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Thread: Secession from the U.S.

  1. #101

    Eye-opening poll shows more than 40% of Biden voters and half of Trump voters agree its time to split the country

    IIs it time to split the country?


    Is it time the United States split?


    A surprising new poll published this week has found that many supporters of President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump actually agree on something; namely, that the time has come to split the country.

    The poll — conducted by the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia in partnership with Project Home Fire — found that 41% of Biden voters and 52% of Trump voters favor dividing the country in two between Democratic-voting and Republican-voting states.

    "Yeah, it's gotten that bad," Mediaite writer Colby Hall wrote
    in his report. Here's the relevant portion of the survey:

    Significant numbers of both Trump and Biden voters show a willingness to consider violating democratic tendencies and norms if needed to serve their priorities. Roughly 2 in 10 Trump and Biden voters strongly agree it would be better if a "President could take needed actions without being constrained by Congress or courts," and roughly 4 in 10 (41%) of Biden and half (52%) of Trump voters at least somewhat agree that it's time to split the country, favoring blue/red states seceding from the union.

    Respondents were specifically asked to respond to the following statement: "The situation in America is such that I would favor [Blue/Red] states seceding from the union to form their own separate country."

    The results show that nearly half of Americans from both major political parties believe the nation's political divide has become so toxic and irreparable that secession may well be the best solution.

    It was part of an alarming trend uncovered by the poll, in which the majority of respondents expressed marked disillusionment with the current system of government.

    More than 60% of Biden and Trump voters reportedly said they viewed America as "less a representative democracy and more a system that is run by and rigged for the benefit of the wealthy."

    As a way to fix the problems with America's current political system, respondents seemed to support a more powerful executive branch able to carry out the will of the voters without legislative or judicial checks and balances.

    "Overall, more than two-thirds support ... emboldening and empowering strong leaders and taking the law into their own hands when it comes to dealing with people or groups they view as dangerous," the report stated.

    The UVA Center for Politics called their findings "dangerous and alarming," but Project Home Fire expressed hope the results could lead to more constructive political dialog in the future.

    "Our hope is that, by employing the tools of modern behavioral science, Project Home Fire can develop a deep, data-driven understanding of the fears and concerns animating the increasingly dangerous political and cultural divide in America," Robert McWilliams of Project Home Fire said in a statement.

    "The logical conclusion then, is that it is in the long-term interest of the country to pursue a series of strategies and tactics that encourage bridge-building and constructive dialogue and re-affirm America's reputation as the world's leading representative democracy," Project Home Fire's Larry Schack added.


    Eye-opening poll shows more than 40% of Biden voters and ...

    https://www.theblaze.com/news/poll-u...itting-country
    04 X 2021.
    "America's reputation as the world's leading representative democracy" the Dems installing a fake president took care of that.

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  3. #102
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    Gerrymandering can embolden the enemy, but if each state was to have Popular Sovereignty, this would ensure responsible government.

    What State would you call your own and defend to your death, from either Confederation or Perpetual Union? Imagine if we were like members of the Commonwealth, as each of the Three Kingdoms should be, individually.

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  5. #103
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    I'm a citizen and native son of the Commonwealth of Kentucky, NOT the "United States". Some of my ancestors were already here in the 1770s and 80s riding Daniel Boone and company's coattails well before official statehood. I ain't going anywhere. Kentucky Shall Be Free (in my dreams anyway)!
    "Almost every name belongs to well-known families of English stock....these soldiers were of ancient American lineage"- Prof. N.S. Shaler on the 1st Kentucky "Orphan" Brigade, Confederate States Army

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  7. #104

    End of the U.S.? 52 % Republicans and 41 % Democrats want to secede from Union




    End of the U.S.? 52 % Republicans and 41 % Democrats want to secede from Union



    Her
    land Report: End of the U.S.? The political division in the United States is rapidly deteriorating towards ‘red’ states seceding from the union, according to a University of Virginia Center for Politics report.

