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Thread: The Discussion about OEN and Ricky Roma's Researches

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    The Discussion about OEN and Ricky Roma's Researches

    Quote Originally Posted by OEN
    You take them over me for classifying a Brit?
    What has your nationality got to do with it? Do you think that you have "dibs" on classifying those from the British Isles because you yourself hail from there? It's a genuine question.... can you explain your reasoning please?
    The reason I (and many others) think that Agrippa is such a good classifier is because I (and many others) read the extensive threads and posts that he wrote mostly on Skadi (now all lost) that indicated without any doubt that he has done A LOT of research and study on the matter, often going into far greater detail than any of the rest of us would care to (way over my head). He would oftentimes not only take into consideration the "biological or evolutionary science" point of view, but incorporate relevant aspects of history, politics and sociology too. He has a great enthusiasm for the subject, backed up by years of study, presents his ideas and thoughts in a convincing manner (without demanding that everyone agree with him) and has obviously given it all a lot of energy and consideration. Also, he is evidently of quite high intelligence and seems to be quite capable of remaining calm and rational in a debate (it helps). He has PROVEN, I think, that he knows what he's talking about. Even if you don't agree with everything he says, you've got to give the guy credit. It's not as though he just came along one day, said a few words and now everyone thinks that he's a master classifier.... he earned a lot of people's respect over the course of years.

    As for Kadu and Lissu, I just personally feel that they are often spot on when it comes to classifying. I think Lissu, in particular, is quite observant, and notices some things that others miss.

    Phew!! I've finished now. I'll step down off my soap box and go make a nice cuppa tea.

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    Typed this for the "other thread" but will post here.




    The background to this thread is hilarious. Ah well. May as well respond, since myself and "associate" are named in the poll at the top of the page.

    IMHO Ricky Roma is easily the best. I realise he is not the most popular person here or on other forums, but that does not diminish from his classifications. You don't have to like the guy, but he is the best.

    ---

    Especially for Brits, I find Agrippa's classifications to be wide of the mark. Anyone can view the North-Atlantids thread here, there are varying opinions on that. Classifying Pierce Brosnan & Hugh Grant as North-Atlantid just does not stack up. Jeremy Clarkson as Nordic fails.



    ---

    Then Lena Headey as "Nordid/Atlantid or quasi Atlanto-Nordid/Nordatlantid to use some creative terms with Cromagnoid influences."



    That's getting on for 6 terms. It's "scattergun classifying" when she's simply Bruenn. It's worth mentioning that Exeter aka Glenlivet from Skadi also classified her as Bruenn.

    ---

    Also discussion of Agrippa's Nordic examples at Stirpes:

    Even just talking of German Nordics, Maria Furtwaengler is closer to an unmixed example than Sonya Kraus.



    It is problematic to list Sonya Kraus here as Skandonordid, as your sole female example.

    Again for another alledged Skandonordid, the Finn Joni Markkula, he seems to show foreign admixture at his zygomatics. He may be more Nordic than Kraus - which is not hard - but he still cannot be a good example. His lower face is also suspect of UP.



    Also Godunov as Eastern Nordic I tend to dispute. He is surely UP mixed, and not to a small degree. His facial features are really quite broad indeed.



    I can see how such classifications would arrive at a "Nordics are numerous" viewpoint.
    ---

    Anyway, others criticise myself and Amorsite for classifying too many as Bruenn, but that's OK. Nothing compared to what will come after the next thread I've got nothing against Agrippa, a lot of his writings I can read and take on board, for example on progressiveness and body types and so on. And the fact he posts and moderates on politically-informed forums like this deserves respect.

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    One thing I find weird about your classifications (other than that half of the word is supposedly Brunn) is that you classify many American folks as Amerind influenced and that you claim that half of the Germanic countries from Europe are "Mongoliform", but that Southern European regions with obvious African/Moorish/Jewish influence are free of influence.

    Genetics show that some Southerners have common genetics with the Jews.



    And there's 13% of non-European mtDNA markers in Italians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    One thing I find weird about your classifications (other than that half of the word is supposedly Brunn) is that you classify many American folks as Amerind influenced
    Probably some are.

    and that you claim that half of the Germanic countries from Europe are "Mongoliform",
    Influenced.

    but that Southern European regions with obvious African/Moorish/Jewish influence are free of influence.
    I have no recollection of that.

