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Thread: Are American/Canadian/Australian, Etc. Ethnicities?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawspeaker
    Before that there were just two groups: the descendants of the British crims
    I'm constantly surprised at how often I read this from continental Europeans... although I shouldn't be, considering I know that learning about Australian history wouldn't be high on the agenda for their country's education systems. However, it is directly tied in with British, Irish and other British postcolonies' histories... including that of the USA. (When the British Empire lost their North American colonies they had to find an alternative land to send their convicts to in order to relieve their over-crowded prisons - prisons that had become over-crowded due to dramatically increased and widespread poverty in the British Isles.)

    Nevertheless, British free settlers (non-crims ) began migrating to Australia from about 1815... not that long really after the first fleet carrying convicts arrived on Australian shores (1788). (Even then, numbers of live convicts who arrived in Australia to settle the colonies was quite low. Mortality rates on the seas were extremely high. And many of the Irish convicts were political prisoners.)

    From about 1815 the colony, under the governorship of Lachlan Macquarie, began to grow rapidly as free settlers arrived and new lands were opened up for farming. Despite the long and arduous sea voyage, settlers were attracted by the prospect of making a new life on virtually free Crown land. From the late 1820s settlement was only authorised in the limits of location, known as the Nineteen Counties.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...lia_(1788-1850)

    Anyway, I don't normally say anything when people who don't know any better (aren't educated on the matter) crap on about a false Australian history... but I'm feeling a bit anal tonight... so I thought I'd share.

    :p

  2. #12
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    Dear Bridie,

    No offense taken. I am of English and indigenous European heritage. There might be some aboriginal Australian influence, but that's probably just wishful thinking.

    Second generation immigrants from the British Isles are always considered to be Australian. Those from other countries are generally not. Today, there are 3rd and even 4th generation immigrants from countries like Italy or Macedonia, and they are always considered to be Italian or Macedonian. They consider themselves this, and Australians consider them to be this. It is not politically correct, but this is the truth. Confusion arises when you have kids who are Italian/Australian, or Macedonian/Australian mixed though.
    Ridiculous. Our approach to constructing British identity has more to do with status than anything else. Groups such as the Welsh, who maintained a social identity, are still ostracised today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneEnglishNorman View Post
    Would a "British" Australian in their 20s seriously treat somebody else with two Italian grandparents (f.e.), as not fully Australian? Seems hard to believe.
    You mean if they're only half Italian, (and half Australian)? Would depend on a lot of things... whether or not the person identifies themselves as Italian (are they a part of the Italian community?) - and most will, whether or not they bear an Italian surname, whether or not they speak in an extroverted Italian manner with a distinctive Italian way of speaking (even third generation Italians speak in a way that is quite different from normal Australians - not so different that it could be considered an accent, but enough to differentiate them), whether or not behave like an Italian and identify culturally with Italy, whether or not they look Italian.

    Like I said, it's difficult for mixed ethnicity kids... are they part of the community of their mother or their father? I guess it depends on which group accepts them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talan
    Ridiculous. Our approach to constructing British identity has more to do with status than anything else. Groups such as the Welsh, who maintained a social identity, are still ostracised today.
    Sure, there is an underlying hierarchy within Australian society that is based on ethnicity as much as it is on class and wealth... but I think that saying that the Welsh are "ostracised" is a bit of an exaggeration. They are just not held in the same regard that the English are, to a minor degree. A very minor degree.

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    Why are the Welsh ostracised in Australia? Doesn't make sense.

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    They're not ostracised. Talan was greatly exaggerating. It was an understatement when I said that it was "a bit of an exaggeration". :p

    There is a social hierarchy in Australia, in part based on ethniticy. The English are at the top of the totem pole. Where's the surprise?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie View Post
    The English are at the top of the totem pole. Where's the surprise?
    Then Australia is on a sound footing, well done.

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    Senior Member theTasmanian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie View Post
    Anyway, to answer the original question, I can't speak for other countries, but I don't believe that "Australian" itself is an ethnicity. I believe Australia to be an English land that was conquered and then built from the ground up to become what it is today by leaders/members of the British Empire. It was only after we "won" eyes: WW2 that immigrants (in significant numbers) from lands other than Ireland and Britain were permitted to work and live in Australia.

    .

    not to burst any bubbles BUT what about the chine that live up in Broom before WW1 or the Afghans that helped the expansion of the "outback" lots of Germanic types came over way before WW1 for mining etc

    the stereo type of Anglo-Saxon and Celtic started Australia didn't last for more than the first ten years

    Australia has always been a land of opportunity.... turn up and make it happen! and if it did happen they the person or people who made good on what ever they did stayed

    Australia IS made up of lots of ethic groups...so there for it cannot have a ethnic type of its own

    i had this argument on a "other" euro forum where it was common to say" they look American" what's an American look like? i would say back "they look like this X!" but that's a Anglo-Saxon or Germanic etc etc

    the only ones in Australia or America who can say(to a point) that they are the ethnic ones are the aborigines and Indians
    Tasmanian twice the heads!!.......twice the intelligence!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tas
    not to burst any bubbles BUT what about the chinese that live up in Broome before WW1 or the Afghans that helped the expansion of the "outback" lots of Germanic types came over way before WW1 for mining etc
    Well, that's why I specifically said...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie
    It was only after we "won" WW2 that immigrants (in significant numbers) from lands other than Ireland and Britain were permitted to work and live in Australia.
    By stating significant numbers, I refer to a number large and loud enough to have a significant impact on Australian culture and society (and I don't think a couple of Chinese influenced houses and a Chinese restaurant in one, remote outback town (Broome) really constitutes a significant influence on the whole of Australia .

    As for other Germanics (I'm assuming you're talking about the Dutch and Germans), they were largely assimilated without any fuss into Australian society. There were a few German settlements of course, where they continued to speak German and stayed true to German cultural values and practices, but this didn't have too much of an impact on the rest of Australia since they were somewhat isolated from the rest of Australian society. German influence (everywhere except South Australia) didn't really extend beyond individual Germans being great workers, explorers, contributing to the Australian economy and giving many places in Australia German names. Their impact on Australian culture was very limited and didn't negate the dominance of British culture at all. Australia remained a British (or English) land still.

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    Senior Member Resurgam's Avatar
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    I have the opinion that there is no single overarching American ethnicity. They would have to be broken down into:

    -Yankee
    -Over arching ethnicity of Southerner for what was once divided between the Cohee and Tuckahoe.
    -Pennsylvania Dutch

    -Then there's the unwashed mass of rootless cosmopolitans

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resurgam View Post
    I have the opinion that there is no single overarching American ethnicity. They would have to be broken down into:

    -Yankee
    -Over arching ethnicity of Southerner for what was once divided between the Cohee and Tuckahoe.
    -Pennsylvania Dutch

    -Then there's the unwashed mass of rootless cosmopolitans
    What about every other American not on the East Coast?

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