    It found that more than half of Republicans and nearly half of Democrats wanted to secede from the Union.

    The new initiative explored deep, divide between Biden and Trump voters:

    — Majorities — often large majorities — of both Biden and Trump voters express some form of distrust for voters, elected officials, and media sources they associate with the other side. A strong majority of Trump voters see no real difference between Democrats and socialists, and a majority of Biden voters at least somewhat agree that there is no real difference between Republicans and fascists.


    End of the U.S.? The report further found that:

    — Significant numbers of both Trump and Biden voters show a willingness to consider violating democratic tendencies and norms if needed to serve their priorities. Roughly 2 in 10 Trump and Biden voters strongly agree it would be better if a “President could take needed actions without being constrained by Congress or courts,” and roughly 4 in 10 (41%) of Biden and half (52%) of Trump voters at least somewhat agree that it’s time to split the country, favoring blue/red states seceding from the union.

    “The divide between Trump and Biden voters is deep, wide, and dangerous. The scope is unprecedented, and it will not be easily fixed,” said UVA Center for Politics Director Larry J. Sabato.

    — On one hand, roughly 80% of Trump and Biden voters view democracy as preferable to any non-democratic kind of government.

    — On the other hand, more than 6 in 10 Trump and Biden voters see America as less a representative democracy and more a system that is run by and rigged for the benefit of the wealthy.

    — Overall, more than two-thirds support — and one-third strongly — emboldening and empowering strong leaders and taking the law into their own hands when it comes to dealing with people or groups they view as dangerous.

    End of the U.S.? A majority of both parties agreed that if society wants, it is the duty of every citizen to help eliminate the “evil that poinsons our country from within”, arguably referring to the other party.






    If it was right for the USSR to split up why is not right for the USA?

    I remember someone saying it would be so much better for Russia not to have so many countries to look after and for Russia to just care for Russians.

  8. #105

    Three Reasons to Start Taking Secession Seriously


    3 Reasons to Start Taking Secession Seriously


    Last month, the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia released a new study which showed that, at least among those polled, "roughly 4 in 10 (41%) of Biden and half (52%) of Trump voters at least somewhat agree that it's time to split the country, favoring blue/red states seceding from the union."


    Moreover, majorities in both groups agreed there are "many radical, immoral people trying to ruin things" and that "it is the duty of every true citizen to help eliminate the evil that poisons our country from within."


    On might conclude that people who think that things are generally going well in a country aren't so concerned with "the evil within" that they think it's time to "split the country."


    It seems that President Biden has been unable to "unite" the country after all, in spite of
    his promises that it's "time to heal in America" and that he will "be a president who seeks not to divide, but to unify." Rather, it appears the country embraces a hard divide over a variety of issues, with vaccine mandates and parental rights in public education being only the most current ones.


    At this point, there's no reason to believe these divides are simply going to go away. Secession is likely to become even more mainstream, as has been occurring in recent years, and as the old "liberal consensus" of the mid-twentieth century recedes ever more into the distant past.


    Rather, experience increasingly points toward separation, even if such events seem far off. In the real world, after all, major political changes can come suddenly and in unexpected ways. In 1987, most Soviets still assumed the USSR would continue to exist for many more decades—if not centuries. Because of this, now is the time to begin asking the difficult questions about secession and how military and financial questions can be addressed.


    Considering all this, we see three main reasons why it is increasingly unwise to ignore secession as a serious possibility.


    Secession Went Mainstream



    The first reason we must now take secession seriously is that it's no longer a topic of discussion only among the most radical.


    In 2014, for example, a quarter of those polled said they thought their state should secede. By 2018, 39% were saying they think a state should "have the final say" as to whether or not that state remains part of the United States. In 2020, more than a third of those polled said states have a legal right to secede.