    Genetics show that some Southerners have common genetics with the Jews.



    And there's 13% of non-European mtDNA markers in Italians.
    That may well be the case, I'll take your word for it.

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    Sorry, but if I may ask Fallen Angel for the accompanying study that goes with this graphic? I'd be interested in reading it.
    People turn to poison as quick as lager turns to piss

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    Maybe this thread should be merged with the "Best Classifier on the Althing?" thread. Just a thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneEnglishNorman View Post

    Also discussion of Agrippa's Nordic examples at Stirpes:
    That bloke's "suspicious" zygomatics are, in fact, one of the criteria for classifying as nordic;

    "The malars are small and typically flattened in front, and the zygomatic arches bend outward to some extent."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Angel View Post
    One thing I find weird about your classifications (other than that half of the word is supposedly Brunn) is that you classify many American folks as Amerind influenced and that you claim that half of the Germanic countries from Europe are "Mongoliform", but that Southern European regions with obvious African/Moorish/Jewish influence are free of influence.

    Genetics show that some Southerners have common genetics with the Jews.



    And there's 13% of non-European mtDNA markers in Italians.
    I think that if one is to find a foreign influence in some Italians - especially from a certain area of the present country (notice how there are two different clusters among Italians, by the way) - one has not to look for genetic tests, as a glance to their phenotypes should be helpful. Anyway, even Amorsite agrees with this, when he says:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky Roma View Post
    Southern Italy is home to more exotic types, like Irano afghans and so forth. Al Pacino (mostly Sicilian with some Napolitan) is Small Med + Irano-Afghan for example.
    When he and OEN suggest that Western Europe is more Caucasoid than Eastern Europe, I think they keep into account the fact that those "exotic" types which could have influenced the most southern tips of Europe, unsavory as they may be, are nonetheless considered "Caucasoid" (if not for any Negroid admixture, hardly noticeable overall in modern Europe) - while they ascribe those features they found in Eastern Europe to a Mongoloid strain, which is not Caucasoid by definition. We may not agree with this explanation, we could rather speak of native Cromagnid (or UP, as they say) adaptations, but I think this is the logic backing their reasoning.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    I think that everyone is entitled to a typological anthro. opinion, whatever that is and whatever it is worth. And, if that is your opinion, it is just as good as anybody else's since typological anthro. is hardly a science. Genetic markers are certainly not better but they are leading to something better when we can compare large numbers of genes and possible linkages.

    Over the years at Skadi, many people came and left. Some thought they had it all down and knew everything. But the only three people I ever learned anything from were Agrippa and Polak and Atlanto-med. Unfortunately, this forum is not Polak's cup of tea. He was wonderful in both Physical Anthro. and Genetics. Agrippa is very interested in typological anthropology and has studied its history, its major practitioners, has kept current in the field. He has done quite a bit of work and I don't mean visiting websites. What I mean is real academic work. Atlanto-med was just simply the best person I ever met in Anthropology, overall, considering all aspects of the study. She knew linguistics, ethnology, archaeology, cultural-social anthropology and best she knew Physical Anthropology, not just typology. Overall, she was better than any college professor I ever met in the subject, better than Bernard Campbell, M. Gimbutas, James Sackett, Joseph Birdsell, better than Rainer Proach. And yet she had no academic degree. Very, very, very sadly, she turned off her computer one day.

    So of these three internet Greats in Anthro., we have only one left, Agrippa. People should understand that they cannot become another Agrippa by practicing typing on an internet forum. Nor by reading half-backed SPNA sites. Can you come here and learn English or German or Swedish just by visiting those language sub-forums? It is the same with anthropology.

    But, as I said at the top, each of us is entitled to our opinion and we are each entitled to defend our opinion or argue so long as it is polite and within our rules.

    So what is the problem?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSW
    So what is the problem?
    For some reason OEN took offense to me saying to another member that they should ask Agrippa directly (and maybe Kadu and Lissu too) if they want a really good classification. Maybe it was, in part, because I mocked the former for seeing "Bruenn's everywhere". :p

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