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Thread: Who Were the Proto-Indo-Europeans?

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    Senior Member Elysium's Avatar
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    Who Were the Proto-Indo-Europeans?

    I've been trying to find out, but it's been very hard to find "the answer" or the most probable answer.

    Where were the original Europeans (Proto-Indo-European?) from and what sub-race did they, mostly, belong to?
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    It is hard to tell where they derive from racewise. I suppose many of protoindeuropean vocabulary must have been preserved in European languages. Lokk just at protogermanic: linguistts claim that some 25% of its vocabulary is of nonindoeuropean origin. Some of them may come from Ugro-Finnic languages, but most of them cannot be traced down. Thes concerns mainly words connected with sea (this very word too) and sailing or with agroculture. Therefore it seems a logical conclusion that those protoindoeuropeans must have taught the Germans these things.

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    Well pre-indo-europeans include Ugro-Finnics, Basques, Picts, Etruscans etc. I suggest you look up these terms:

    Salutreans
    Cro-magnon
    Upper paleolithic
    Bell beaker
    Aurignacian
    Dinaric race
    Alpine race
    Nordic race
    Mediterranean race
    Finnic peoples
    Megaliths
    Slavic peoples


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

    Basic, yet this should keep you reading.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysium View Post
    I've been trying to find out, but it's been very hard to find "the answer" or the most probable answer.

    Where were the original Europeans (Proto-Indo-European?) from and what sub-race did they, mostly, belong to?

    Well, the original Europeans (anatomically modern that is, as opposed to the Neanderthals) were not Indo-European speakers. IE came to Europe at a later date than the arrival of Cro-Magnons and other early anatomically modern humans. So, they were pre-Indo-European as opposed to proto.

    As for the carriers and spreaders of IE itself, I would have a look at this fantastic book on the topic:

    http://www.amazon.com/Indo-European-Origins-Anthropological-John-Day/dp/0941694755

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    The first H. Spaiens to reach Europe arrived about 40.000 years ago and IE people originated in western Asia about 4000 BC.

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    Senior Member Elysium's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone so far. I'm going to try and buy that book when it becomes available... but until then I have some questions.

    The people who "spread IE language", who were they? Or were they multiple people?

    Also... I've been interested in the Etruscans for awhile, but it's confusing... I've read some people who say they were Italic peoples and some who say they are Negroids.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elysium View Post
    Thanks everyone so far. I'm going to try and buy that book when it becomes available... but until then I have some questions.

    The people who "spread IE language", who were they? Or were they multiple people?
    Aryans, Indo-Europeans, whatever you want to call them. They broke into several groups after they invaded Europe and Asia from East Ukraine/Southern Russia. Persians (extinct), Germanics, Slavs, Anatolians (extinct), Indians (extinct), Tocharians (extinct) Greeks, Latins, Celts.
    Think thats all of them. Most Europeans are descendants of them, some more than others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysium View Post
    Also... I've been interested in the Etruscans for awhile, but it's confusing... I've read some people who say they were Italic peoples and some who say they are Negroids.
    Etruscans were pre-Indo-European, no reason to think they were negroid though. They are probably more similar to modern Italians then are the Latins who came after them as far as sub-race goes.

    And I don't think anyone can really say what their sub race was definitively, but I am inclined more towards Nordic, as all the areas colonized by them have a Nordic strain and don't really have any other sub-races in common. Also, old Indo-European Mummies found in China were apparently Nordic and were unmixed as far as I know (see: Tarim mummies).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier of Wodann View Post
    Aryans, Indo-Europeans, whatever you want to call them. They broke into several groups after they invaded Europe and Asia from East Ukraine/Southern Russia. Persians (extinct), Germanics, Slavs, Anatolians (extinct), Indians (extinct), Tocharians (extinct) Greeks, Latins, Celts.
    Think thats all of them. Most Europeans are descendants of them, some more than others.


    Etruscans were pre-Indo-European, no reason to think they were negroid though. They are probably more similar to modern Italians then are the Latins who came after them as far as sub-race goes.

    And I don't think anyone can really say what their sub race was definitively, but I am inclined more towards Nordic, as all the areas colonized by them have a Nordic strain and don't really have any other sub-races in common. Also, old Indo-European Mummies found in China were apparently Nordic and were unmixed as far as I know (see: Tarim mummies).
    Thanks a lot!

    I guess that's where Nordicism comes from. :p
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soldier of Wodann View Post
    Aryans, Indo-Europeans, whatever you want to call them. They broke into several groups after they invaded Europe and Asia from East Ukraine/Southern Russia. Persians (extinct), Germanics, Slavs, Anatolians (extinct), Indians (extinct), Tocharians (extinct) Greeks, Latins, Celts.
    Think thats all of them. Most Europeans are descendants of them, some more than others.


    Etruscans were pre-Indo-European, no reason to think they were negroid though. They are probably more similar to modern Italians then are the Latins who came after them as far as sub-race goes.

    And I don't think anyone can really say what their sub race was definitively, but I am inclined more towards Nordic, as all the areas colonized by them have a Nordic strain and don't really have any other sub-races in common. Also, old Indo-European Mummies found in China were apparently Nordic and were unmixed as far as I know (see: Tarim mummies).
    My wife is Persian and she is not extinct. She is not Iranian. Iranians are turks with Dinaric phenotypes. She is Persian. Persians still do live in Iran and I have many pictures on them.

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    Along with the book linked by Allenson, I would also recommend Jean Haudry's book "The Indo-Europeans" which is available right now.

    He discusses practically everything about the original PIE speaking group (not those who may have been living in Europe proper earlier, BTW). Community structure, religion, racial characteristics, geographical origin, etc.

    There's a number of competing theories regarding geographical placement. One of the most important is the so-called "Kurgan hypothesis" formulated by Gimbutas. The scenario:



    Another prominent one is the "Anatolian hypothesis" which was advanced by Renfrew. It's generally rejected nowadays because it's seen as relying too heavily on somewhat flimsy linguistic evidence and little else. The scenario:


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