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Thread: Estimated Racial Composition and Nordish Percentage of Indigenous European Population

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    Estimated Racial Composition and Nordish Percentage of Indigenous European Population

    Estimated Racial Composition in Europe

    Sweden = 70% Hallstatt Nordic (Carleton Coon described Sweden as a refuge area for the classic Nordic race), 10% Borreby (most common in the southwest coastal region, Upper Palelithic remains or UP), 10% Falish (most common in Dalarna (Kopparberg) and the southwest coastal region, UP+Nordic mix), 5% Tronder (most common near the central Norwegian border, UP+Nordic mix), 5% East Baltic (UP+Nordic mix)= 70% Nordic / 30% UP+Nordic mix (UP+N)

    Norway = 45% Tronder (most common in the W), 30% Hallstatt Nordic (most common in the SE area around Oslo, pure Nordic), 10% Borreby (most common in the SW, UP), 7% Falish (most common in the south, UP+N), 5% East Baltic (most common in the far north, UP+N+L, L is semioriental Lagodan), 3% Palaeo-Atlantid (found in western coastal areas) = 30% Nordic / 52% UP+N / 10% UP / 5% UP+N+L / 3% Med.

    Denmark = 40% Borreby (UP), 30% Falish (UP+N), 20% Hallstatt Nordik (N), 5% Anglo-Saxon (UP+N), 5% Istocni Baltik (UP+N+L) = 40% UP / 35% UP+N / 20% Nord. / 5% UP+N+L

    Iceland = 60% Tronder (UP+N), 22% Borreby (UP), 15% Brunn (UP), 3% Palaeo-Atlantid (Med.) = 60% UP+N / 37% UP / 3% Med.

    England = 30% Keltic Nordic (derived from pre-Roman Iron Age invaders ), 20% Anglo-Saxon (post-Roman Germanic invaders, most common in the southeast, especially East Anglia), 15% North-Atlantid and 10% Palaeo-Atlantid (blend of Mesolithic Atlanto-Mediterranean invaders with both earlier and later arrivals; most common in the Midlands and northwest), 8% Hallstatt Nordic (of Viking and Norman derivation, although it is said for Normans they spoke Latin and had dark hair), 5% Brunn, 5% Tronder (of Norwegian Viking derivation; most common in the northeast), 3% Borreby and 2% Falish (again of Viking and Norman derivation; associated with the landed gentry; source of the "John Bull" type), 2% Noric (from Bronze-Age invaders, depegmented Dinarics, Dinarics are 2/3 Med + 1/3 UP) = 57% UP+N / 25% Med / 8% N / 2% Dinarik.

    Scotland = 30% Keltic Nordic, 22% Tronder (most common in the NE), 10% North-Atlantid (most common - W), 10% Anglo-Saxon (most common - SE), 10% Palaeo-Atlantid (most common - SW), 5% Brunn, 5% Hallstatt Nordic, 4% Borreby, 4% Noric = 62% UP+N / 20 Med./ 9% UP / 5% N / 4% Dinaric

    Ireland = 40% Brunn (indigenous Paleolithic inhabitants, most common in the west), 30% Keltic Nordic (most common - E ), 9% North-Atlantid, 9% Borreby, 3% Palaeo-Atlantid, 3% Tronder, 2% Noric, 2% Anglo-Saxon, 1% Hallstatt Nordic =49% UP / 35% UP+N / 12% Med / 2% Dinaric / 1% Nordic

    Wales = 35% North-Atlantid, 30% Palaeo-Atlantid, 30% Keltic Nordic, 5% other types = 65% Med. / 30% UP+N / 5% other

    The Netherlands = 50% Keltic Nordic (of Franks), 20% Borreby, 10% Anglo-Saxon (most common in Frisia), 10% Falish, 10% Hallstatt Nordic = 70% UP+N / 20% UP / 10% Nord.

    Belgium = 60% Keltic Nordic (most common in Flanders, derived from the ancient Belgae and Franks), 35% Borreby and 5% Alpine (both most common in Wallonia , Alpine is upper-paleolithic remians or UP) = 60% UP+N / 40% UP

    Luxembourg = 80% Alpine ( UP remains ), 15% Borreby, 5% other types = 95%UP / 5% ?

