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Thread: "North-Atlantids" Do Not Exist

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    I'd like to see someone explain how a Keltic Nordic like Peter Cushing is a gracialised UP :p



    Nordics are just not an important population factor in northern Europe compared to the indigenous types such as Phalian and Bruenn.

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    I said genetically speaking. Of course they exist phenotypically.

    The man you posted is phenotypically Nordid and/or could almost fit into Coon's A-S category.

    What I'm saying is that the Nordid phenotype is dervitive, in large part, from the original, more rugged and craggy Upper Paleolithic folk and not just blond Mediterraneans (a rather silly notion if you ask me as the bone structure of phenotypic Nordids and phenotypic gracile Meds is quite different).


    It only makes sense that genetics believe Northern Europe to be derived from Upper Paleolithics because in fact it is. Nordics are a small minority in Northern Europe, this is what we have been saying all along.
    Then we agree!

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    I'm quite open minded to the possibility that Nordics are derived originally from UP types. But the claim that UP phenotypes are more common than Nordic phenotypes in England or Sweden is laughable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneEnglishNorman View Post
    I'd like to see someone explain how a Keltic Nordic like Peter Cushing is a gracialised UP :p.
    I was speaking of Scandonordids. The Keltic type (which really isn't Nordid) is different. But, that being said, there has been a process of gracilization in the human form for a long time. Explain how an anatomical modern came from Erectus. It's a process. Genetically, this fellow was/is probably largely derivitive from the original anatomically modern humans that settled Europe--so of of course he is a gracilized UP. You wouldn't agree with this? Unless you believe the Keltic phenotype and underlying genotype to come from another source than Upper Paleolithic survivors. In which case, you'd be contradicting yourself.

    And OK, then you explain the Keltic phenotype to me. Where did it come from?

    Nordics are just not an important population factor in northern Europe compared to the indigenous types such as Phalian and Bruenn.
    Agreed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allenson View Post
    I said genetically speaking. Of course they exist phenotypically.

    The man you posted is phenotypically Nordid and/or could almost fit into Coon's A-S category.

    What I'm saying is that the Nordid phenotype is dervitive, in large part, from the original, more rugged and craggy Upper Paleolithic folk and not just blond Mediterraneans (a rather silly notion if you ask me as the bone structure of phenotypic Nordids and phenotypic gracile Meds is quite different).
    Then we agree!

    We disagree on the origin of Nordics. This individual is very similar to a Mediterranean morphologically speaking, compare

    Nordic

    Atlanto Med


    And UPs

    Bruenn

    Southern UP

    A Phalian is even more different


    It makes no sense to beleive that Nordics are derived from UPs, rather that Nordics and Meds are types of eventually similar or the same origin with some variations. There are gracialized UPs around, Ed Harris for example



    and they don't look Nordic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelcynn Beorn View Post
    The difference is i'm using the accepted definitions of the words and the types in question.
    Not at all. The terms we use are long established. Coon did not write of North-Atlantids. Lundman did, and provided no examples. The NA term survives to this day as something entirely dubious, both theoretically and in the examples given.

    You are simply rewriting the entire racial history of Europe,
    To an extent yes, insofar as we are debunking wrong-headed notions about the sub-racial situation in northern Europe.

    but providing no evidence to support your claims,
    Simply not the case at all.

    and being frankly condescending to everyone who dares to disagree with your unsupported opinions.
    My posts compare well to yours in that regard

    Can you even give an example of a person who isn't too heavy featured, by your definition, to be considered pure Atlantid or Nordic?
    Yes, see the thread in my signature.

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    To an extent yes, insofar as we are debunking wrong-headed notions about the sub-racial situation in northern Europe.
    Actually, even this is debatable as Coon's later notion of a NW European racial type is in agreement with UP predominance in NW Europe.

    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=4137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelcynn Beorn View Post
    But the claim that UP phenotypes are more common than Nordic phenotypes in England or Sweden is laughable.
    I'm not supporting Amorsite but IMHO Cro-Magnid influence is very strong in the British isles, the majority i think are Cro-Magnid derivates and Atlanto-Nordid/Cromagnoid types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneEnglishNorman View Post
    Not at all. The terms we use are long established. Coon did not write of North-Atlantids. Lundman did, and provided no examples. The NA term survives to this day as something entirely dubious, both theoretically and in the examples given.
    Coon did write of Nordics though, and gave many examples of them, and so have many other anthropologists. So arbritarily declaring that they don't exist as an influential type needs a lot of evidence to support it.

    To an extent yes, insofar as we are debunking wrong-headed notions about the sub-racial situation in northern Europe.
    And you say you aren't being condescending?

    Simply not the case at all.
    Entirely the case. You have given no evidence here to support your theories other than your personal opinion of what various individuals classifications are.

    Yes, see the thread in my signature.
    Well seeing that you think that Ulrikka Jonsson is too heavy featured and wide mouthed to be considered Nordic, i'm curious what you'll make of this example. It's an example Coon uses to show a pure Nordic type, and it's forehead is much heavier, and mouth just as wide.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelcynn Beorn View Post
    Coon did write of Nordics though, and gave many examples of them, and so have many other anthropologists. So arbritarily declaring that they don't exist as an influential type needs a lot of evidence to support it.
    Coon changed his mind later on Nordic predominance, see the NW European type thread. I am Neo-Coonist. If Coon was writing in 2008, he would agree with me.

    The evidence will be forthcoming, it's something which needs to be addressed.


    And you say you aren't being condescending?
    You're being more uppity than me being condescending.


    Entirely the case. You have given no evidence here to support your theories other than your personal opinion of what various individuals classifications are.
    Apart from many paragraphs and photos, ok.


    Well seeing that you think that Ulrikka Jonsson is too heavy featured and wide mouthed to be considered Nordic, i'm curious what you'll make of this example. It's an example Coon uses to show a pure Nordic type, and it's forehead is much heavier, and mouth just as wide.
    He's likely somewhat Phalian, therefore not a good example of unmixed Nordic. I disagree with some of Coon's Nordics. The main thing is his morphological approach which is key. That became more important to him later. He was too reliant on metrics earlier.

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