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Thread: Are American/Canadian/Australian, Etc. Ethnicities?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deary View Post
    An old-stock American can walk around in his own region or other parts of the country, point and tell stories about how one of his ancestors died on that field, erected that monument, was married in that church, and so on. Their ancestors are printed in America's history books. Their blood, sweat and tears were shed here. Their family helped create this very country. The connections of a first generation immigrant are not well-established on American soil, and because they are newer Americans, their mindset probably differs a bit from that of an old-stock American or other American with a relatively long history here, as well.

    A+!

    This is exactly what I meant when I referred to 'continuity' of place and family for old-stockers. You just put in a much better way than I did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie View Post
    many of the Irish convicts were political prisoners.)
    And many of the English, too - see the 'Tolpuddle Martyrs' etc.
    Damn you fellows, siphening off our most politically aware! Might explain a lot...
    Not quite a 'Brain drain', but I fear to call it a 'Balls drain'...
    Quote Originally Posted by Resurgam View Post
    -Over arching ethnicity of Southerner for what was once divided between the Cohee and Tuckahoe.
    Ooh! Din't know that! Do tell!

    Anyway, I reckon that the peoples in the title were well on the way to forming sub-ethnicities, para-ethnicities, and bridge-ethnicities. When common blood (even mutually mixed blood in the same sorts of proportions as the rest of the mixed group) and common historical experience are combined, then something NEW is made. It's the fault of language and terminology that we struggle over whether it's this thing or another thing, surely.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Soten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allenson View Post
    That's an interesting notion.

    "Foreign" might be a bit strong but I know that whenever I travel outside of my home region up here but still within America, I do get the feeling of being "somewhere else" where people talk differently, act differently and the 'culture' is of another sort. And conversely, "people from away" (meaning from other parts of the US) are easy to spot around here.

    "Near-foreign" might work.
    Yeah. I can even spot people from different parts of my own state sometimes. I have a professor who I have thought was from "up north" PA since the first class. I kept wondering why he reminded me so much of people I know from up there. It turns out he actually lives somewhere around there...more to the middle of the state than I thought though.

    Anyway, I think it makes sense to acknowledge some of the geographic/cultural differences present. I've never eaten a crawfish so I guess I might be "near-foreign" to certain Southerners. The problem is where to break it down. You might make too large a group or maybe you could break it down too far into meaningless divisions. I'm fairly certain that even the English can differentiate between the south and the north and the midlands etc. with all the different ways each group does certain things differently. But they wouldn't include the Welsh...that's an outer limit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soten View Post
    I'm fairly certain that even the English can differentiate between the south and the north and the midlands etc. with all the different ways each group does certain things differently. But they wouldn't include the Welsh...that's an outer limit.
    I live on a main road that connects Manchester with one of the satellite towns in the Greater Manchester conurbation. This road is nine miles long. The people at either end of it speak completely different! I can tell them apart from miles away! Due to our slightly different schooling and circles of friends, myself, my sister and my brother have slightly differing accents! Mine is the halfway house local one in this small townlet, my brother is more usual Mancunian, and my sister speaks like the people at the top end of this road. I'm about five miles from Cheshire, and that's a foreign land!

    Never mind your 'North, South and Midlands'! They're almost like meta-ethnicities for many of us here! England is a world in itself.

    Now can anyone explain this Cohee and Tuckahoe division for me?

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    Senior Member Brynhild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneEnglishNorman View Post
    Would a "British" Australian in their 20s seriously treat somebody else with two Italian grandparents (f.e.), as not fully Australian? Seems hard to believe.
    In answer to that, no, they wouldn't. No matter what some people might think, there are some Southern European races who are compatible with those from the North.

    As for Australia being an ethnicity - apart from the Aborigines - no. What has happened, though, is that there are variations to accents, and the way words are inflected, depending on the demographics.
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    Moderation note: I split the thread from this thread:

    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=111207

    - Siebenbürgerin


    And, no, American isn't an ethnicity. Anything in the New World (America, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Panama, etc.) would be a nationality.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Soten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telluride View Post
    And, no, American isn't an ethnicity. Anything in the New World (America, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Panama, etc.) would be a nationality.
    I've never known anyone to say that "Mexican" could not be an ethnicity.


    Are the Quebecois French or are they Quebecois? Are they both? If so, is Quebecois only a "nationality" so to speak? Can a Pakistani be Quebecois if he lives in Quebec?

