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Thread: Russia rattles its depleted sabre in the Atlantic

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    Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    Russia rattles its depleted sabre in the Atlantic

    Russia rattles its depleted sabre in the Atlantic

    Telegraph .. 22/01/2008

    The Kremlin has flexed its military might off the European coastline as Russian warships and nuclear bombers test fired missiles close to the Iberian peninsular during the first major military manouevres in the Atlantic since the Cold War.

    The Tupolev Tu-160 "Blackjack" bomber .
    The RAF and the Norwegian Air Force were forced to scramble fighter jets to shadow Russian long-range bombers headed for the Bay of Biscay where vessels from the Northern and Black Sea fleets have begun three days of exercises.

    The manouevres are the latest indication of President Vladimir Putin's intent to project Russia's growing military prowess to the international community and to pander to growing nationalist sentiment at home.

    The Russian Air Force said that two Tu160 bombers, known in the West as Blackjacks, would conduct tactical missile launches off the Spanish and Portugese coastlines. Both countries, Russia said, had been informed in advance.

    Earlier, the guided missile cruiser Moskva, flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, took part in a live fire exercise that a navy spokesman said was 100 per cent successful.

    Although Russia gave warning of the exercises to Nato countries last year, the operation is likely to cause an element of disquiet in the West - albeit more for political than military reasons.

    As East-West relations have soured, Mr Putin responded last year by ordering a resumption of long-range bomber patrols in international airspace for the first time since the Soviet era.

    He also threatened to retrain part of Russia's considerable nuclear arsenal on European targets if a proposed US missile defence shield, to be built in Poland and the Czech Republic by 2012, is not scrapped.

    Yet for all the posturing, Russia still carries a small stick militarily - big enough to impress ordinary Russians at a time when Mr Putin is plotting to retain power behind the scenes after elections this March but too puny to frighten the West just yet.

    While the president has sharply increased defence spending and commissioned a new generation of nuclear missiles, Russia's defence budget is a tenth of the United States' and is also smaller than Britain.

    The Atlantic exercises - described by a Russian navy source as "the biggest exercise of its kind in the area since Soviet times" - have also shown that Russia's conventional military hardware remain in a sorry state.....

    For unexplained reasons, a number of ships meant to participate stayed at home and those that did sail are in poor condition. The Moskva is 30 years old, while the Admiral Kuznetzov, Russia's rickety aircraft carrier, spends much of its time in dry docks undergoing repairs.

    In a token gesture of East-West co-operation, the French navy has agreed to send an anti-submarine frigate to join the exercises. The Russian flotilla had earlier docked in Toulon........


    While Russia's military prowess may still be dubious, its growing status as an energy superpower is not. Russia and Serbia yesterday agreed a pipeline deal that will boost Moscow's energy control over Europe.
    Last week a similar deal was agreed with Bulgaria.

    -----------------------

    ...... I suspect that people will view this news in different ways!!eyes:

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    Who are the Russians trying to intimidate with these maneuvers? The Portuguese? The EU? Apparently they are not capable of doing this off either coast of the US.

    While Russia's military prowess may still be dubious, its growing status as an energy superpower is not.
    Without current high prices foir natural resources, the Russian economy would tank. Longterm they may not be better off then Saudi Arabia or Iran, which without oil, neither would matter. Except the Russians still have a nuclear arsenal.eyes:

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    This is probably their way of saying lets be friends or else to the EU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Æmeric View Post
    Who are the Russians trying to intimidate with these maneuvers? The Portuguese? The EU? Apparently they are not capable of doing this off either coast of the US.
    This is just the first move in a bigger game and so far they're playing by the unwritten rules of the logic of fear. This is the only way that nation has been able to constantly rehabilitate its misguided self-esteem since the golden days of Genghis Khan. A nation that has for hundreds of years equated fear/anxiety with respect, barbarism with civilization, etc. They began intimidating the Norwegians a couple of years ago - a weak nation not being a EU-member state.

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    Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vingolf View Post
    . This equated fear/anxiety with respect, barbarism with civilization, etc. They began intimidating the Norwegians a couple of years ago - a weak nation - not being a EU-member state.
    ....Norway is surely backed up by NATO ---it is small but oil rich, and therefore quite wealthy. The Russians would be better advised if they took some notes about how to operate! As it is , the Norwegian airforce is there, keeping watch on their antics. ( see #1)

    However there are plenty of Germans who might be listening to the Russia song.....we have been there before. It does have a certain logic.... but isnt exactly pro-Western! -- but then, look what the west is doing with itself.....


    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=4381

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    Senior Member Freydis's Avatar
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    Norway is indeed backed by NATO, but I don't see NATO as a positive thing either.
    People turn to poison as quick as lager turns to piss

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freydis View Post
    Norway is indeed backed by NATO, but I don't see NATO as a positive thing either.
    NATO gives the US a very strong say in Europe. Russia vs Europe in a Military conflict. Russia would win easily. Unless Germany is allowed to rearm. Germany is the only truely Powerful nation in Europe(which is why the US has Military bases in Germany).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    While Russia's military prowess may still be dubious, its growing status as an energy superpower is not.
    What is wrong with intellect and common sense? Does that have no value?

    The idea that Russia is eastern and Europe is western is entirely ridiculous! Who was the moron who started this nonsensical view anyway? Are Russians not of European descent? Are Britons the ideal Europeans? Hmm. And I thought we had bigger fish to fry!
    "The human state is an exit." -Frithjof Schuon

    "Make me immortal in that realm where they move even as they list, in the third sphere of inmost heaven where lucid worlds are full of light." -Rig Veda IX.113

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    Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    well of course Russia is partly European.... but then, so is America........

    As for Germany - they don't much warm to the idea of wars these days and can anyone blame them?

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    Senior Member Freydis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DriftWood View Post
    NATO gives the US a very strong say in Europe. Russia vs Europe in a Military conflict. Russia would win easily. Unless Germany is allowed to rearm. Germany is the only truely Powerful nation in Europe(which is why the US has Military bases in Germany).
    USA is not Europe and does not understand Europe, in my opinion. The average American knows hardly anything on the topic of Europe as well. So having a strong say via NATO in Europe is ridiculous

    It's also ridiculous to doubt European military power. And how is Germany the only truly powerful nation in Europe?

    (US has military bases in Germany for historical reasons and its central location, nothing to do with being "the most powerful".).

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    well of course Russia is partly European.... but then, so is America........
    Russia is way more European than USA.
    People turn to poison as quick as lager turns to piss

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