    Germany = 25% Borreby (most common in the Rhine and Ruhr valleys and the north), 20% Falish (most common - N), 15% Alpine (most common in Baden and Bavaria, UP ), 15% Noric ( depegmented Dinarics, name originates from Roman Province of Noricum in todays Austria ), 6% Keltic Nordic (most common in the old Frankish country in the southwest), 5% Anglo-Saxon (most common - NW), 5% East Baltic, 5% Dinaric, 4% Hallstatt Nordic = 40% UP / 31% UP+N / 20% Dinaric / 5% UP+N+L / 4% Nordik.

    France = 30% Alpine ( UP ), 30% Noric (most common in the north), 20% Mediterranean (most common - S and Corsica ), 15% Dinaric, 3% Borreby (in the NE), 2% Nordic = 45% Dinaric / 33% UP / 20% Med. / 2% Nordic

    Switzerland = 40% Keltic Nordic and 30% Noric (most common in the N, W and center), 15% Dinaric and 15% Alpine (most common - S and E ) = 45% Dinarik / 40% UP+N / 15% UP

    Austria = 35% Noric ( depegmented Dinaric, word Noric s derived from Roman province of Noricum - todays Austria ) , 25% Dinaric, 20% Alpine ( UP ), 15% Keltic Nordic, 5% Hallstatt Nordic = 60% Dinaric / 20% UP / 15% UP+N / 5% Nord..

    Poland = 55% Neo-Danubian ( Baltic or Real Slavs/Slavics, Lagodan or L + N ), 10% Ladogan ( UP - Mongoloid ) , 10% Alpine ( UP)), 10% Dinaric, , 5% Hallstatt Nordic, 5% Noric , 5% East Baltic = 55% (L+N), 15% Dinaric, 10% L(agodan), 10% UP, 5% UP+N+L, 5% Nordic.

    Finland and the Baltic States = 50% East Baltic, 15% Hallstatt Nordic (most common in the Swedish-settled areas of Finland), 30% Neo-Danubian (most common - SE Lithuania and NE Finland), 5% Ladogan ( UP - Mongoloid ) = 50% (UP+N+L), 30% L+N , 15% Nordic, 5% L(agodan)

    Czech Republic and Slovakia = 40% Alpine ( UP ) and 15% Noric (most common in Bohemia), 25% Dinaric (most common in Moravia), 20% Neo-Danubian (most common in Slovakia) = 40% UP / 40% Dinarik / 20% L+N

    Hungary = 35% Neo-Danubian (most common or m.c. - NE), 25% Turanid (of Magyar derivation, semi-mongoloid), 20% Dinaric (m.c. - SW), 15% Alpine (m.c. - S, UP), 2% Nordic ( Germanic invasion impact ), 2% Noric, 1% E.Mediterranean = 35% L+N / 25% T / 22% Dinaric / 15% UP / 2% Nordik / 1% Med.

    Russia, Belorussia and Ukraine = 40% Neo-Danubian (most common in Belorussia and western Ukraine, Baltic Slavs ), 35% Ladogan ( UP - Mongoloid ), 8% Nordic( Germanic invasion impact ), 7% East Mediterranean (most common near the Black Sea coast), 5% Dinaric (m.c. - E. Ukraine), 5% Noric = 40% L+N / 35% L / 12% Dinarik / 8% N / 7% Med. .

    Spain and Portugal = 85% West Mediterranean, 9% South Mediterranean,, 5% Dinaric ( among Basques ), 1% Nordic (most common in the remnants of the Visigoth aristocracy, remains of Germanic invasion ) = 94% Med / 5% Dinaric / 1% Nordic

    Italy = 50% D.M. or Dinaricized Mediterranean (m.c. in the south and Sicily, descendants of Greek colonist when the region was known as "Magna Graecia" or "Bigger Greece" for which is said to have had more Greeks then Greece ), 20% Dinaric (m.c. - N, Venets ), 15% Alpine (m.c. in the northwest, UP ), 10% West Mediterranean (m.c. in Sardinia), , 4% Noric (m.c. - N ), 1% Nordic (remains of Germanic invasion ) = 50% D.M. / 24% Dinarik / 15% UP / 10% Med. / 1% Nordic

    Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, Slovenia and Macedonia = 75% Dinaric ( preslavic Illyrians) , 10% West Mediterranean (most common on the coast), 10% Noric ( depegmented Dinaric ) and 5% Neo-Danubian (most common in the north and Pannonia, Baltic Slav ) = 85% Dinarik / 10% Med. / 5% L+N

    Romania = 35% Dinaric (m.c. in the W ), 25% East Mediterranean (m.c. the coast ), 20% Neo-Danubian (m.c. in the NE, Baltic Slav), 10% Alpine ( UP ), 7% Noric and 3% Nordic (m.c. in the W, German colonists) = 42% Dinarik / 25% Med. / 20% L+N / 10% UP / 3 Nordik

    Albania = 75% Dinaric ( Illyrian ), 10% West Mediterranean (m.c. on the coast), 10% Alpine ( Epirus, Dorians), 5% Noric = 80% Dinarik / 10% UP / 10% Med..

    Bulgaria = 60% East Mediterranean ( mainly hellenistic Thracians ), 15% Alpine ( UP, Celtic impact? ) , 15% Dinaric , 5% Turanid ( NW Bulgaria, remains of semioriental Turkic Bulgars ), 5% Nordish ( Germanic invasion impact ) = 60% Med. / 15% Dinarik / 15% UP / 5% T / 5% N

    Greece = 40% East Mediterranean ( Aegean, present among Minoans, Aheans , 25% Dinaricized Mediterranean ( also present among ancient Hellenes) , 20% Alpine (most common in Epirus , Dorians ), 10% Dinaric ( Dorians were partly Dinarics ), 5% Nordish (partly assimilated remnant, or genetic recombinations from solution; most common in the N, Germanic invasion impact) = 40% Med. / 25% D.M. / 20% UP / 10% Dinarik / 5% N

    Turkey=35% Dinaricized Mediterraneans ( Greek colonists), 20% Mediterraneans ( Aegean coast, greek colonists), 25% Irano-Afghans ( eastern Turkey, Kurds ), 20% Turanids ( original semi-oriental Turkics, inhabits continental parts of central Anatolia one of them being region around Konya ) = 35% D.M. / 25% I.A. / 20% Med. / 20% T.



    Racial Classification within the White Family


    A.
    LARGE-HEADED PALAEOLITHIC SURVIVORS

    (1)
    Brunn: (Cro-Magnon, to some extent) found in solution with Borreby, Nordic, and other elements, mostly in Scandinavia and the British Isles, also in North Africa and Canary Islands. May appear in comparatively pure form among individuals although nowhere as a total population.

    (2) Borreby: Large-headed brachycephals of Ofnet-Afalou type, the unreduced brachycephalic strain in Cro-Magnon; found in solution in peripheral regions of northwestern Europe, and as a major population element in most of northern and central Germany, and in Belgium. Like the Brunn race, with which it is often associated, it occurs also in North Africa and the Canary Islands.




    B. PURE AND MIXED PALAEOLITHIC AND MESOLITHIC SURVIVORS OF MODERATE HEAD SIZE


    (3) Alpine: A reduced and somewhat foetalized survivor of the Upper Palaeolithic population in Late Pleistocene France, highly brachycephalized; seems to represent in a large measure the bearer of the brachycephalic factor in Cro-Magnon. Close approximations to this type appear also in the Balkans and in the highlands of western and central Asia, suggesting that its ancestral prototype was widespread in Late Pleistocene times. In modern races it sometimes appears in a relatively pure form, sometimes as an element in mixed brachycephalic populations of multiple origin. It may have served in both Pleistocene and modern times as a bearer of the tendency toward brachycephalization into various population.

    (4) Ladogan: I propose to give this name to the descendants of the mesocephalic and brachycephalic forest-dwelling population of northern Europe east of the Baltic in Kammkeramik times. This type is a blend of a partly mongoloid brachycephalic element with a mesocephalic form of general Upper Palaeolithic aspect; these elements are seen in crania from Lake Ladoga and Salis Roje. (See Chapter IV, section 13, pp. 125-126.) Corded and/or Danubian elements are inextricably blended here, although the mongoloid and Upper Palaeolithic elements seem at present more important. In its present form this composite type shows two numerous variants:


    (a) Neo-Danubian: Strongly mixed with the old Danubian, and to a lesser extent other elements, to form the common peasant type of eastern Europe, with many local variants.

