View Poll Results: What is beauty?

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  • Subjective

    17 25.00%
  • Objective

    22 32.35%
  • Both/neither subjective and/nor objective

    27 39.71%
  • No idea

    2 2.94%
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Thread: Is Beauty Really Subjective?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griffon View Post
    I didn't mean that. Everyone likes the "type of painting" with whom he can spread his OWN genes most successfully.
    Uhm, yeah I'm not sure if some people tried to breed with paintings already but if so they were unsuccessful for sure.
    That's some kind of nonsense die hard darwinism. Evolution is a funny process and it sometimes creates totally meaningless traits in individuals if they are caused by the same gene combination as something very favorable. The perception of art and aesthetical is something like that and it has nothing
    to do with producing offspring. Just like reading a novel, watching a movie, eating unhealthy but delicious foods and so on.

    Even if it were just for progeny your statement would still be wrong because favourable traits very from individual to individual making it entirely subject centered hence subjective.
    Ceterum censeo Iudaeam esse delendam.

  2. #12
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    Beauty is objective.



    Prototypical faces, such as these composites, elicit higher ratings of attractiveness because they are easier for the brain to process, researchers say. (Photos courtesy of Mike Mike)

    Prototypical faces, such as these composites, elicit higher ratings of attractiveness because they are easier for the brain to process, researchers say. (Photos courtesy of Mike Mike)
    10/23/2006
    The Beauty Math: Average Is Attractive

    By Liz Savage

    Beauty may not actually be in the eye of the beholder. While long considered a slave to cultural whims, beauty may be less arbitrary than people thought. Assessments of facial attractiveness do not vary significantly across cultures, and even adults and infants find the same faces attractive. Clearly something beyond just culture is driving our perceptions of beauty.

    There are a number of hypotheses on why we find certain faces attractive. A new study published last month in the journal Psychological Science, offered a new explanation why average faces (mathematically average, not average-looking) are judged more attractive. The researchers, Piotr Winkielman of the University of California, San Diego and Jamin Halberstadt of University of Otago in New Zealand, said that we prefer average faces because they are closer to our mental prototype of a face. In other words, average faces are more "face-like."

    Winkielman and Halberstadt believe that prototypes are rated more attractive because they are easier for the brain to process. When we are exposed to a new face, for example, our brain takes notice and stores the face away for later use. As we encounter more faces, the brain creates a "face" category and tries to find commonalities or similar patterns between the faces in the category. These patterns become the basis of the face prototype.

    The closer a face is to the prototype, the faster it is processed. Winkielman believes this faster processing is the reason more prototypical items, including faces, receive a more positive assessment. The brain gives itself a pat on the back for quickly detecting a pattern among the faces. "It's good to make order out of chaos. The brain rewards itself for finding something meaningful," he said.

    Preferences for prototypes apply not only to faces. Prototypes of other categories—fish, shoes, trees, patterns of dots—are rated as more attractive than outliers. Halberstadt says this indicates that a preference for average faces is not an adaptive trait, as previous research has suggested.

    Evolutionary biologists have proposed that a preference for average faces has evolved because it is a good indicator of the quality of a potential mate. For example, some propose that people with more average faces have a more diverse gene pool that would enable them to more readily fight off disease. But so far evidence that attractive people are healthier remains controversial.

    If Winkielman and Halberstadt are correct, then beauty depends on what kind of faces you are exposed to. "In places like London or New York, your category is wider," because you are exposed to a wider variety of people, Winkielman said. "But in places with separation of ethnicities, a multiracial face might look weird."

    Winkielman pointed out that people often say that they find exotic faces more attractive, though the data suggests the people prefer average faces. "Prototypes are not exciting. They are extraordinary because they are so well balanced, but they are not intriguing," he said.


    http://www.bu.edu/phpbin/news-cms/ne...2&template=226


    Die Sonne scheint noch.

  3. #13
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    Beauty is symmetry. I don't like it when people are called 'ugly'. What genes someone receives is totally down to chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janus View Post
    Uhm, yeah I'm not sure if some people tried to breed with paintings already but if so they were unsuccessful for sure.
    That's some kind of nonsense die hard darwinism. Evolution is a funny process and it sometimes creates totally meaningless traits in individuals if they are caused by the same gene combination as something very favorable. The perception of art and aesthetical is something like that and it has nothing
    to do with producing offspring. Just like reading a novel, watching a movie, eating unhealthy but delicious foods and so on.

