View Poll Results: What type of nationalism do you support?

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  • Ethnic nationalism

    72 26.18%
  • Civic nationalism

    18 6.55%
  • Expansionist nationalism

    12 4.36%
  • Romantic nationalism

    27 9.82%
  • Cultural nationalism

    12 4.36%
  • Liberal nationalism

    5 1.82%
  • Religious nationalism

    21 7.64%
  • Pan-/Meta-Ethnic nationalism

    36 13.09%
  • Diaspora nationalism

    18 6.55%
  • A combination of two or more of the above.

    28 10.18%
  • Other (please specify)

    19 6.91%
  • I am not a nationalist.

    7 2.55%
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Thread: Types of Nationalism: Which Do You Subscribe to?

  1. #1
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    Types of Nationalism: Which Do You Subscribe to?

    Which type of nationalism do you support (if you are a nationalist) and why? Below are some definitions from Wikipedia, feel free to add your own descriptions/corrections where you disagree or find inaccuracies.
    Are there any forms nationalism among those on the list (or other ideologies generally perceived as nationalist) that you find to be pseudo-nationalist and why?
    Which kind of nationalism do you find most suitable for Germanic nations to preserve their heritage?
    Lastly, do you believe that preservation of Germanic ethnicities and their heritage is possible without nationalism?

    Ethnic nationalism, or ethnonationalism, defines the nation in terms of ethnicity, which always includes some element of descent from previous generations - i.e. genophilia. It also includes ideas of a culture shared between members of the group and with their ancestors, and usually a shared language. Membership in the nation is hereditary. The state derives political legitimacy from its status as homeland of the ethnic group, and from its function to protect the national group and facilitate its cultural and social life, as a group. Ideas of ethnicity are very old, but modern ethnic nationalism was heavily influenced by Johann Gottfried von Herder, who promoted the concept of the Volk, and Johann Gottlieb Fichte. Ethnic nationalism is now the dominant form, and is often simply referred to as "nationalism".

    Civic nationalism (or civil nationalism) is the form of nationalism in which the state derives political legitimacy from the active participation of its citizenry, from the degree to which it represents the "will of the people". It is often seen as originating with Jean-Jacques Rousseau and especially the social contract theories which take their name from his 1762 book The Social Contract. Civic nationalism lies within the traditions of rationalism and liberalism, but as a form of nationalism it is contrasted with ethnic nationalism. Membership of the civic nation is considered voluntary. Civic-national ideals influenced the development of representative democracy in countries such as the United States and France.

    Expansionist Nationalism is a radical form of nationalism that incorporates autonomous, patriotic sentiments with a belief in expansionism.

    Romantic nationalism (also organic nationalism, identity nationalism) is the form of ethnic nationalism in which the state derives political legitimacy as a natural ("organic") consequence and expression of the nation, or race. It reflected the ideals of Romanticism and was opposed to Enlightenment rationalism. Romantic nationalism emphasized a historical ethnic culture which meets the Romantic Ideal; folklore developed as a Romantic nationalist concept. The Brothers Grimm were inspired by Herder's writings to create an idealized collection of tales which they labeled as ethnically German. Historian Jules Michelet exemplifies French romantic-nationalist history.

    Cultural nationalism defines the nation by shared culture. Membership in the nation is neither entirely voluntary (you cannot instantly acquire a culture), nor hereditary (children of members may be considered foreigners if they grew up in another culture). Chinese nationalism is one example of cultural nationalism, partly because of the many national minorities in China. Cultural nationalism has been described as a variety of nationalism that is neither purely civic nor purely ethnic. The nationalisms of Quebec and Flanders have been variously described as ethnic or as cultural.

    Liberal nationalism is a kind of nationalism defended recently by political philosophers who believe that there can be a non-xenophobic form of nationalism compatible with liberal values of freedom, tolerance, equality, and individual rights. Ernest Renan and John Stuart Mill are often thought to be early liberal nationalists. Liberal nationalists often defend the value of national identity by saying that individuals need a national identity in order to lead meaningful, autonomous lives and that liberal democratic polities need national identity in order to function properly

    Religious nationalism defines the nation in terms of shared religion, usually along with other factors such as culture, ethnicity, and language. If the state derives political legitimacy from adherence to religious doctrines, then it is more of a theocracy than a nation-state. Many ethnic and cultural nationalisms include religious aspects, but as a marker of group identity, rather than the intrinsic motivation for nationalist claims.

    Pan-nationalism is usually an ethnic and cultural nationalism, but the 'nation' is itself a cluster of related ethnic groups and cultures, such as Turkic peoples. Occasionally pan-nationalism is applied to mono-ethnic nationalism, when the national group is dispersed over a wide area and several states - as in Pan-Germanism.