    (b) East Baltic: Strongly mixed with Corded, Iron Age Nordic, and western Palaeolithic survivors to form the predominant population of much of Finland and the Baltic States.


    (5) Lappish: A stunted, highly brachycephalized, largely brunet relative of the Ladogan, originally living to the east of the Ladogan type area, in the Urals and western Siberia. Has probably assimilated some evolved mongoloid, but owes its partly mongoloid appearance more to the retention of an early intermediate evolutionary condition. In modern times much mixed with Ladogan and Nordic.



    C. PURE AND MIXED UNBRACHYCEPHALIZED MEDITERRANEAN DERIVATIVES


    (6) Mediterraneans: Within this general class, which still retains much of its original racial unity, the following sub-classes may at present be distinguished:


    (a) Mediterranean Proper: Short-statured, dolicho- and mesocephalic form found in Spain, Portugal, the western Mediterranean islands, and to some extent in North Africa, southern Italy, and other Mediterranean borderlands. Its purest present-day racial nucleus is without doubt Arabia. Most of the Cappadocian, isolated in the skeletal material, seems to have been absorbed into the western Mediterranean variety after its early Metal Age migration, while that which remained in Asia Minor became assimilated into the Dinaric and Armenoid. It still appears, however, among individuals in its original form, and is particularly common among Oriental Jews.


    (b) Atlanto-Mediterranean: The tall, straight-nosed Mediterranean, not mesocephalic, as Deniker erroneously stated, but strongly dolichocephalic. Today this race forms the principal element in the population of North Africa, and is strong in Iraq, Palestine, parts of Arabia, and the eastern Balkans; in solution with varying degrees of negroid it is also the principal race in the whole of East Africa. In Europe it is a minority element in the Iberian Peninsula, Italy, and the British Isles.


    (c) Irano-Afghan: The long-faced, high-headed, hook-nosed type, usually of tall stature, which forms the principal element in the population of Iran, Afghanistan, and the Turkoman country, and which is also present in Palestine, parts of Arabia, and North Africa. It is probably related to the old Corded type of the Neolithic and Bronze Age.

    (7) Nordics: The basic Nordic is the Corded-Danubian blend of the Aunjetitz and of the Early Iron Age in central Europe. This type includes some Bell Beaker Dinaric absorbed in early Metal Age times. Although Danubian and Corded types may appear as individuals, they may nowhere be isolated as populations. The most important living Nordic varieties are:

    (a) Keltic Iron Age Type: The Keltic sub-type, mesocephalic and low-vaulted, with a prominent nose. Commonest in the British Isles where in places it forms the principal element in the population. Also a major element in Flanders and the Frankish country in southwestern Germany ( this type is as a rule for the most part mixed with Med. elements-major being Roman elements ).

    (b) Anglo-Saxon Type: The old Germanic Reihengräber type, a heavy-boned, rather high-headed Nordic variety, most prevalent in northern Germany and England.

    (c) Trondelagen Type: A hybrid type of Nordic with Corded and Brunn elements, frequent in the central coastal provinces of Norway, north of the Dovre Mountains; the principal form in Iceland, and among the Frisians, and common in the British Isles. The Anglo-Saxon type lies between it and the true Nordic.

    (d) Osterdal Type: The original Hallstatt Nordic, smaller-headed and finer boned than (b) or (c); occurs in many populations as individuals, typical only in Sweden and in the eastern valleys of Norway.




    D. BRACHYCEPHALIZED MEDITERRANEAN DERIVATIVES, PROBABLY MIXED

    (8) Dinarics: A tall, brachycephalic type of intermediate pigmentation, usually planoccipital, and showing the facial and nasal prominence of Near Eastern peoples. The basic population of the whole Dinaric-Alpine highlands from Switzerland to Epirus, also in the Carpathians and Caucasus, as well as Syria and Asia Minor. Apparently a brachycephalized blend in which Atlanto-Mediterranean and Cappadocian strains are important, with Alpine acting as the brachycephalizing agent in mixture. Borreby and Corded elements, also Nordic, appear to be involved in some regions.


