View Poll Results: Should we immunise against diseases?

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    12 57.14%
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Thread: Immunisations

  1. #1
    Senior Member Brynhild's Avatar
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    Immunisations

    Should we, or shouldn't we immunise? If so, why? And if not, why not?
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Next World's Avatar
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    No. We shouldn't.

    I like Natural Selection.

    If you get sick, there are two options:
    Get better or die.



    It's "cruel" and it's sad when a family member or close friend can't fight off an illness, but that's how a species keeps a healthy gene pool.


    Plus, immunizations really don't make one entirely immune to things in most cases; people still contract fatal instances of the very things they sought to avoid, while the same amount or even fewer people in the same circumstances who haven't been given vaccinations for certain things have fewer ailments due to it.

    I'd rather my children learn to live in a healthy and responsible way. I'd rather than their immune systems build slowly, but surely.

    What's more, I'd rather that they aren't autistic.

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    Senior Member Loyalist's Avatar
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    Yes, I see no reason why we should permit recurrences of epidemics which are entirely preventable.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Mrs. Lyfing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Next World View Post
    Plus, immunizations really don't make one entirely immune to things in most cases; people still contract fatal instances of the very things they sought to avoid, while the same amount or even fewer people in the same circumstances who haven't been given vaccinations for certain things have fewer ailments due to it.
    When you have children your not going to give them any of the immunizations the doctor of Your Choice suggests?
    And, if you didn't, and your child became ill & died how would you feel?
    Beliefs as yours I am not putting down...I just hope you study study study many different options & reasoning for immunization or not to.

    What if your child developed Leukemia, would you want them to receive treatment or just let them die?
    And also, Autism caused from vaccines are controversial and the vaccine hypotheses lack convincing scientific evidence.
    Autism is highly heritable, although the genetics of autism are complex and it is generally unclear which genes are responsible. Children who develop Autism that was inherited happens much more than from a vaccine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Next World View Post
    I'd rather my children learn to live in a healthy and responsible way. I'd rather than their immune systems build slowly, but surely.
    Living healthy and responsible well you can't beat that but, I just think that is something you need to study more about & really consider before you make a decision you may regret.

    If babies didn't need it they wouldn't advise it. Ya bla bla bla it may cause this or that but walking down the street may cause you to get run over by a car.

    When it comes to health care, they offer plenty, it may cost a pretty penny but its there for a reason. Doesn't mean you should shove medicine down your throat but maybe sometimes there is an exception. My child would be the exception.

    Another thing to consider...study the chances of autism from vaccines compared to illnesses without the vaccines.

    Both my children were, I was, everyone I know was, and we are all just fine

    Do you take any medicine Next World?
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Next World's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Lyfing View Post
    When you have children your not going to give them any of the immunizations the doctor of Your Choice suggests?
    So far, the doctor of My choice has suggested no immunizations for me or for my children. I have discussed immunization with her and with many other doctors numerous times. I like my doctor and I like her methods. I plan to be with her or with a similar, Naturopathic doctor when I give birth to my children.

    It's almost strange how ardently against vaccination modern homeopathologists are, given that the basis of homeopathy is to build the immune system by exposing the organism to the disease. Obviously, the reason these doctors disapprove of vaccinations is because it's not simply the disease--if it were, I might be more inclined to accept it.

    "If your immune system is healthy, you'll become immune to most diseases quite easily. Your body won't ever accept the solvents and other third parties in the vaccines as friends, though."

    I'm in favor of the Natural Immunization process. I couldn't begin to tell you the number of things I am immune to, because I don't even know. There are people who are immune to AIDS who have never been exposed to HIV to the best of their knowledge, who have never had a vaccine for it. Everybody's body is full of diseases right now. Those of us who aren't sick at the moment are slowly becoming immune to all of the diseases floating in our bodies.

    I'm pretty sure I'm immune to several strands of strep throat at this point. I had it a lot when I was young. They wanted to take my tonsils out. I still have my tonsils and I haven't had strep since I was maybe 9 years old. I was never given a "vaccine" or some magic potion or cure. My body learned to reject strep throat, as it has learned to reject many other things and as it will continue to learn.