    Mainstream conservatives increasingly suggest the possibility, from Rush Limbaugh to Dennis Prager. Indeed, just last week, Prager admitted that secession offers a chance to live in a country that better reflects one's own values. Should secession happen, Prager said, " I would live in a state governed by Judeo-Christian values versus one governed by left-wing values." Even elderly conservatives are starting to grasp the idea: separation brings choice, and choice is better than ossified notions of "patriotism."


    Indeed, it appears it's no coincidence that older conservative operatives like Prager have been among those who are late to warm to the idea of secession. According to Zogby's 2020 poll on secession, favorable attitudes toward secession decline as the polled group gets older. In the 18–29-year-old group, a majority (52%) think states have a legal right to secede. In the over-65 group the number is only 23%. In other words, the dogma of national unity is a dogma of older generations. Not only is secession increasingly mainstream, but it may be the wave of the future as well.


    Meanwhile, members of Congress—including Iowa's Steven Holt and Georgia's Marjorie Taylor Greene—now openly speak well of secession. They wouldn't say this if they didn't think their constituents agreed with them.


    Moreover, we might measure the growth of the secessionist position by the number of pundits who now feel the need to condemn it. Once upon a time, secession was regarded as so "out there" that it scarcely deserved any attention at all. No longer. Nowadays, conservative Beltway pundits feel the need to go on rants about it on Fox News.


    The Left's Unionists Want to Run Your Life



    A second reason to take secession seriously is the fact that the Left doesn't seem to be learning anything from the rise of separatism. Just as many Americans appear to be embracing a posture in opposition to rule from the center, the Left is doubling down on the idea that more local autonomy is not to be tolerated.


    A clear example of this is the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act introduced in the US Senate. The legislation, if passed, would give Washington vast new powers in regulating and controlling how states conduct their own elections. Originally, of course, state governments had almost total control over how elections were governed and conducted within each state. This makes sense in a country that began as a collection of sovereign republics. Just as EU member states conduct their elections in a way that's locally controlled, the same was once true for the US. Over time—as in most policy areas—the federal government asserted more control. But with the Voting Rights Advancement Act, local control over elections would be virtually abolished, with most any changes subject to a federal imprimatur.


    Naturally, opposition to surrendering state elections to federal control is denounced as motivated by racism and other nefarious goals. And this is reflective of the Left's opposition to secession and decentralization in general. The idea is "we can't let those people run their own affairs, because they're sure to use local prerogatives for evil."


    For example, when condemning secession in New York magazine, Democratic strategist Ed Kilgore made it clear he has no intention of letting people do much of anything without federal "oversight."


    He writes:
    So might we drift apart more or less peacefully this time around? Possibly, but count me out when it comes to agreeing to a National Divorce…. [H]ow could I happily accept the accelerated subjugation of women and people of color in a new, adjacent Red America, any more than abolitionists could accept the continuation and expansion of the slavery they hated? Would it really be safe to live near a carbon-mad country in which the denial of climate change was an article of faith? And could I ever trust that a "neighbor" whose leadership and citizens believed their policies reflected the unchanging ancient will of the Almighty would leave our fences intact?


    Kilgore can barely contain his contempt. He might as well be saying, "If those red state troglodytes are allowed freedom, they'll surely embrace a racist and misogynistic dystopia that fills the air with poisonous fumes. These are religious zealots, after all!"


    Anyone who doesn't want to live out his or her life as subject to the whims of men like Kilgore should take his few moments of candor as an ominous warning. These people will never "happily accept" self-governance outside Washington's purview, because they quite literally equate it with slavery and the hatred of women.


    In other words, the more the Left condemns secession in detail—as they must now do because dismissive scoffing no longer works—they only provide additional reasons for why secession is likely the only real solution to the national divide.


    Now Is the Time to Ask the Difficult Questions



    Finally, the mainstreaming of secession means now is the appropriate time to start asking the difficult questions about how separation would actually take place.