    (9) Armenoids: A similar brachycephalic composite type, with the same head form as the Dinaric, but a larger face and nose. The pigmentation is almost entirely brunet, the pilous development of beard and body abundant, the nose high rooted, convex, and the tip depressed, especially in advanced age. The difference between the Armenoid and the Dinaric is that here it is the Irano-Afghan race which furnishes the Mediterranean element, brachycephalized by Alpine mixture.


    (10) Noric: A blond, planoccipital brachycephal frequently encountered in South Germany and elsewhere in central Europe. This is apparently an Iron Age Nordic brachycephalized by Dinaric mixture and seems in most respects to take the form of a blond Dinaric variant. Both Deniker and Czekanowski have recognized this type, and it is a standard race, under various names, in most Russian studies. The name Noric was gived it by Lebzelter. A brachycephalized Neo-Danubian, common in Jugoslavia, is a parallel or variant form.




    The ten racial types within the white race listed above, with their sub-types, form two of the three main divisions of the white race, in its widest sense, when segregated on the basis of head size. The third division, that of the peoples with small heads, includes the aboriginal population of southern Arabia east of the Yemen, and various groups in Baluchistan, and again in southern India. This third variety is characterized by an abundance of wavy or ringleted hair, and facial features of a Veddoid character which in some instances suggest Australoid affinities. This third division need not, however, concern us here, because it falls outside the major range of the white race. It will be dealt with in some detail in the proper section of the regional study.


    Besides the European races proper, as listed in the preceding paragraphs, and their Veddoid collaterals, there are certain fully evolved non-white races which have influenced the European population by intrusion and blending. These include at least two of the sub-divisions of the mongoloid family - the Buryat-Mongol, to which the Avars in part belonged, and which is today represented on European soil by the Samoyeds; and the Tungusic, the type of the early Huns. To these may be added an apparently stabilized mixed form, resembling a partially mongoloid Dinaric, to which many central Asiatic Turkish tribesmen belong. In addition to these Asiatics, there remains the African Negro, which has had certain influences upon the formation of race in the Mediterranean region, especially in North Africa, and in parts of Arabia. Other non-white stocks, such as the Australoid, Negrito, and Khoi-San (Bushman-Hottentot), have not affected the white group in its homelands in any discernible way.



    Books used for the classification

    32 Deniker, J., The Races of Man, pp. 280-284.

    33 Topinard, P., RDAP, second series, vol. 1, p. 509, 1878, etc.

    34 Haeckel, E. H., Naturliche Schopfungsgeschichte, vol. 7, pp. 626, 647.

    35 Muller, Fr., Allgemeine Ethnographie, pp. 17-19.

    36 Deniker, J., loc. cit.

    37 Deniker, J., BSAP, vol. 12, 1899, p. 320; JRAI, vol. 34, 1904, pp. 181-206; The Races of Man, pp. 285-286.

    38 Based upon Deniker's 1912 classification with some reference to his 1889 scheme as well.

    39 Sergi, G., Specie e varieta umane; L' Uomo; Le Origini Umane; The Mediterranean Race.

    40 Ripley, W. Z., The Races of Europe.

    41 Gobineau, A. de, Essai sur l'inegalite des races humaines.

    42 Verneau, R., BMSA, Paris, ser. 2, vol. 2, 1876, pp. 408-417; Arch des Missions Scientifiques et Litteraires, Paris, 1887,ser. 3, vol. 13, pp. 567-817.

    43 Meyer, H., Die Insel Teneriffe; Uber die Urbewohner der Canarischen Inseln.
    Luschan, F. von, article in Meyer, Teneriffe.

    44 Paudler, F., Die hellfarbigen Rassen. See also his earlier article in Anthropos, vols. 12-13, 1917-18, pp. 641-694.

    45 Kossinna, G., Ursprung und Verbreitung der Germanen, MannusB, #6a, 1928.

    46 Eickstedt, E. von, Rassenkunde und Rassengeschichte der Menschheit.

    47 I am omitting Gunther, despite his great vogue, since his system is a close Germanization of Deniker's, with a few changes.