    And, if you didn't, and your child became ill & died how would you feel?
    I think I'd be entirely thrilled. I love when children die. Let's be serious--I'd feel just how I'd feel if they had died from something that they couldn't have received a vaccination from. I'd be upset, because they were my children and then they died. I'm sure I'd deal with it, though. People are getting weaker and weaker physically and emotionally with each generation. I really wonder how my fourth-great-grandmother felt laying eight of her children to death before her. For some reason, I don't think she'd be in favor of vaccination, either, though. Just the same as she wouldn't excuse one of her sons from doing the amount of work he needed to get done because he was weak, just the same as she wouldn't excuse herself from her work due to fatigue, just the same as she wouldn't excuse the fact that things need to keep moving.

    What if your child developed Leukemia, would you want them to receive treatment or just let them die?
    I would let him get better. People do get better without treatment. Do you think wild animals walk into the veterinary office? Or do they just stay healthy? Or if they get sick, do they all just fall over and die? Our bodies are very capable of caring for themselves. People have cured themselves of cancer without "treatment". If my child could not do that, then I suppose he would die, and I would have to accept that, however hurtful it would be.

    And also, Autism caused from vaccines are controversial and the vaccine hypotheses lack convincing scientific evidence.
    And which site did you just read that off of? Where do you get your information from? I have plenty of convincing scientific evidence for my purposes, and what's more, I see the stuff with my own eyes. Above that--Autism is not the only concern. The coveted "ADD" is also attributed to many vaccines, as well as actual physical problems. Some vaccines even kill people. The actual number of infant deaths related to vaccination will probably never be known, as the medical establishment likes to refer to the majority of infant deaths as SIDS, even when it is something with a clear-cut cause.

    Autism is highly heritable, although the genetics of autism are complex and it is generally unclear which genes are responsible. Children who develop Autism that was inherited happens much more than from a vaccine.
    Well, then. Tendencies toward overweight are also highly heritable. Does that mean that we should stuff everyone full of junk food and encourage them not to work out? Your argument isn't even an argument. It is entirely non-sequitur. Even if every horrible thing that happens to people was in more cases an attribute of genetics than of environment, there is no reason to act as though the environment means nothing--especially when it is so much more easily controlled than genetics. Responsible parents do their best to prevent problems. Just as most parents wouldn't hand their kid a brick of lard and tell them to eat up, because such practices have been shown to increase health risks, parents who are genuinely informed and concerned about the issue will not have their children, especially at young ages, vaccinated.

    I just think that is something you need to study more about & really consider before you make a decision you may regret.
    There is the potential of regret with every decision. The only people I know who are better informed about this issue are the doctors I have consulted about it and the families I know where vaccinations have changed their course of life, either by creating autism in a child who was born healthy, or any other number of heart-wrenching things. I check my facts, I don't talk out of my ass, and I don't let my soft spot for babies and fluffy kittens guide my world view.

    If babies didn't need it they wouldn't advise it.
    Oh really? I was advised to get braces when I was around 8 or 9 years old. I told my mother not to bother. Strangely enough, as soon as my mother told the dentist that she didn't think I needed braces--my "need" for them became entirely less severe and within a year, went away. The same thing is happening with my wisdom teeth. The same thing happened with my tonsils. Doctors in our country advise a lot of things because it makes them a lot of money. If you're so naive as to believe that everyone in the medical establishment truly just wants to "help people", you ought to think a little bit harder about your choices as a parent.

    Ya bla bla bla it may cause this or that but walking down the street may cause you to get run over by a car.
    This isn't the difference between going for a walk and staying indoors. This is the difference between walking on the sidewalk and walking in the middle of a dragstrip. Even the people on our National medical boards who are in charge of vaccination initiatives have said that they would not want their grandchildren getting them. If the doctor doesn't want his offspring to get the medicine--should your child really get it?

    Oh, of course. These people just don't want their grandchildren to have the vaccinations because they are very kindhearted and want to make sure that there is plenty for everybody before they selfishly set some aside for their kin.