    The Québécois self-identify as an ethnic group in both the English and French versions of the Canadian census and in demographic studies of ethnicity in Canada. In the 2001 Census of Canada, 98,670 Canadians, or just over 1% of the population of Quebec identified "Québécois" as their ethnicity, ranking "Québécois" as the 37th most common response.[18] These results were based on a question on residents in each household in Canada: "To which ethnic or cultural group(s) did this person's ancestors belong?", along with a list of sample choices[19] ("Québécois" did not appear among the various sample choices).[20]. The most common ethnicity ,"Canadien" or Canadian, did appear as an example on the questionnaire, and was selected by 4.9 million people or 68.2% of the Quebec population. [21]

    In the more detailed Ethnic Diversity Survey, Québécois was the most common ethnic identity in Quebec, reported by 37% of Quebec’s population aged 15 years and older, either as their only identity or alongside other identities[22] [23]. The survey, based on interviews, asked the following questions: "1) I would now like to ask you about your ethnic ancestry, heritage or background. What were the ethnic or cultural origins of your ancestors? 2) In addition to "Canadian", what were the other ethnic or cultural origins of your ancestors on first coming to North America?"[24] This survey did not list possible choices of ancestry and permitted multiple answers.[25] In census ethnic surveys, French-speaking Canadians identify their ethnicity most often as French, Canadien, Québécois, or French Canadian, with the latter three referred to by Jantzen (2005) as "French New World" ancestries because they originate in Canada.[26] Jantzen (2005) distinguishes the English Canadian, meaning "someone whose family has been in Canada for multiple generations", and the French Canadien, used to refer to descendants of the original settlers of New France in the 17th and 18th centuries.[27]

    Those reporting "French New World" ancestries overwhelmingly had ancestors that went back at least 4 generations in Canada: specifically, 90% of Québécois traced their ancestry back this far.[28] Fourth generation Canadiens and Québécois showed considerable attachment to their ethno-cultural group, with 70% and 61% respectively reporting a strong sense of belonging.[29]
    Funny how Canadien was an option for ancestry or ethnicity as well...

  8. #38
    Senior Member Soten's Avatar
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    Concerning the American as an ethnicity deal, I found this just earlier today on somebody's blog. I forget who's blog even, but it's not their work.

    It's couched in a lot of race talk, which I would tone down, but it gets the right point across. People here should find it interesting. This must have been written by Harry Laughlin in the 1920/30's or before.

    What is an American?
    Robert Reis gives his answer at MR. Reis is nosing in the right direction (on this particular question), but Harry Laughlin's answer remains the clearest and most comprehensive:
    Definition of the American race
    Suitable for Legal and Technical Use, -- and for General Understanding

    Racially, an American is a Caucasian each of whose ancestral lines traces directly to a member of the foundation racial stock of the American people, or to a race-assimilant thereto who was fully assimilated thereby.

    (a) The foundation racial stock of the American people consists in all Caucasians who were inhabitants of the territory of the original United States at the consummation of American independence, September 3, 1783.

    (b) A race-assimilant to the foundation racial stock of the American people is a person readily assimilable thereby on account of nearness in blood-kinship thereto; such a person is a Caucasian all of whose ancestral lines trace directly to one or more of those previously established European races which furnished the ethnic elements of the foundation racial stock of the American people.

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    Senior Member Haereticus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soten View Post
    I've never known anyone to say that "Mexican" could not be an ethnicity...
    How could it be? Mexico is a mix of various ethnic groups.

    According to the CIA
    Ethnic groups:
    mestizo (Amerindian-Spanish) 60%, Amerindian or predominantly Amerindian 30%, white 9%, other 1%
    I'd take issue with "mestizo (Amerindian-Spanish)" that's simply 'mixed race' in my book.

    I'd imagine the 9% described as 'white' would be predominately of Spanish descent.

    Interestingly the Brazilian population described as 'white' is 53.7%

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../print/br.html
    “It was intended that when Newspeak had been adopted once and for all and Oldspeak forgotten, a heretical thought should be literally unthinkable, at least so far as thought is dependent on words”

  10. #40
    Senior Member Soten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haereticus View Post
    How could it be? Mexico is a mix of various ethnic groups.

    According to the CIA

    I'd take issue with "mestizo (Amerindian-Spanish)" that's simply 'mixed race' in my book.

    I'd imagine the 9% described as 'white' would be predominately of Spanish descent.
    Mestizo means "mixed race", specifically European and Amerindian mix. I see no problem there.

    Mexicans have certainly taken on the qualifications of a distinct ethnicity in my book. No wonder people have a hard time swallowing American, Canadian, or Quebecois as ethnicities. I'm coming to the conclusion that a lot of Europeans just don't get it. Maybe they don't think that ethnicities that existed before can ever take on a new identity.

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