    48 Nordenstreng, R., Europas Människoraser och Folkslag.
    Lundborg and Linders, Racial Characters of the Swedish Nation, pp. 50-52.
    Hooton, E. A., Up from the Ape, pp. 508-509, 535.

    49 Montandon, G., La Race, Les Races.

    50 Czekanowski, Jan, AAnz, vol. 5, 1928, pp. 335-359; AASF, ser. A, vol. 25, #2, 1925.

    51 See Chapter IV, pp. 113-115.

    52 Czekanowski, J., AFA, vol. 48, 1925, pp. 65-76.

    53 Gunther, H., Rassenkunde der deutscen Volkes.

    54 Luschan, F. von, JRAI, vol. 41, 1911, pp. 221-244.

    55 Pruner Bey, F., MSAP, vol. 2, 1865, pp. 417-432.

    http://www.geocities.com/zakus_1999/Races.html


    "...The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species; indeed - he is a type in regard to morality, but not a type in himself; a copy...the measure of his value lies outside him. ... I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage; I do not account the evil and painful character of existence a reproach to it, but hope rather that it will one day be more evil and painful than hitherto..." (Nietzsche)

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    Re: Racial Composition in European countries and Outline of Human Racial Classification

    Spain and Portugal = 85% West Mediterranean, 9% South Mediterranean,, 5% Dinaric ( among Basques ), 1% Nordic (most common in the remnants of the Visigoth aristocracy, remains of Germanic invasion ) = 94% Med / 5% Dinaric / 1% Nordic


    What´s the diference between west-mediterranean and south mediterranean

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    Re: Racial Composition in European countries and Outline of Human Racial Classification

    Quote Originally Posted by joseanton

    What´s the diference between west-mediterranean and south mediterranean
    Racially or Geographically?--I'm not sure what you are asking.

    If Racially, different sub-racial schemas utilize slightly varying nomencalature as well as more or fewer phenotypic divisions; but all, for the most, agree with one another.

    In short, there is enough phenotypical variation between a Spaniard and an individual from the South of France to make a rational delineation. Yet all might just be called "Meds" or "Medish" ergo the 94% Med. generality.
    "...The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species; indeed - he is a type in regard to morality, but not a type in himself; a copy...the measure of his value lies outside him. ... I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage; I do not account the evil and painful character of existence a reproach to it, but hope rather that it will one day be more evil and painful than hitherto..." (Nietzsche)

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    Re: Racial Composition in European countries and Outline of Human Racial Classification

    Suut, the 'estimated racial composition of Europe' given in your post is a product of the very fertile imagination of someone going by the name of McCulloch. Here is a link:

    http://www.racialcompact.com/nordishrace.html

    It is purely a product of fantasy and has no basis in reality, and anyone giving credence to McCulloch's imaginations has clearly lost touch with reality. I tried to express this in a previous post which was strangely deleted by one of the admins so I have to repost.

    Admin, the next time you delete one of my posts could you please have the common courtesy of letting me know what you find offensive? Thanks

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    Re: Racial Composition in European countries and Outline of Human Racial Classification

    Quote Originally Posted by WestPrussian
    Suut, the 'estimated racial composition of Europe' given in your post is a product of the very fertile imagination of someone going by the name of McCulloch. Here is a link:

    http://www.racialcompact.com/nordishrace.html

    It is purely a product of fantasy and has no basis in reality, and anyone giving credence to McCulloch's imaginations has clearly lost touch with reality. I tried to express this in a previous post which was strangely deleted by one of the admins so I have to repost.

    Admin, the next time you delete one of my posts could you please have the common courtesy of letting me know what you find offensive? Thanks
    Thank you for a more cordial approach this time 'round (Many of these are good reads):