    For example, the issue of nuclear weapons cannot be ignored—although the case of post-Soviet Ukraine shows it's not as intractable a problem as many suspect. Moreover, the question of the national debt ought to be approached. It will likely also be necessary to admit that under all realistic scenarios, a partial default is the likely outcome either with or without secession. And finally, there is the problem of "ethnic" enclaves. Historically, this always comes with secession, as with the ethnic Russians in the secessionist Baltics or the pro-Spaniard populations left behind throughout Latin America in the nineteenth century. Moreover, how "complete" would this separation be? It is entirely conceivable that a United States with two or more self-governing pieces could nevertheless remain under a single head of state or within a single military alliance.


    In real life, big political changes have a habit of occurring regardless of what the official planners want, and what the official plans say. That is, events have a way of overwhelming what the elites think is the proper way of doing things. But fostering serious discussion now could help avert at least some unpleasant surprises in the longer term. On the other hand, living in denial about secession won't improve things. And, of course, the matter of secession is not one of "if" but "when." All polities come to an end at some point either through disintegration or revolution. In many cases, the world improves when old states like the Roman Empire collapse. The fanciful America-will-last-forever position is something that should seem plausible only to small children or the hopelessly naïve.



    Author: Contact Ryan McMaken


    It is time to dismantle the United States of America and let the people go their own way. Most western countries suffer from gigantism which artificially creates high stake elections and high stake politics that operates in a winner takes all and one-size-fits-all.
    That is an insane situation that cannot last.


    The three big reasons to support secession (or the complete dissolution of the federal government in general) are the Executive Branch, the Legislative Branch, and the Judicial Branch.


    Ponzi Scheme->Recession->Depression->Refresh->Ponzi scheme
    or
    Ponzi scheme->Recession->Depression->Refresh->Cessation/Secession
    How successful will the Refresh be?
    If it ain't, then one has to wonder, how many toys does the Fed have that "We The People" don't know about to make up for it?



    Secession also negates all legal responsibility to federal debt unless the country is willing to go to war to stop it.
    That in an of itself is a good reason because it means future generations won't have to be debt slaves....



    "That is how American federalism was supposed to work. The three branches of the central government would check each other, but it would be up to the sovereign States to keep the central government itself in check. The Constitution was to be enforced through political action of the States not by the legalism of nine unelected Supreme Court justices." Donald Livingston
    The great flaw in our system of "checks and balances". Who has ever "checked" the SCOTUS? (since Andrew Jackson)
    The Court is a branch of the Federal Government, and has continually over time, and most notably under Marshall, eroded the States Rights intended by the Constitution in favor of the Federal Government. Its been Two vs One.
    Three steps to Secession.
    Interposition...(.public opinion, protests, petitions, and legitimate actions of state legislatures—focused attention on whether the government was acting in conformity with the Constitution.)
    Nullification
    Finally, Secession

    We were warned.... the greatest threats - Central Banks and the Courts.



    MISESINSTITUTE
    3 Reasons To Start Taking Secession Seriously 31 X 2021.

    The charlatan ruling elite know the only way to stay in office is to change the electorate.
    That's the reason for the endless wave of paid fake asylum seekers and the 'stolen' Presidential election.

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  10. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYAnglo View Post
    I'm a citizen and native son of the Commonwealth of Kentucky, NOT the "United States". Some of my ancestors were already here in the 1770s and 80s riding Daniel Boone and company's coattails well before official statehood. I ain't going anywhere. Kentucky Shall Be Free (in my dreams anyway)!
    I agree that pre-Statehood inhabitants and their descendants ought to call the shots in each State. Each of the 50 has a society from before Union admission, although more marked in the original Anglo-Saxon 13 inclusive of minor Irish in Maryland and Scottish in Georgia, with French Louisiana/Texas and Polynesian Hawaii trailing behind.

