View Poll Results: Which do you think was the lesser evil out of two evils?

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  • GDR

    18 38.30%
  • FRG

    8 17.02%
  • I am not German, but nevertheless am curious to see how Germans voted on this!

    21 44.68%
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Thread: East Versus West - A Comparison of Germany Before and After Reunification

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodskarl Dubhgall View Post
    I understand your point about Israel and the Jew lobby, but what is the rant about Americans, who did what bad thing to Bavarians during the occupation?
    Are you kidding me? American troops raped and molested German women and children. Many of the American rapes were gang rapes committed by armed soldiers at gunpoint. Despite the fact that fraternization wasn't supposed to occur, the phrase "copulation without conversation is not fraternization" was used as a motto by US army troops. Also, Anglo-Americans are directly responsible for the mass deportations and expelling of Germans from Central and Eastern Europe, by signing the Potsdam Agreement with Stalin.

    Not to mention that they imported their Americanism and McDonalds culture, a very degenerate, decadent culture which is very foreign to the German spirit, but which the new generations had forced down their throats as a result of the guilt and shame politics that was parroted into their brains on a regular basis.

    Can you also say what did Britain do that was bad to Hanover, other than the humiliating circumstances of losing and not exercising full sovereignty? Isn't that pretty much what Berlin and Moscow did to Warsaw, btw?
    Britain is responsible for one of the worst war crimes against the Germans, the bombing of civilians in Dresden. They were as hateful towards Germans as the Soviets (and I say Germans, not just "Nazis", Churchill made that pretty clear). Some other examples of British crimes in occupied Germany: British soldiers randomly selected and burned two cottages in Seedorf, Lower Saxony, in reprisal against local civilians who had hidden German soldiers in their cellars. The Bad Nenndorf interrogation centre in occupied Germany, which was the subject of an official inquiry in 1947 practiced mental and physical torture and stole personal property on a regular basis. British troops in Schleswig-Holstein plundered Glücksburg castle, stealing jewellery, and desecrating coffins from the castle's mausoleum. Rapes and sexual harassment of German women by British troops also took place and like the Soviets, they didn't spare the old ladies either. Some of the rapes that took place in Hannover/Lower Saxony were premeditated and ended in death. The British army also harbored pedophiles who preyed on German children, as well as children across Belgium and the Netherlands, where they had been billeted with local families. While Allied servicemen were supposed to obey local laws while in Germany, soldiers could not be prosecuted by German courts for crimes committed against German citizens except as authorised by the occupation authorities.

    Maybe if Germany had 100% control, Schroeder might have pursued a more militant stance regarding terrorism--and at least for Germany's sake. Just wonder if maybe the mass sexual assaults by Rapefugees wouldn't have happened. It seems like negligence on the part of Merkel and that's bad, seeing how she's a woman
    There's no need for Germany to get involved in Middle Eastern affairs in the first place. If America hadn't poked their noses into Middle Eastern affairs to be a lapdog to Israel, maybe Europe and Germany wouldn't be as flooded by these rapefugees, you'd think. I don't care what Muslims do in their countries, how they run their people and governments. It's not a German matter.

    What did the French do to the southwest?
    The French are the Germans' centuries old sworn enemies. They occupied German land and destroyed German identity and culture. France also took no responsibility to accommodate and nourish destitute German expellees in its zone. But instead adopted policies to frenchify its ethnic Germans.

    I grew up in East Germany/the DDR until my teenage years and while the situation was far from perfect, it doesn't even begin to compare with what it became after West Germany took over. Before, I had only seen negroes, muslims and other foreigners on TV. Today, they are everywhere. And was it worth it? Personally, I prefer to deal with financial struggles than to see my people and culture being genocided for the sake of consumerism and Mcdonalds diversity.

    Has socialism or even communism seemed to be normalised since the inclusion of the East and dissolution of the Soviet threat?
    Soviet style communism has very little support, it's a political fringe movement. The far-left Communist Party never gained any seats in the Bundestag or European Parliament and their highest ever result was 0.4%. So it's by far as much of a threat as liberal-capitalist "democracy" delusions. And isn't it funny how the communist DDR was far less culturally marxist and multiracial than your "freedom loving" liberal-capitalist "democracies".

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  3. #142
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    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_nostalgia

    Similar to the topic, but I'm not addressing ideology.

    Ostalgie is about nostalgia for life in the DDR. My attempt was to see what some could tell was better about life there vs in the (pre-?) BRD zones. I.E. I want to know if there was mismanagement of the pre-EU, pre-1989 Germany from the pre-Bonn (?) government(s) and which zones were worst (France, Britain, America) and why during those times.