    Books used for the classification

    32 Deniker, J., The Races of Man, pp. 280-284.

    33 Topinard, P., RDAP, second series, vol. 1, p. 509, 1878, etc.

    34 Haeckel, E. H., Naturliche Schopfungsgeschichte, vol. 7, pp. 626, 647.

    35 Muller, Fr., Allgemeine Ethnographie, pp. 17-19.

    36 Deniker, J., loc. cit.

    37 Deniker, J., BSAP, vol. 12, 1899, p. 320; JRAI, vol. 34, 1904, pp. 181-206; The Races of Man, pp. 285-286.

    38 Based upon Deniker's 1912 classification with some reference to his 1889 scheme as well.

    39 Sergi, G., Specie e varieta umane; L' Uomo; Le Origini Umane; The Mediterranean Race.

    40 Ripley, W. Z., The Races of Europe.

    41 Gobineau, A. de, Essai sur l'inegalite des races humaines.

    42 Verneau, R., BMSA, Paris, ser. 2, vol. 2, 1876, pp. 408-417; Arch des Missions Scientifiques et Litteraires, Paris, 1887,ser. 3, vol. 13, pp. 567-817.

    43 Meyer, H., Die Insel Teneriffe; Uber die Urbewohner der Canarischen Inseln.
    Luschan, F. von, article in Meyer, Teneriffe.

    44 Paudler, F., Die hellfarbigen Rassen. See also his earlier article in Anthropos, vols. 12-13, 1917-18, pp. 641-694.

    45 Kossinna, G., Ursprung und Verbreitung der Germanen, MannusB, #6a, 1928.

    46 Eickstedt, E. von, Rassenkunde und Rassengeschichte der Menschheit.

    47 I am omitting Gunther, despite his great vogue, since his system is a close Germanization of Deniker's, with a few changes.

    48 Nordenstreng, R., Europas Människoraser och Folkslag.
    Lundborg and Linders, Racial Characters of the Swedish Nation, pp. 50-52.
    Hooton, E. A., Up from the Ape, pp. 508-509, 535.

    49 Montandon, G., La Race, Les Races.

    50 Czekanowski, Jan, AAnz, vol. 5, 1928, pp. 335-359; AASF, ser. A, vol. 25, #2, 1925.

    51 See Chapter IV, pp. 113-115.

    52 Czekanowski, J., AFA, vol. 48, 1925, pp. 65-76.

    53 Gunther, H., Rassenkunde der deutscen Volkes.

    54 Luschan, F. von, JRAI, vol. 41, 1911, pp. 221-244.

    55 Pruner Bey, F., MSAP, vol. 2, 1865, pp. 417-432.

    "...The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species; indeed - he is a type in regard to morality, but not a type in himself; a copy...the measure of his value lies outside him. ... I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage; I do not account the evil and painful character of existence a reproach to it, but hope rather that it will one day be more evil and painful than hitherto..." (Nietzsche)

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    Re: Racial Composition in European countries and Outline of Human Racial Classification

    Oh, did you really think I was trying to insult you? Obviously, what I said wasn't directed at you personally ... how could it be? You never expressed a personal opinion but just posted something which you felt was worth discussing so I gave you an honest assessment and I'm sorry you took it the wrong way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Suut
    Many of these are good reads
    So you actually read the source material? Well that certainly settles it, doesn't it? Gobineau, Muller, Haeckel, Verneau, Paudler, Kossinna, Pruner Bey, Luschan etc etc etc ?????????? Most of it published before 1900 (far far FAR back in a fast moving field) and none if it IN THE LEAST related to an objective asessment of the racial composition in Europe as implied ... what a fraud!!! That's what really upsets me about McCulloch ... all this pretense at objectivity and honesty when it's all just a smokescreen to fool the innocent. After all, there is NO RELATION between McCulloch's sources and the information he claims they convey. To my mind intellectual dishonesty is one of the most disgusting things on earth and McCulloch epitomizes it in the field of physical anthropology.

    Since you have apparently read the source material and consequently know that there is no way to deduce McCulloch's bizarre conclusions as to the racial composition of Europe from it I am sure you agree?
    Last edited by WestPrussian; Sunday, July 16th, 2006 at 03:11 AM.

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    Re: Racial Composition in European countries and Outline of Human Racial Classification

    Quote Originally Posted by WestPrussian

    So you actually read the source material? Well that certainly settles it, doesn't it? Gobineau, Muller, Haeckel, Verneau, Paudler, Kossinna, Pruner Bey, Luschan etc etc etc ?????????? Most of it published before 1900 and none if it IN THE LEAST related to an objective asessment of the racial composition in Europe as implied ...

