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Thread: King Arthur: Fact or Fiction?

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    King Arthur: Fact or Fiction?

    whats your thoughts on Englands myth of the great British hero King Arthur that drove the Saxon off its shores, fact or fiction?

    but if he did live then he failed his mission the Romo-Celts were still driven to Wales and Scotland and the Saxon took over of the better part of England
    In order to build Odinism into a valid and inspiring religious expression we must overcome this tendency to trivialise divinity. The gods are not Vikings…they are spiritual beings, potent forces of numinous power"
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    Definitely true. From the SouthWest, but active up and down Ynys Gadarn 'the Island of the Mighty'. When considering his ultimate appraisal, bear in mind that he was fighting three foes. The Picts and the Irish were ultimately held at bay, kept only to the parts of Britain beyond the Wall. The Irish in the west had got as far as Staffordshire, as their ogham inscriptions show, but he pushed them to the far tip of the Lleyn Peninsula and Dyfed. Cunedda later finished them off, but that wouldn't have been possible without Arthur's deeds.

    You may have heard of the Kingdom of Rheged, that the Britons founded in the Northwest. It is spelt Recet in the earliest known versions, and yet Welsh scholars are unable to penetrate the meaning. One suggestion is that this is in fact a Latin term, and a memory of the Provincia Recepta, the Recovered Province, that Arthur won back in his various battles in the area on the river Douglas.

    As for the Saxons, they were stalled for a generation, between the Battle of Mons Badonicus in 505ish, and the Battles of Dyrham and Bidecanford. This allowed the Britons a bit of a breather, and with the initial momentum spent, the Angles and Saxons never took the entire island from coast to coast, for the Welsh are still there.

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    One thing has always been interesting to me: the English sort of worship Arthur`s legend, despite of the fact that he was the one to fight against their ancestors, Saxons.
    And as far as the question of historical facts is concerned, I also strongly believe in Arthur`s existence.

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    i think of him as a Romano-British leader that is all no great Magic sword warrior
    In order to build Odinism into a valid and inspiring religious expression we must overcome this tendency to trivialise divinity. The gods are not Vikings…they are spiritual beings, potent forces of numinous power"
    (Odinic Rite)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herkus View Post
    One thing has always been interesting to me: the English sort of worship Arthur`s legend, despite of the fact that he was the one to fight against their ancestors, Saxons.
    And as far as the question of historical facts is concerned, I also strongly believe in Arthur`s existence.
    I believe that shows the potency of Meme's.
    Arthur is a perfect example of handed down, cultural information.
    Whether the English are of Saxon or Celtic blood(and i firmly believe it to be of a considerable mix to the favour of the Celts),the legend still appeals to both sides.

    Robin Hood is a derived Celtic,pagan theme,yet the legend is still very much in the imagination of the English.

    In my opinion,Arthur was real in the minds of my ancestors.
    "The only way to get smarter is to play a smarter opponent."

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    Originally Posted by Herkus
    One thing has always been interesting to me: the English sort of worship Arthur`s legend, despite of the fact that he was the one to fight against their ancestors, Saxons.
    Whilst BeornWulfWer raises valid points on the Celtic contribution to English culture and blood, and I myself have even argued for more research on it, I don't really connect much to Arthur. He's a Welshman as far as I am concerned, I prefer to look to what is now Daneland and the old home lands of the English, Offa, Sceaf and Beowulf I see as my ancestral tales, not Arthur.

    And as far as the question of historical facts is concerned, I also strongly believe in Arthur`s existence.
    I think that there was someone or several warlords perhaps that became morphed into one legend. Romano-British resistance was a lot stronger than Gildas or Bede would indicate.
    Wita sceal geþyldig, ne sceal no to hatheort ne to hrædwyrde, ne to wac wiga ne to wanhydig, ne to forht ne to fægen, ne to feohgifre ne næfre gielpes to georn, ær he geare cunne. Beorn sceal gebidan, þonne he beot spriceð, oþþæt collenferð cunne gearwe hwider hreþra gehygd hweorfan wille.

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    I suppose talking about "the English" isn't entirely accurate, maybe being in Somerset makes one feel more Cetic, but for people closer to the Germanic areas it's a little different. In East Sussex where I live, there's no "celticness" at all, having been Anglo Saxon and then under the Danelaw until the 11th century. I live less than ten miles from where king Harold made his last stand so around here we don't need any stories about fictional kings and battles

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    Real or not, some of the most pleasurable times I've had were reading the Arthurian tales by Bernard Cornwell and the series by Jack Whyte. Almost as good are the series by Stephen Lawhead.

    Most legends are born form a kernel of truth. I have read reports that there are historical records of the name Arthur being the most common name in Brittain in the 6th century.

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    Originally Posted by rivalin
    I live less than ten miles from where king Harold made his last stand so around here we don't need any stories about fictional kings and battles
    There is also the point to remember that Arthurian legend, as we understand it, is largely post-Norman propaganda to justify their subjugation of the English people. Arthur, of course, defeated the English and the Normans claimed the right to rule “Britain” from Arthur. Breton involvement in the Norman army was also ideological to some extent. Just as the English never forgot their origins in Denmark and Germany the Bretons never forgot that their ancestors had been driven out by the English settlements.

    In both his Welsh and Norman guises Arthur is bad news for those of English blood.
    Wita sceal geþyldig, ne sceal no to hatheort ne to hrædwyrde, ne to wac wiga ne to wanhydig, ne to forht ne to fægen, ne to feohgifre ne næfre gielpes to georn, ær he geare cunne. Beorn sceal gebidan, þonne he beot spriceð, oþþæt collenferð cunne gearwe hwider hreþra gehygd hweorfan wille.

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    Quote Originally Posted by æþeling View Post
    Whilst BeornWulfWer raises valid points on the Celtic contribution to English culture and blood, and I myself have even argued for more research on it, I don't really connect much to Arthur. He's a Welshman as far as I am concerned, I prefer to look to what is now Daneland and the old home lands of the English, Offa, Sceaf and Beowulf I see as my ancestral tales, not Arthur.

    I think you are more than wise to wait for a more thorough research into the matter,but i must admit that the evidence does point to "a divide" in England's genetic stock.

    King Arthur,to me,is a Briton.
    I was always brought up on King Arthur books and tales and have had a weak spot for anything to do with him since i was knee high.
    I suppose the likes of Beowulf,etc..have had their effect on me,but then,so has Horatius Cocles and the Illiad.



    Quote Originally Posted by rivalin View Post
    I suppose talking about "the English" isn't entirely accurate, maybe being in Somerset makes one feel more Cetic, but for people closer to the Germanic areas it's a little different. In East Sussex where I live, there's no "celticness" at all, having been Anglo Saxon and then under the Danelaw until the 11th century. I live less than ten miles from where king Harold made his last stand so around here we don't need any stories about fictional kings and battles

    I suppose you are onto something there,Rivalin.
    We,in Somerset,have Glastonbury Tor and Wales just within our reach and many legends and local tales that have 'seeped' into the Somerset character which makes us believe we are 'Celticy' in some way or another.
    But,we also celebrate our Germanic heritage with just as much pride.
    After all,did Alfred the Great not reside his forces within Somersets borders and take the fight to the Vikings?
    "The only way to get smarter is to play a smarter opponent."

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