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Thread: Greater Germanic Reich

  1. #31
    Senior Member Todesritter's Avatar
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    According to most scholarly studies the general consensus of the possibilities for how the Third Reich would have conducted diplomatic and territorial administration range from extremely modest to radical. On the modest end, Hitler simply wanting Danzig & the Polish corridor back to Germany + some additional territorial annexation as a bonus (as with Sudetenland aims turning into Sudetenland + Bohemia in practice), but he miscalculated France & Britain seriously being willing to declare and maintain a war stance even after Poland was knocked out in less than a month. On the more radical end, some point to the idea of all linguistically, or historically Germanic areas + all bordering areas with Nordic racial but non-Germanic populations becoming part of, or confederated with the Third Reich (this would only have excluded England).

    So Iceland in the West, and the Ural Mountains in the East + Nordkap in the North to the North border of Tuscany would roughly bracket the more grandiose interpretation that historians estimate as eventual goals of Third Reich expansionist policy. (there is a lot of Nordic-seeming features even down in northern Italy for example, which at one point was part of the Ostrogothic kingdom, and even today, regions such as Lombardy are named for invading Germanic tribes who repopulated the area after Roman times.) So I can see this interpretation of high level intent of the Third Reich’s leaders as being possible. Himmler even specifically spoke to the racial policy of not only increasing reproduction among Germany’s best human stock, but also forcibly adopting Aryan Phenotype children in occupied areas, which were otherwise slated to be entirely cleansed, and raising them along with the native German children to be the new German youth.

    There is even evidence of wanting to turn the North Atlantic into a ‘German Sea’, or at least a Nordic exclusive franchise with Germany severing as ‘chairman of the board’ so to speak. Some more questionable academics even claim documents and speeches hint that the eastern United States was planned to be invaded/liberated from the corrupt New York dominated democracy. --> However, this stuff seems pretty far fetched IMHO, but I can see why some might conclude this was a possible aim.

    Unfortunately, we cannot ask the High Command or the Führer what was really intended, nor can we visit an alternate universe where the Luftwaffe stuck to the strategy of pummeling airbases, radar, and other RAF infrastructure in 1940 until Britain ousted Churchill and negotiated (historians say Churchill was about a week from conceding defeat during the Battle of Britain, 1940, as Churchill was seemingly too harsh with his Total War stance until bombs struck London, and the Luftwaffe switched tactics saving Churchill’s political bacon), or won in the east in 1941 by going straight to Moscow and encircling it with Stalin inside. We don’t have the capacity to either ask the source, or to look through a looking glass to this alternate reality, so it is all pretty much conjecture with varying degrees of substantiating evidence.

    /very nice & interesting map though, thanks for posting.
    // … am a historical map addict. :icon12:

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susisaari
    Can anybody borrow that atlas from the library?

    If not, can you write to IfZ and ask them to mail you the explanations for the map?
    Oh, I forgot to answer here. I'm in a different town now. Probably also here somewhere libraries have got that atlas, however I don't have a scanner.

    Hitler himself was Alpine, but he apparently still believed Nordics were superior to Alpines, even though he said somewhere Alpines were more civilised than Nordics because they had had more contacts with ancient Rome and renaissance Italy.
    I never heard of such a quote. There are generally remarks of him of the Greco-Roman orbis having been in antiquity more civilized than northern Europe, and in Germany of the country's half west of the Elbe being culture-denser than that east of Elbe--but he didn't put up that as an Alpine-Nordic polarity. The only direct remark about Alpines of him that comes to my mind is a remark in the table-talks, where he speaks about probable psycho-spiritual differences between Nordic and Alpine judges--the first one having a more foresighting view for the necessities of the whole community, while the latter ones were more the philister type--and thus their judgements.

    I also doubt that Hitler was an Alpine. Alpine maybe as one component of his racial makeup, but not even as the major one. He is hardly that what is described in most textbooks as standard Alpine.

    Man ſei Held oder Heiliger. In der Mitte liegt nicht die Weisheit, ſondern die Alltäglichkeit.

    SPENGLER

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristallnacht
    in Mein Kampf Hitler says that Swiss People could not be part in the Germanic settlement of eastern Europe/Russia. I think it is because they are to mixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arno
    To mixed ? Where is it written in MK ? I've never seen it. Citation, please
    This is not a bad mixture - french and italian influences.
    Well "mixed" would be a way of putting it considering there is no single Swiss group and Swiss could mean any of the four main ethnic groups in Switzerland, but the system there ensures that each has its own, separate identity.

    Though, when I think Switzerland, I think neutrality along other things. Maybe that could also be a factor? I know some Swiss-Germans don't feel they have special ties to Germany or Germans in general, which is quite saddening IMO.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Gustavus Magnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeternitas
    I know some Swiss-Germans don't feel they have special ties to Germany or Germans in general, which is quite saddening IMO.
    It is, I don't know what they want to achieve by living on the "remote island" they are trying to create.
    Leave behind the weak, we must take the strong in hand:
    Together are the wicked violent forces in command

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gustavus Magnus
    It is, I don't know what they want to achieve by living on the "remote island" they are trying to create.
    Kirchturmpatriotismus (church tower patriotism). Switzerland isn't even the worst in this respect. Don't forget that there is a "nation" of Luxemburg--and one of Liechtenstein.
    Man ſei Held oder Heiliger. In der Mitte liegt nicht die Weisheit, ſondern die Alltäglichkeit.

    SPENGLER

  6. #36
    Senior Member ChrisDownUnder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susisaari
    Also, why hasn't Eastern Karelia and the Kola Peninsula been annexed to Finland on the map? Finland has 1939 borders on the map, but I think that if Germany had won the war, the border of Finland would have been drawn from Lake Ladoga along the river Svir into Lake Onega and from there into the White Sea.
    I scanned this map from the front of Robert Harris' book "Fatherland" (a movie was made based on the book with the same title, starring Rutger Hauer). I coloured in the 'Greater Finland' that would have existed had Germany won the war.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rassenhass
    I scanned this map from the front of Robert Harris' book "Fatherland" (a movie was made based on the book with the same title, starring Rutger Hauer). I coloured in the 'Greater Finland' that would have existed had Germany won the war.
    That's very good! Can I put this map in my signature space?

    Anyway, I've seen the movie, and I've read the book, but I wasn't really impressed. The story was based on the idea that the final solution to the Jewish question had remained a secret for twenty years.

    BTW, there is a rather extensive Finnish roleplaying game scenario named Valtakunta (Reich) that is based on that book/movie.
    Neither assimilation nor integration will solve the problems. The only thing that would work from my point of view would be separation. And this separation should be done on a global level, not on a communal level. The western countries here, the islamic countries there. And a very tall border between the two worlds please.

    -- Valkyrie

  8. #38
    Senior Member fenriSS_'s Avatar
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    what about giving Norway back iceland and greenland 1:. Perhabs some of great brittain to

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenriSS_
    what about giving Norway back iceland
    Hahaha let's see what Lundi and Nattfari have to say about this.

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    Another nice map of New Europe:


    This is from the roleplaying scenario I mentioned earlier.
    Neither assimilation nor integration will solve the problems. The only thing that would work from my point of view would be separation. And this separation should be done on a global level, not on a communal level. The western countries here, the islamic countries there. And a very tall border between the two worlds please.

    -- Valkyrie

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