    Despite Soviet rule and perhaps to be cheeky, I've seen Ostalgie and it does seem tragicomic, considering the lasting partition and occupations by Poland and Russia into the present--France too, right? I agree that Poland should have kept its old Eastern borders, despite Russia wanting to push them onto German soil so they'd have more land at the expence of Germany. Germanic peoples should own between the Rhine and Vistula, Alps and Danube, although not necessarily under one government, IMHO. What about a more objective, dispassionate view, which breaks down the different culpabilities of the Western occupiers vs the East?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_chic
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_chic

    Most times, complaints about capitalism and praise for communism by Bärin seem näive, bandwagon rhetoric based on Soviet propaganda during those times (or maybe attachments to family from back then?), despite the poverty and human rights violations under East Berlin--as you yourself said, from Millennials.

    I was hoping for some facts about actual historical wrongdoings by WESTERN Allies, real or imagined, after the conclusion of WWII and not about the USSR and/or Poland, which was obvious and done to death. It's just that the only complaints I've seen relate to propaganda about the Third Reich (neither here nor there, imho) and the mere fact of occupation (entirely understandable) by Western governments as well as the East. The drive for moral equivocation about circumstances between East and West by nationalists is obviously due to not wanting to choose either, (also understandable,) but I was looking for specific events and crimes committed, if can be provided. I've seen so much complaining about the rock and a hard place, that the BRD was just as bad, but evidence is never supplied. So, anybody feel free to explain.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_C..._Better_Sex%3F

    This is the only thing I've heard was better about Eastern Bloc life, true or false? LOL

    As an aside, I extended the purpose of the thread to know whether some thought the East vs West split was more or less unnatural than the North vs South split and which half or corner some felt epitomised their ideal sense of German identity vs which would be least. I've seen the surreal statement that it's post-Communist East Germany that is best, even though it's still occupied. Usual mental gymnastics pretend that EU membership and domination by (West) Germany is equal to that, except I'd like to see evidence that is the case, which may require breaking down the relationship with France.

    As mentioned elsewhere, Schroeder and Chirac were united against Blair and Bush, while the fact of Brexit and Trump solidarity speaks against those two post-War Allies having much to do with current German problems. Isn't it anti-Germanic to simply side with France while also providing apologetic for the continued ignominy of East Germany despite partial reunification, without being honest about that? Didn't London and Washington stabilise Germany by preventing France and the Communists from fully annexing the country? Simply occupying Germany to begin with is anti-Germanic betrayal, despite German occupations of Scandinavia and Benelux hypocrisy? That's not a weighty argument and Paris too often gets off scot-free, but perhaps someone can elaborate more on French entanglement in BRD destiny then and now, as Germany was used as a set of buffer states between them and the Warsaw Pact, similar to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact preceding the circumstances of this topic.

    I suppose the most natural answer about which parts of the country one favours most would be according to one's birth, but that didn't stop Austria or Prussia from deciding imperial destinies regardless. There are also Californians who wish they weren't, believe it or not. It's a similar type of issue. Sometimes, I'm proud of my home state and other times, I'm ashamed. It's not necessarily due to the criticisms of others, but wishing things were better in different ways. Half the time, I don't know who to blame--my folk or foreigners, for allowing it to happen or in running it down. Honesty would mean both. I'm sure there are at least some Germans feeling the same.

  4. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    I don't think in the idealist situation a wall should be back to divide Germans. But we can't ignore the differences between us in politics and mindset. I can't embrace the multiculturalism and openmindedness of West Berliners and West Germans in general, and especially the greedy capitalism which benefits selfish businessmen by bringing millions of "guestworkers" in our country. You see, in the DDR, guest workers existed too. They came here from the Third World to train, to benefit from our superior knowledge and bring it to their countries. But, they left when the term was over. And no Vietnamese woman could get pregnant and have her baby here to become a citizen! In the West, the "guests" turned permanent, and the politicians started to push tolerance and giving them citizenship.
    And don't think because I'm socialist I support a welfare system. On the contrary, I support putting everyone to work instead of being lazy and keeping welfare only for war veterans and people who truly deserve it. In the DDR, everyone had the right to work, and everyone had to work.
    I'd like a united Germany, with our former provinces also, but when the shit hits the fan the question is, how much longer should nationalist East Germans accept that the BRD drags us down with it?!
    I've always been curious as to why you speak of yourself as a "national communist." I've always thought of communism as a particularly Jewish invention, and associated it with the sort of Marxist-Leninist policies wherein the Jews in control "kill the best goyim," as they did during the Red Terror and the Holodomor. I also associate it with the "Cultural Revolution" in China where Mao killed tens of millions who stood in the way of his wiping out of traditional Chinese culture. This "cultural revolution" is something we seem to be experiencing now in the west with antifa mobs tearing down statues and defacing anything depicting European peoples and culture. We are also experiencing the sort of enforced lies that Orwell describes in 1984. If there is anything I truly hate, it is the sort of mealy-mouthed twisting of reality that these Jews and their lackeys engage in. This is the experience I have of communism... that it is a massive lie told by Jews to subjugate our people.