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  12. #107
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    From past experience, border states can't handle the problems with Mexico and Central America. Texas was once an independent territory, a separate country for 11 years. Mexicans and Indians became a frequent problem with raids and instability so Texas agreed to join US in 1845 but later succeeded over state rights issues and slavery. Texas can succeed again due to its constitution and large economy, about the size of Germany, if they wish. Except, the US government would never allow this to happen because of its energy and oil production and port access with the Gulf. NAFTA sealed its death with its unlimited supply of cheap labor and migrants. Many whites are starting to leave Texas for other States away from the border area with less crime and migration, especially into CO, MT, TN, UH and general Midwest. Of course, the government imports in MENA into the Midwest equally well as people deny their presence.

  13. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterland View Post
    From past experience, border states can't handle the problems with Mexico and Central America. Texas was once an independent territory, a separate country for 11 years. Mexicans and Indians became a frequent problem with raids and instability so Texas agreed to join US in 1845 but later succeeded over state rights issues and slavery. Texas can succeed again due to its constitution and large economy, about the size of Germany, if they wish. Except, the US government would never allow this to happen because of its energy and oil production and port access with the Gulf. NAFTA sealed its death with its unlimited supply of cheap labor and migrants. Many whites are starting to leave Texas for other States away from the border area with less crime and migration, especially into CO, MT, TN, UH and general Midwest. Of course, the government imports in MENA into the Midwest equally well as people deny their presence.
    Texas failed because they were part of the American claim to French Louisiana and whatever else they took from Spanish Mexico was actually New Mexico and without having legal rights to. In a sense, Texas was to Louisiana, Arizona was to New Mexico and Deseret (Utah) was to California what Ontario was to Québec; Anglo partitions from other territories. Most people only think of the Kansas-Nebraska Act with regard to Louisiana, but they were more of a continuation of Missouri settlement.

  14. #109

    The American republic is in dire peril, new book warns



    "The Dying Citizen: How Progressive Elites, Tribalism, and Globalization Are Destroying the Idea of America"






    "The Dying Citizen: How Progressive Elites, Tribalism, and Globalization Are Destroying the Idea of America" by Victor Davis Hanson.


    Historian Victor Davis Hanson’s ‘The Dying Citizen’ rails against the forces of globalists, unelected elites and ‘evolutionaries’ that he says are undermining the traditions of the United States for their own benefit.


    Hanson is one of America’s most renowned and respected historians. He is also an incisive political commentator and regular on US cable networks. His most recent project has been his polemic book, ‘The Dying Citizen’, which was released last month in the US and has just gone on sale here in the UK.


    The overarching premise of the book is that the kind of citizenship Americans have enjoyed for the past century is slowly being eroded from within. The villains of the piece are a conglomerate of nefarious forces, which are often intertwined. They include the “unelected,” the “globalists,” and what Hanson calls “evolutionaries.”


    Hanson believes the American system is the nearest the world has to an ideal model, and therefore must be protected. Indeed, at the outset, he notes that today only “little more than half of the world’s seven billion people are citizens of fully constitutional governments enjoying constitutionally protected freedom.”


    Hanson began his academic career as a classicist and he is able to skillfully weave historical events from the ancient world into the narrative, while explaining why they remain relevant today. Indeed, he rarely misses the opportunity to compare the mistakes made in Ancient Greece and the Roman Empire to what has been happening in the US over the past few decades.


    According to Hanson, open borders have also diluted citizenship, as the role of the “resident” has become increasingly conflated with the rights of the “citizen.” He notes, however, that lax borders were, prior to Donald Trump at least, supported by both Republicans and Democrats, albeit for different reasons. Hanson notes that “in America, quiet revolutions occur most often when both the right and left collude in a tacit agreement to change the system for their own particular interests.” Big business got cheap labour; the left got more voters.