    Diaspora nationalism (or, as Benedict Anderson terms it, "long-distance nationalism") generally refers to nationalist feeling among a diaspora such as the Irish in the United States, the Jewish in the United States identifying as Israelis, or the Lebanese in the Americas and Africa, and the Armenians in Europe and the United States. Anderson states that this sort of nationalism acts as a "phantom bedrock" for people who want to experience a national connection, but who do not actually want to leave their diaspora community. The essential difference between pan-nationalism and diaspora nationalism is that members of a diaspora, by definition, are no longer resident in their national or ethnic homeland.
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  2. #2
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    I do not label myself politically but I would think romantic nationalism makes most sense.

    I am not sure if the preservation of Germanic ethnicities can be done without nationalism. Even the stateless nations are seeking preservation.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Angelcynn Beorn's Avatar
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    Ethnic nationalism is the only type of nationalism that actually fits the labvel 'nationalism'. Contrived creations such as civic nationalism are just yet another in the long line of attempts liberals have made to redefine our language and appropriate words for a completely different meaning. It generally sits side by side with the liberals attempt to redefine patriotism and nationalism as 2 distinct sentiments with different connotations - with one being more acceptable than the other - when in reality it's just a common English trait of having 2 or more different words meaning essentially the same thing.
    I am Ripper... Tearer... Slasher... Gouger.
    I am the Teeth in the Darkness, the Talons in the Night.
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    I AM BEOWULF!

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    Senior Member Loddfafner's Avatar
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    I checked romantic nationalism but really, they are mostly overlapping categories and variants on romantic nationalism. Civic nationalism is fine for mobilizing very large-scale units such as the US federal government and the EU involving maintaining functional organizations that serve an array of peoples, but not for the local level where most of the work for improving our living space has to be done.

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    Technonationalism.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Soten's Avatar
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    I checked ethnic nationalism. But I don't think I quite understand the notion of Romantic Nationalism, which seems fairly similar to ethno-nationalism. It seems obvious to me that in ethnic nationalism too the state should be an organic outcome of the will of the ethnic group. I will have to look into the differences.

  7. #7
    Senior Member DanseMacabre's Avatar
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    I consider myself a mixture of ethnic and romantic nationalism
    “Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people, a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs-Jon Jay, Federalist Papers

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    Eventhough I cannot be labeled as a real nationalist, I could be more considered a mixture of civil and liberal nationalism if it comes to the Netherlands and the EU. I am a proud EU-citizen, a European.

    If it comes to nationalism... I think that there are two groups in nationalism:

    1. those that just hate everybody in order to compensate their own short-comings.
    Many of these people become "NS" or WN

    2. the concerned citizens who after years of seeing their country being tormented decide to write about it, talk about it and act. They don't hate others as long as they are being respected in their country.. their own home.


    I consider myself a part of the second group. If a foreigner wants to live here and become full Dutch citizens and fully assimilate to become one of ours.. he or she should be welcome (in small numbers).... if he or she only trouble and mooch of our welfare state, we should give him/her/it a good slap with the banhammer by putting that parasite on the first aeroplane home.

    Problem is that the majority of our foreign populace deserves that slap of the banhammer.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Angelcynn Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lögsögumaður View Post
    1. those that just hate everybody in order to compensate their own short-comings.
    Many of these people become "NS" or WN
    That's straight out of 'liberal ad-hominems 101'. Just being a nationalist who doesn't want foreigners in your country doesn't make you some sort of intellectual weakling with a whole host of personality disorders. Although there are some that are like that, i think they make up only a tiny minority of real nationalists.

    2. the concerned citizens who after years of seeing their country being tormented decide to write about it, talk about it and act. They don't hate others as long as they are being respected in their country.. their own home.
    Define hate.

    I don't want a lot of foreigners in my country. It's my country, it's the only one i have and the only one my people have. If others want to follow their own culture and customs then they can do that in their own country and not mine. If they want to respect me and my culture then that's fine, they can do that from the comfort of their own country too.


    I really don't know if we are disagreeing all that much or just talking at cross-purposes here. But nationalism doesn't = hate as far as i'm concerned.
    I am Ripper... Tearer... Slasher... Gouger.
    I am the Teeth in the Darkness, the Talons in the Night.
    Mine is Strength... and Lust... and Power!
    I AM BEOWULF!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Aptrgangr's Avatar
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    What sense does it make to make a difference between several "nationalisms"? None. Nationalism always is ethnonationalism -folk, nation and her culture- all other variants enumerated simply do not qualify as nationalism but e.g. as constitutional patriotism.

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