    Socialism, on the other hand, has a broader meaning. Even a family can be seen as a socialist construct. The NSDAP was socialist in a sense, though much of that changed as years went by. I think what made the DDR a special case like these is that it was a homogeneous nation. This was why it worked, not because of communist or socialist economic policies per se, and it was not infested with Jews like Sefton Delmer, beating down your spirits and replacing the emptiness with consumerism, as was the case in the west. I read an article written in the 80s, when the DDR was still in existence. The author interviewed an East German, who said "of course we've got it better than the Bulgarians. We're Germans." That says a lot. Only a German who's kept his soul would say that. For all the oppression of the Stasi, they apparently did not make you hate yourselves for being German.
    [02-10, 17:07] Chlodovech: cats may have a reason for meowing too

    [02-10, 17:08] renownedwolf: same reason as the missus then.. give me stuff/affection..though she doesnt need me to let her out in the garden for a poo..

    [02-10, 17:09] Chlodovech: that's more than I can say of Thoreidar

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  6. #144
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    Nachtengel,

    Thank you for partly answering my questions.

    While Allied servicemen were supposed to obey local laws while in Germany, soldiers could not be prosecuted by German courts for crimes committed against German citizens except as authorised by the occupation authorities.
    Interesting loophole, but what was done criminally by the occupation leadership in their "official capacities" before the Bonn government acted in its own name and not illegally done by rogue individuals? Still not satisfied with exposition on the French blindspot with regard to the BRD and EU in terms of German sovereignty.

    Perhaps it is comparable to continued Eastern occupation, but then, beyond Potsdam at the termination of hostilities, what have Anglo-Americans done since that perpetuates German misery? I've mentioned military base real estate, a Cold War strategic relic, of course, but then again, anti-Communism and opposing the USSR was what the US did, yet obviously a thankless job that the Party failed to do before 1945.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_cringe

    Marxism-Leninism or Stalinism vs cultural Marxism...are you really going to choose between them? What does the Frankfurt school have to do with Allied leadership, rather than the shame culture exported from Germany (like the Rothschild Yiddish Ashkenazim it is closely associated with) everywhere else? Comparable to extreme Janteloven, no?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Game

    Anglo-American involvement in the Middle East goes back to the Great Game, with the Suez Canal and the post-Ottoman Caliphate (yes, war on Islam! Such a bad thing to almost get Constantinople back? I'm no Crusader myself.) protectorates being League of Nations mandates. Have you, perchance, heard of the Crimean War or Lawrence of Arabia?

    Once Britain gave up East of Suez (albeit Eden's ministry) and France lost Indochina, America stepped in like a bottom feeder (sad to say), but really just trying to prove something about the ability of a former colony to fix or salvage post-colonial situations (no, it didn't go well), even siding with Apartheid South Africa. That's not a directive from Israel, only Anglo-American interests happen to sometimes not be opposed, at least with regard to OPEC and some Jesus Freaks.

    https://theintercept.com/2020/05/22/...spired-hitler/

    BTW: What's so bad about McDonald's, if it's just once in a while? Fast food is based off the Henry Ford assembly line model of productivity, that's all and my family drives Fords across the generations. One can argue both for and against it for different reasons, but the only complaint I see relevant is its ubiquity, like whining about supply and demand as the reason there's a Walmart in every town across America, figuratively speaking.

    If it were a German business, would we be having this conversation? My local tearoom is owned by a German expat family and nobody I've heard of has denounced them for any reason--quite the opposite. Most Americans praise most German exports, although hardly with any reverence to the DDR in that regard. Isn't that understandable?

  7. #145
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    Communism and socialism, including national socialism are made of the same substance. Same sh*t, different name. They are all leftist, totalitarian ideologies that infringe on Germanic basic rights and freedom of speech. They both enslave Germanics, whether it's the Stasi or the Gestapo. You may say you have never met a pro-Germanic communist, I say the same about national socialists. They are as un- and anti-Germanic as their communist comrades.