    Hanson is equally contemptuous of how migrants are treated once they arrive in the US. He contends that the current obsession with identity politics results in migrants not assimilating; instead, they are encouraged to celebrate their own “tribal identities.” A fractured society, as we see in the US today, has been the inevitable result. I get the impression Hanson longs for the day when all US citizens, regardless of colour, creed, or religion, see themselves solely as Americans, and not through the prism of race or language. I believe this to be a noble ideal, although I suspect it is somewhat utopian, especially in the current climate.


    So, who is to blame for this sorry state of affairs?


    Hanson first takes aim at the “unelected,” and by that he means what Trump called the “deep state.” He argues that the “unelected,” who are often free from public scrutiny and out of sight, are either used for political purposes, or themselves have political agendas. He cites the Inland Revenue Service’s (IRS), which in effect shut down the Tea Party movement a decade ago, as a prime example. Others Hanson refers to as the shady “unelected” include the FBI and the CIA, which hounded Trump for years and propagated the “Russia hoax.”


    Then there are the “evolutionaries,” as Hanson calls them, who want to rewrite, or indeed undermine, the US Constitution. He cites Barack Obama, who wants to alter the Electoral College by making Washington, DC a state in its own right, as well as liberal Puerto Rico. The Constitution, it seems, is under almost permanent attack from the “evolutionaries.” Indeed, whether it is the Supreme Court, which the Democrats want to expand, the abolition of the right to bear arms, free speech, or the elimination of the Senate filibuster… it seems never ending, and it is all coming from one side.


    Finally, Hanson targets theglobalists, who he describes as being “like the royal families of Europe before World War I, incestuously related and essentially more akin to each other than to their constituents.” These “privileged utopians,” he argues, put the interests of the world – or more often than not, China – before the interests of their own country. He cites Michael Bloomberg, who censured his own reporters on Bloomberg News for criticising the Chinese Communist Party, and Bill Gates, as just two examples.



    Hanson clearly laments the defeat of Trump last year, as he viewed him as a bulwark against the dilution of American citizenship. He also does not have much faith in the current administration, which he perceives as part of the problem, and certainly not the cure. Hanson argues that “globalists” generally view themselves as citizens of the world. Moreover, he claims they are protected by their wealth from the harmful policies they promote. For example, it is the working and middle classes who suffer because of the expensive environmental schemes pushed by the “globalists,” and it is the wages of working people that is driven down by the never-ending influx of cheap foreign labour. The “globalists” just reap the benefits.


    On the whole, I found Hanson’s arguments compelling, but, at the same time, somewhat depressing. I found myself asking why a great nation is determined to kill itself by a thousand cuts? However, I suppose I could apply Hanson’s thesis to much of the Western world, which also seems hell-bent on committing cultural and economic suicide.


    So, in conclusion, does Hanson think there is any way America can save itself? Well, yes, but only if a figure with the stature of Trump emerges in the near future. He concludes by asserting that those who are determined to preserve citizenship must continue to fight because “the stakes are no less than preservation of the American republic itself.”


    And as a postscript, maybe the fightback Hanson so desires began this week with the election of Republican Glenn Youngkin in Virginia, and the rejection by Minneapolitans of a proposal to defund the police. So perhaps there is a glimmer of hope after all.



    These civic nationalists are living in a fantasy world if they think the US is salvageable or that this country is in "peril". This country was in "peril" 30 years ago, now it is just a walking corpse.


    "Powerful New Jersey Senate Democrat says '12,000 ballots recently found' support refusal to concede to truck driver" from the washington examiner.


    Regardless of party the US government represents corporations and capitalists.


    you we can split hairs over whether America is Socialist, Crony-Capitalist, Imperialist or Fascist. But that's academic and irrelevant. All those systems boil down to the same.


    The American republic is in dire peril, new book warns 07 XI 2021.

    Dare you say it, everyone knows the 'tribe' runs the USA.

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  16. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagdmesser View Post
    Dare you say it, everyone knows the 'tribe' runs the USA.
    Hanson himself is a universalist, if you actually read his worldview.

    BTW, Youngkin is a lefty, with a biracial ticket.

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