australia to be an English land that was conquered and then built from the ground up to become what it is today by leaders/members of the British Empire. It was only after we "won" eyes: WW2 that immigrants (in significant numbers) from lands other than Ireland and Britain were permitted to work and live in Australia.

    I said as much on Stirpes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie
    "Great Britain" is dominated, and one could say ruled, by England (more or less... let's not get into discussions on the Bank of England here), therefore lands which were conquered by the British Empire and then claimed as part of the British Empire were basically English lands. This is the case with Australia too.

    Australia does have an ethnic identity in terms of the dominant population group being traditionally English. "Australia" was at its conception an Anglicised or English land built as a home (among other things) for people from the British Isles. This is changing now of course, and that's what ethnic nationalists like myself fight against.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie
    British colonies were lands conquered and controlled by Britain (which means ultimately England). Those colonies that were populated with English citizens then became English lands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie
    Australian nationalism cannot exist without simultaneous English nationalism. If this did not occur it would signal a siding with the multiculturalists and liberal politicians who seek to weaken and destroy Australia as it was intended to be by my ancestors and the founding fathers of Australia. My loyalty is to both England and Australia, as an English land.
    What can I say? I'm an idealist.


    PS - Reading that thread on Stripes reminded me of something... I'll tell you what I find quite irritating... is that many European ethnic nationalists that frequent these sorts of discussion boards like to prattle on about how Americans think they know it all and arrogantly butt into the other countries' business, yet they are the biggest offenders of the same behaviour. Where do these "Old Worlders" get off trying to tell "New Worlders" who they are, how inferior they are and what they should do??? How disrespectful.

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    Do you think American/Canadian/Australian are ethnicities?
    I am not certain. I doubt whether Australians can be called an ethicity since the mixing process only began around 50 years ago- when the first army of European immigrants entered the country. Before that there were just two groups: the descendants of the British crims and the aboriginals (same goes for New Zealand) In the US and Canada mixing began very early- as the colonies had already been filled by Europeans of French, Dutch, British, Swedish, German, Spanish and Danish descent, brought in by the Dutch, Swedes, British and French- and the Spanish in Florida.. as well as the Native Americans and the African slaves. Remember that the Americans themselves considered themselves a nation, a people since the 18th century. In the 19th century came the rest: Eastern Europeans, Germans, other Scandinvians, Greeks, Italians, Portuguese, Jews.... you name it and it came to the US. Same goes for the Canadians: originally just French and British colonists.. followed in the 18th and 19th century by wave after wave of immigrants. They have become a nation and a people with their own culture, language, literature and history and also their own (very mixed) genepool. As such do I not consider the USA or Canada to be Germanic but influenced by the Germanic culture- the same will go for Australia and New Zealand within 50 years.


    Do they fit the requirements of what it takes to be an ethnic group?
    Yes. They endless mixing of people from all over the world has created a new people. (We Europeans need to make sure that it won't happen to us).


    Who are the true/genuine Americans/Canadians/Australians?
    First of all the Natives.. second the people that have direct colonial and first wave immigrant-heritage. (that includes the descendants of the original slaves) For Australia and Canada: only the natives and descendants of the first colonists..


    Can a first generation Germanic immigrant, such as myself, call himself an American the same way that a descendent of the founding fathers can?
    Just as much as a foreign Dutchman can do it: No. He might have a passport but his children will only be American (or Dutch in the case of the foreign immigrant in the Netherlands) if their mother is. So effectively only his grandchildren can be called "American".

    What about a non-Germanic, white immigrant?
    No. Exactly the same as the case of the Germanic immigrant. It will however be wise to curtail non-Western (that includes Russian) immigration.


    What about the aboriginals of these countries, like the Native Americans?
    Well.. of course. They have done their part in the "Great Melting Pot" And they were the ones that originally lived there

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    Do you think American/Canadian/Australian are ethnicities?
    No way

    Do they fit the requirements of what it takes to be an ethnic group?

    No

    Who are the true/genuine Americans/Canadians/Australians?
    A legal citizen

    Can a first generation Germanic immigrant, such as myself, call himself an American the same way that a descendent of the founding fathers can?
    Yes

    What about a non-Germanic, white immigrant?
    Yes

    What about the aboriginals of these countries, like the Native Americans? Are they part of the American ethnicity?

    They are Americans too

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachthimmel
    So you would say then that only the British are true Australians? What about an immigrant from Poland, Germany or Malta? Would he be considered a "wog"?
    I would say only those that originate from the British Isles can be considered true Australians... although a small amount of admix from other European countries (particularly NW European) won't hurt.

    A first generation immigrant from any country will be considered to be the ethnicity of their home country. First gen. immigrants may gain Australian citizenship, but no one would really consider them to be Australian. Their accents are a dead give away, if nothing else. :p Some immigrants are welcomed and readily accepted (especially those from the British Isles), and others are viewed with disdain, distrust and often resentment.

    Second generation immigrants from the British Isles are always considered to be Australian. Those from other countries are generally not. Today, there are 3rd and even 4th generation immigrants from countries like Italy or Macedonia, and they are always considered to be Italian or Macedonian. They consider themselves this, and Australians consider them to be this. It is not politically correct, but this is the truth. Confusion arises when you have kids who are Italian/Australian, or Macedonian/Australian mixed though.

    The term "wog" is a derogatory term to describe Southern Italians, Greeks and those from the former Yugoslavia. It was coined (in the context it's used today) after the WW2 when considerable waves of immigrants from these countries began coming to Australia. Australians at the time were unaccustomed to people from these areas of Europe... they were generally suspicious and fearful of them from what I've been told and have read, and felt them to be a threat, so the word "wog" was used to not only put them down, but to describe a whole group of people that were not welcome in their new land.

    However, I've NEVER heard the term "wog" applied to anyone who doesn't come from SE Europe. Maybe it's different in the Eastern States though, I don't know. This is how it is in my part of Australia.

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    Today, there are 3rd and even 4th generation immigrants from countries like Italy or Macedonia, and they are always considered to be Italian or Macedonian. They consider themselves this, and Australians consider them to be this.
    Would a "British" Australian in their 20s seriously treat somebody else with two Italian grandparents (f.e.), as not fully Australian? Seems hard to believe.

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