    Die Sonne scheint noch.

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  9. #146
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    I don’t know how anyone can seriously make the case for the BDR over the DDR. The former is almost certainly going to preside over the final end of Germany, if nothing changes. Unilaterally, the major ethnicities of former Eastern Bloc countries are in a superior position to those in the Capitalist West.
    If only you knew how bad things really are

  10. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huginn ok Muninn View Post
    I've always been curious as to why you speak of yourself as a "national communist." I've always thought of communism as a particularly Jewish invention, and associated it with the sort of Marxist-Leninist policies wherein the Jews in control "kill the best goyim," as they did during the Red Terror and the Holodomor. I also associate it with the "Cultural Revolution" in China where Mao killed tens of millions who stood in the way of his wiping out of traditional Chinese culture. This "cultural revolution" is something we seem to be experiencing now in the west with antifa mobs tearing down statues and defacing anything depicting European peoples and culture. We are also experiencing the sort of enforced lies that Orwell describes in 1984. If there is anything I truly hate, it is the sort of mealy-mouthed twisting of reality that these Jews and their lackeys engage in. This is the experience I have of communism... that it is a massive lie told by Jews to subjugate our people.

    Socialism, on the other hand, has a broader meaning. Even a family can be seen as a socialist construct. The NSDAP was socialist in a sense, though much of that changed as years went by. I think what made the DDR a special case like these is that it was a homogeneous nation. This was why it worked, not because of communist or socialist economic policies per se, and it was not infested with Jews like Sefton Delmer, beating down your spirits and replacing the emptiness with consumerism, as was the case in the west. I read an article written in the 80s, when the DDR was still in existence. The author interviewed an East German, who said "of course we've got it better than the Bulgarians. We're Germans." That says a lot. Only a German who's kept his soul would say that. For all the oppression of the Stasi, they apparently did not make you hate yourselves for being German.
    Americans often have a hard time differentiating between communism/socialism as economic models/philosophies and Jewish communism/cultural marxism. Economically speaking, communism is a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs. Communism as such can be practiced by anyone, from small communes to nation-states or multinational blocs. The economic model of communism wasn't really invented by Marx, Marx expanded on ideas that were there already. The idea of a classless, egalitarian society was present as old as Ancient Greece. In the medieval Christian Church, some monastic communities and religious orders shared their land and their other property. Communist thought has also been traced back to the works of the 16th-century English writer Thomas More.

    Ideologically speaking, communism as Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels envisioned it was meant to be internationalist as proletarian internationalism was expected to place class conflict well ahead of nationalism as a priority for the working class. However, this doesn't have to be the rule. One can apply egalitarian notions in a homogeneous ethnic nation as well. In fact, equality probably makes more sense in that respect than in some multiracial utopia, where people have very little ties and commonalities with each other. The more similar people are, the more they can expect to be viewed as members of the same class and collective, also the more they can expect to be regarded as equals. Because in the end, what does the working class in Vietnam or Venezuela have to do with the one in Germany? Very little. They have different experiences, different abilities and different needs. Also it's much easier to regard a nation as a collective than some imaginary international proletariat which is for the most part, a fantasy. A family, as you said, can be seen as a socialist construct.

    Personally, I think neither pure communism not pure capitalism are ideal. Both have been used and abused by Jews. Back in the day, they subverted socialism by creating the idea of an internationalist proletariat, these days they've turned people into wage slaves by subverting capitalism through corporatism and the banking/loaning business, creating enormous debts people will never get out of, not to mention getting politicians to sell out and privatize their countries for the sake of "free trade". The state needs to own a certain degree of its property, it cannot become indebted to foreign forces. It shouldn't sell its resources to the highest bidder, as if they were prostitutes. But of course citizens should be entitled to have their own private property. In the end though, the question is about ethnic homogeneity. That in my mind trumps ideology and economic system. I'd much prefer to live in a communist, but ethnically homogeneous Germany than in a liberal-capitalist, but multiracial one.

    And btw, Marx despite his Jewishness actually recognized the existence of a Germanic kinship: "by quarrelling amongst themselves, instead of confederating, Germans and Scandinavians, both of them belonging to the same great race, only prepare the way for their hereditary enemy, the Slav."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huginn ok Muninn View Post
    I've always been curious as to why you speak of yourself as a "national communist." I've always thought of communism as a particularly Jewish invention, and associated it with the sort of Marxist-Leninist policies wherein the Jews in control "kill the best goyim," as they did during the Red Terror and the Holodomor. I also associate it with the "Cultural Revolution" in China where Mao killed tens of millions who stood in the way of his wiping out of traditional Chinese culture. This "cultural revolution" is something we seem to be experiencing now in the west with antifa mobs tearing down statues and defacing anything depicting European peoples and culture. We are also experiencing the sort of enforced lies that Orwell describes in 1984. If there is anything I truly hate, it is the sort of mealy-mouthed twisting of reality that these Jews and their lackeys engage in. This is the experience I have of communism... that it is a massive lie told by Jews to subjugate our people.