    Another thing to consider...study the chances of autism from vaccines compared to illnesses without the vaccines.
    I had chicken pox when I was a kid, it's common, it rarely ever harms people. I'm fine. Why should I get my child vaccinated for chicken pox? Why should I get my child vaccinated for the flu? If "polio is dead" why should I get my child a polio shot? If I lived in a small village in Africa, I might consider vaccination, but living in what is a relatively cleanly, civilized environment, I don't see a reason for vaccinating myself or my children.

    Why don't you catch HIV so you can get the substantiative treatments they have for it now? Many homosexuals go around trying to contract HIV because it is now possible for people to live fulfilling lives with HIV without developing AIDS.

    You should go get HIV because it may prevent you from getting AIDS. Seriously.
    Do you take any medicine Next World?
    I knew somebody would ask me this. The answer is: rarely. When I do take medicine, it is usually for the sake of expediting a remedy, rather than being in itself the remedy. Usually when I am sick, I fast and I sleep. If I don't have the time to recover Naturally, because I have school and other such things, then I will consider medication. I see a difference.
    Polygamy: it might not be for you, but what right do you have to keep it from me?

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    I think that it's important to distinguish between "immunisation" and "vaccination". Immunisation can be natural passive (such as immunity passed from mother to baby through the breastmilk), natural active (such as building up a natural immunity to a disease after contracting it) or it can be unnatural active (such as conventional vaccination or homeopathic vaccination).

    So while I voted "no" in the poll, I'm not actually opposed to "immunisation" as such, just unnatural immunisation, or vaccination.

    I think that vaccination is a direct attack on the immune system... live viruses (sometimes attenuated - rendering them less effective as a stimulant of immune responses) injected into the body (usually 7 or 8 of them at one time) along with all sorts of other nasties that they put into vaccinations.

    How anyone can think that it is a good idea to artificially invade the body with so many viruses at one time is beyond me....

  7. #7
    Senior Member Cuchulain's Avatar
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    I'm not well read enough on vaccinations to comment on them but I have to say I'm not exactly a germ freak and I never wear my coat when I should or take medicine etc. and I get sick less than anyone I know. And while I'm on the topic, nothing pisses me off more than an obese person complaining about germs. If your supposed to avoid dirt and germs because they are unhealthy then how about you worry about your fat deposits which are just as unhealthy and are actually inside of your body.

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    Autism is highly heritable, although the genetics of autism are complex and it is generally unclear which genes are responsible. Children who develop Autism that was inherited happens much more than from a vaccine.
    There does seem to be an inherited genetic component to the development of Autism. However, as with most genetically determined conditions/illnesses, there needs to be two things present for the condition/illness to manifest physically.... both the inherited genes and an environmental trigger. This means that even if the child has inherited the ability to develop Autism, unless an environmental trigger is present, the physical symptoms of the condition will most likely never manifest.

    It's a possibility I suppose that one or more of the currently available vaccinations could serve as an environmental trigger for Autism. But then, maybe not.

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    Well....like circumcision in America, vaccination is mandatory in Europe and I think some of the vaccines are given in schools?

    Anyways. My take on the subject:

    I understand Next World's logic theoretically, but it applies when you are raising a child in a healthy environment.
    If you are sending your child to school in a filthy urban multiccultural hellhole (as in many European capitals) where all kinds of germs and exotic diseases are lurking, then you might as well send him/her to a firing squad, if you (at least) haven't vaccinated him/her...

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    I believe it is right to give vaccinations to children. It is impossible to say that there is no risk to the child of having a bad reaction, but any risk their may be is very, very small.

    I understand that some parents don't see the need to vaccinate for illnesses which don't appear to exist, but the thing is they do still exist. Without mass vaccination there would be the recurrence of the widespread childhood epidemic's, yes epidemics of Measles, Mumps and Rubella. Some children used to catch all three illnesses and longterm care homes in the early 20th century were full of the unfortunate brain-damaged measles casualties.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridie View Post
    homeopathic vaccination
    Unfortunately the only measurable effect such a vaccine will have, will be on your wallet. Homeopathy is really just a form of "counseling"; if you feel better afterward then fine.However if worked against contagious diseases like Measles and Mumps they should have more or less disappeared in the 1800's. They didn't. Instead it took modern vaccination (which can count Smallpox and at least in the western world, Polio, among it's successes), to significantly reduce the incidence of those illnesses.

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