    You raise an interesting and implicating point here: a Racial 'census' is long over due for Europa; and one is often forced into the rigour of what might be antiquated data; however, antiquation in and of itself does not negate the rigour of the data per se. In addition, mtDNA and Halotyping ought to be merged with any such Racial census.

    To my mind intellectual dishonesty is one of the most disgusting things on earth and McCulloch epitomizes it in the field of physical anthropology.

    Clearly you have a beef with McCulloch--that much is clear! It would help though to demonstrate how you have a right to such a vitriolic reaction to his particular brand of Racial schemata; rather than leaving your reader the right to assume that you, yourself, may be engaging in intellectual obscurantism: what is your acumen?

    Since you have apparently read the source material and consequently know that there is no way to deduce McCulloch's bizarre conclusions as to the racial composition of Europe from it I am sure you agree?
    There is really the potential for a valuable discussion in all this; however, as related to the primary texts cited, none are by McCulloch. Ergo, if you wish to import a more convincing rhetoric please do. In short, I would appreciate a rudimentary explanation as to how you are not proping-up a textbook straw-man. In addition, your own exegis on the Racial composition of Europe and how you derive it would be necessary to determine the viability of said exegis.

    Regards
    "...The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species; indeed - he is a type in regard to morality, but not a type in himself; a copy...the measure of his value lies outside him. ... I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage; I do not account the evil and painful character of existence a reproach to it, but hope rather that it will one day be more evil and painful than hitherto..." (Nietzsche)

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    Re: Racial Composition in European countries and Outline of Human Racial Classification

    This Zecanin fellow has ripped material off McCulloch and Coon without distinguishing between them or mentioning either of them as sources? Brilliant. I presume the list of "Books used for the classification" is McCulloch's, thrown in just to give the impression that the "author" Zecanin is responsible for the actual research ...

    Btw, I had personal communication with McCulloch back in 1999. Afaicr, he based his figures both on the traditional literature and on his own experiences from travels, and subsequent estimations. The figures are probably adequate estimations, but bear in mind that they are mostly not derived from actual statistics, but rather the accumulated, subjective impressions of one individual.

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    Re: Racial Composition in European countries and Outline of Human Racial Classification

    Quote Originally Posted by vingul
    This Zecanin fellow has ripped material off McCulloch and Coon without distinguishing between them or mentioning either of them as sources? Brilliant. I presume the list of "Books used for the classification" is McCulloch's, thrown in just to give the impression that the "author" Zecanin is responsible for the actual research ...

    Btw, I had personal communication with McCulloch back in 1999. Afaicr, he based his figures both on the traditional literature and on his own experiences from travels, and subsequent estimations. The figures are probably adequate estimations, but bear in mind that they are mostly not derived from actual statistics, but rather the accumulated, subjective impressions of one individual.
    I think it was rather a 'follow-up' verification that was performed, which is the natural progressus of Science--be it objective or subjective i.e. verification and/or falsification by one or another individual/group either supports or refuts prior research.

    His percentages, and even typology, differ (a bit) from McCulloch's. But overall, as you imply, the estimations lend support to prior research.

    Not so incidentally: the entirety of phenotypical racial schemas, en toto, rest upon subjective impressions i.e. all racial classification systems of this ilk are self-consistent. But, so are Mathematics and Logic.
    "...The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species; indeed - he is a type in regard to morality, but not a type in himself; a copy...the measure of his value lies outside him. ... I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage; I do not account the evil and painful character of existence a reproach to it, but hope rather that it will one day be more evil and painful than hitherto..." (Nietzsche)

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    Re: Racial Composition in European countries and Outline of Human Racial Classification

    I don't really know how accurate these figures are, but my opinion is closer to WestPrussian one.

    McCulloch, describes Faelid as a Nordid + CM mix, when it is really the purest CM form, samething for Paleo-Atlantid, which McCulloch describes as Mediterranid and it's really closer to CM, it's also quite weird his Keltic-Nordic which he describes as Nordid + CM, or North-Atlantid described as pure Mediterranid. He says Basques are Dinarid, when they really are a Dinarised Atlantomediterranid type, and uses almost obsolete terms such as Neo-Danubian, and saying Hungary is 25% Turanid is enormously exaggerating IMO.

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