    Socialism, on the other hand, has a broader meaning. Even a family can be seen as a socialist construct. The NSDAP was socialist in a sense, though much of that changed as years went by. I think what made the DDR a special case like these is that it was a homogeneous nation. This was why it worked, not because of communist or socialist economic policies per se, and it was not infested with Jews like Sefton Delmer, beating down your spirits and replacing the emptiness with consumerism, as was the case in the west. I read an article written in the 80s, when the DDR was still in existence. The author interviewed an East German, who said "of course we've got it better than the Bulgarians. We're Germans." That says a lot. Only a German who's kept his soul would say that. For all the oppression of the Stasi, they apparently did not make you hate yourselves for being German.
    Early communism, the current from late 19th century through the 1920s was more internationalistic but in the Eastern Bloc and satellite states, communism was applied on a more nationalistic scale. This happened in Romania as well. The communism here was infused with ethnic pride, the ideology was a mixture of Marxist–Leninist principles and doctrines of far-right nationalism. National unity and independence were important tenets in many countries, the speeches, anthems, documents talked about the struggle and greatness of X peoples, etc. Foreign influence was rejected, especially Western capitalist influence. In Romania, it got pretty radical. People were not allowed to possess or exchange foreign currency, listen to foreign radio, wear foreign style clothing and hairstyles, etc. Some countries adopted a form of rural traditionalism, which they saw compatible with the proletariat and working class. The propaganda posters of the time showed strong, proud peasants and workers in uniform, peoples in tractors on the field. Actually the propaganda posters resemble the national socialistic ones a little bit.













    Traditional roles like that of motherhood were also introduced, abortion was banned and considered a treason against the nation. Women were expected to cover their hair and dress decently. As far as I've understood it was pretty similar in the DDR, which was also a satellite state of the USSR so it benefited from more autonomy and independence. So I can understand a little bit this Ostalgia, there is a similar phenomenon in Romania, where people are nostalgic over the former communistic era. Of course it's a romanticisation, as they say "the grass is always greener". But most peoples don't miss the cold, lack of water and electricity, standing in lines for hours and rationalisation of goods, it's something else they miss. They miss the security of having a job, even if the wages were less, they miss the lack of mass migration and cultural degeneration (phenomena like LGBTQ would have been unthinkable in that era and feminism had a different meaning). So I'm thinking the Ostalgics don't like the present situation in Germany and would prefer to turn back the clock if they could, even if it meant they'd have to give up some of the current luxuries. That shows that consumerism doesn't bring happiness and peoples are searching for something more, which can't be quantified in money.

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  14. #149
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    Don't know. The DDR and Eastern Bloc cohabitation with the Slavs under the Soviet umbrella sounds too much like Strasserism and National Bolshevism that is routinely condemned whenever it comes up. Seems like people are just big hypocrites and don't really know what they want, splitting hairs all the time.

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    In the US, we got some immigrants from the 1848er's, which was described as a failed socialist labor movement in Western part of Germany against industrialists. After the German riots and protests, many of these socialist Germans settled in the Midwestern parts of the US from TX up to Indiana and farmed. Most became peaceful farmers, and a few active ones did organize major labor Unions against the coal mining and logging industry enjoying free speech and assembly. But, they ended up lynched accordingly to history books. US law types also lynched Germans at times, not just Blacks.

    My relatives, at least through stories, got jailed multiple times in Prussia and left Germany being conservative Prussians. Prussians still identify strongly among the Eastern parts, and the failed political types ended up in the US being Right or Left. Some of my elder friends emigrated from Brandenburg and former Eastern Germany that had stronger ethnic identification with our families. We have differing stories being in diaspora. Outside Germany, "German Americans" are the largest German community today, at 48 million people. Less than 3% of US Germans have mixed in with other racial groups. You commonly see more Germans ethnically mixed with other Northern Europeans like Irish, Danish, or Dutch over the generations, until recently the younger y-z generation. For us, I'm thinking about "repatriating" my family for cultural and educational reasons back to Germany, Austria, or Luxembourg.

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