    Even if it were just for progeny your statement would still be wrong because favourable traits very from individual to individual making it entirely subject centered hence subjective.
    It's just a quote of what you said since it was like that you were comparing "type of painting" to mate/partner. Maybe my bad English again. But you didn't understand this thread, because this thread isn't really about art anyway, you can see that from the very first post Fallen Angel posted. If you still can't grasp that then I would have nothing to say. eyes:

    Regarding your last paragraph, beauty *is* objective, it has an inherent genetic value to each person, so someone may value more while another values less, but in the end, its value does not change by opinions. Here is just an example, disregarding any other traits, a short girl values less to a short guy than to a tall guy.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griffon View Post
    It's just a quote of what you said since it was like that you were comparing "type of painting" to mate/partner. Maybe my bad English again. But you didn't understand this thread, because this thread isn't really about art anyway, you can see that from the very first post Fallen Angel posted. If you still can't grasp that then I would have nothing to say. eyes:

    Regarding your last paragraph, beauty *is* objective, it has an inherent genetic value to each person, so someone may value more while another values less, but in the end, its value does not change by opinions. Here is just an example, disregarding any other traits, a short girl values less to a short guy than to a tall guy.
    She was showing people as example but never explicitely reduced it to sexual attractivity. Besides that, people can also be beautiful without actually be sexually attractive.

    You don't seem to understand neither the concept of beauty nor the concept of evolution nor the concept of objectivity subjectivity. Objectivity would mean that there was a fixed beauty ideal ALL people find beautiful but this is simply far from being true.
    Ceterum censeo Iudaeam esse delendam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Griffon View Post
    It's in a manner like companies assess risks, different asscessors, given the same object (for example, how risky a merger is), may give out different opinions about how risky it is, but this does not mean the risk itself is subjective. It does not change by any person's opinion.
    that is actually not true. it has been empirically shown that your perception of probability of failure influences how well you do. students who were "phyched out" before a test consistently did worse than those that were told they would do well (in a study the link to which i have unfortunately misplaced)...this experiment has been recreated in varying situations, so one would assume that its findings extend to risk in business as well...kind of like the cat - measuring risk changes it

    Quote Originally Posted by DriftWood View Post
    It's genetic if you ask me, we are each born with a genetic template that tells us what a healthy viable, human should look like. The most beautiful humans are the ones that seem most human like.
    gosh, you give such authoritative answers you must be a real genetics specialist!
    do share your wisdom and intimate knowledge of what our DNA tells us...personally, i have yet to have a decent conversation with DNA or meet someone (other than youself) who's had one...you are unique - share your gift with the world...

    or at least give some reasons for what you are "sharing" right now. is there some basis to this "objective" claim of yours or is this just the way this world would be if it were up to you?

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    I dont find anyone here beautiful

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    Quote Originally Posted by a.squiggles View Post
    that is actually not true. it has been empirically shown that your perception of probability of failure influences how well you do. students who were "phyched out" before a test consistently did worse than those that were told they would do well (in a study the link to which i have unfortunately misplaced)...this experiment has been recreated in varying situations, so one would assume that its findings extend to risk in business as well...kind of like the cat - measuring risk changes it



    gosh, you give such authoritative answers you must be a real genetics specialist!
    do share your wisdom and intimate knowledge of what our DNA tells us...personally, i have yet to have a decent conversation with DNA or meet someone (other than youself) who's had one...you are unique - share your gift with the world...

    or at least give some reasons for what you are "sharing" right now. is there some basis to this "objective" claim of yours or is this just the way this world would be if it were up to you?
    Why are you so upset? Jeez it was just an opinion. Why are you always so hostile anyways? That strikes me as strange. Most girls are I know are happy sociable people.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DriftWood View Post
    Why are you so upset? Jeez it was just an opinion. Why are you always so hostile anyways? That strikes me as strange. Most girls are I know are happy and if not middle mannered are at least not constantly at peoples throats.
    how am i *always* hostile? :
    i am only "hostile" (i.e. try to bring the percieved error to the author's attention so they can offer a clarification or correct me) when i read things i consider untrue/illogical/unfounded. and even then, i generally comment on the point made as opposed to being hostile to those who made it...i can see how it may look different to you, as you're a special case because unfounded opinions seem to be somewhat of a specialty of yours.

    AND you can't have an "opinon" on the function of DNA because it's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of scientific investigation...

    but in an effort to preserve your cutout world: i love ponies and unicorns and flowers and puppies and all i want is world peace and cotton candy

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    Quote Originally Posted by a.squiggles View Post
    how am i *always* hostile? :
    i am only "hostile" (i.e. try to bring the percieved error to the author's attention so they can offer a clarification or correct me) when i read things i consider untrue/illogical/unfounded. and even then, i generally comment on the point made as opposed to being hostile to those who made it...i can see how it may look different to you, as you're a special case because unfounded opinions seem to be somewhat of a specialty of yours.

    AND you can't have an "opinon" on the function of DNA because it's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of scientific investigation...

    but in an effort to preserve your cutout world: i love ponies and unicorns and flowers and puppies and all i want is world peace and cotton candy
    I concede I am guilty of many "unfounded opinions", but can you tell me what a founded opinion is? And please don't say yours.:o

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