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Thread: Countries with a Germanic Influence?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterThaGreat View Post
    Northern France and Tyrol are obviosly influenced by Germanic people and deserve a notion
    It may sound enough strange that I (as an 'Italian' for administrative matters) should point to that, but if northern France may be influenced by Germanic culture, Tyrol is outright Germanic - no less than Carinthia or Styria: in fact, only its southern half has been recently controlled by Italy, while the rest has always been an integral part of Austria.

    I don't know whether you like ski competitions, but I wonder how Romance (even better, how 'Italian') you would consider people such as Isolde Kostner, Patrick Holzer, Peter Runggaldier, Gustav Thöni, Karen Putzer. Or a piece of wop like our famed mountaineer and explorer, Reinhold Messner.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterThaGreat View Post
    You may disagree as much as you like, so far when you haven't provided any information with historical and scientifical value in contradiction to mine, I beg you to shut your mouth!
    Your arguments have no value since thy contain additions such as shut your mouth or calling your other idiots, and that is not a very civilized, let alone Germanic behaviour from you.
    Is that too much to ask?eyes: Anyway, do not get confused, there's no way I'd think you are Germanic but the country definitely is.
    Finnish culture is and has been incredibly strong and viable, since it has survived through slaughtering the original Finnish nobility and attempts to destroy the Finnish language and culture along with the people. By the way, such measures lead to the destruction of the Swedish empire eventually...
    BTW I though messages without any serious content are not allowed in this forum and particularly not in this sub-forum.
    If you have severe difficulties to understand sarcasm, then it's not a big surprize that you didn't grasp the informative value of my previous post.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post


    6) Finland was part of the Swedish "Empire", not nation, "Empire". You know the concept of an Empire, Peter? You settle in a FOREIGN land to exploit people and resources, and sometime to assimilate the native folks. Sadly for you, but happily for any rational man, Sweden failed to kill the rooted Finnish culture.
    I snipped all the ad hominems and other irrelevant stuff out but this is false. Finland was an integral part of Sweden not a dominion.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
    My pleasure to deal with some kind of mixed up Finnish-Finlandssvensk-Nordicist-non-Nordicist-Swedish-non-Swedish northern Cro-Magnid from whom I suffer many doubtful contributions on several forums.
    Thanks for providing me a nice laugh! I try to somehow understand you point but I am afraid I having hard time. But, Let's try, I am only doing this since I love speak about myself. 1) I am not mixed, I am a Finnish cictized of Swedish extraction. Pretty simple. 2) You probably tried to imply that I am somewhat in contradiction with my alleged nordicism and my Cro-magnid looks? Yes? Well, just for you to know genetics have replaced metrics and Coon's Aurignacoid vs. Cro-magnid thing is just bollocks, which does not make biological sense, but let's not go into that, would be too tough bite for you. I've been classified here,
    http://www.biodiversityforum.com/sho...d.php5?t=30277 (starting from page 2, Agrippa's comments on page 4) You are getting pathetic.

    So your point is that Estonia has been under Germanic rule or influence, right? Then I definitely agree, but it brings us back to your exclusive claim of Germanicness. There are certainly countries as or more Germanic-influenced than Estonia, right? Not only Finland.
    Estonia is one of the most Germanic influenced non-Germanic countries, The Germanic component in a such a small popula as Estonians is far more greater than in French, not to even mentioning Italians.

    If this was intended to "hurt" me, I am truly sad to inform you of your failure.
    N

    othing was intended to hurt you. I am speaking with history and science backing me up. Not so sure about you.

    I know next to nothing about Poland because I don't actually care about countries that far from Western Europe, where my ancestors lived.
    Yup, ignorant man, a typical Frankophile. You know very little baltic languages either.


    Several things:
    I wonder though if a Finn would slap me for telling him his country is Germanic, and even worse Swedish! I'm pretty sure Finns as a whole do not feel at all that comfortable admitting foreign rule, as much as my French-Canadian folks do not like to be reminded they have been incorporated by force in a Anglo-British political ensemble.
    I am sure you can find Finns slapping in the face, there are always people relaying on their national myths. Finland has never been under Swedish rule, well not any more than say Stockholmers, Östland (Finland) was integral half of Swedish kingdom and Östlanders had the same privilegies and responsibilities as residents in Svealand or Götaland. Aristocrats from Ostland voted for the king with as much influence as aristocrats from Norrland.

    3) Since you seem to admit regional differences, then why do you still consider France as a whole monolithinc country, while it is not? No matter how centralized France is since Louis XIV, there are still genuine and obvious regional cultures and differences.
    I don't consider France as monolith in genetical terms, it was you who raised the fuss, wannabe!

    5) Who are you talking about with your "you guys"? I am a French Canadian with a Norman surnames and roots from Normandie, Picardie et Loire-Atlantique. Not a "French", my ancestors have not been French since they came here, between 1650 and 1700. And you've never seen my pictures, probably, but my phenotype is some light brown-haired and blue-eyed Sub-Nordid or Nordid/CM blend, which would allow me to be mistaken for a Northern European any day.
    If you are not dark and hairy drawf then just simple prove me wrong by posting you picture on public display f.e. Stop whining and behave like a man.

    4) The "official language of Finland is Swedish" is an insult to the majority of decent Finnish-speaking Finns out there. I wonder why you bring your imperialistic fantasms on a preservationnist board like this. Preservation is not exclusive to the Germanic people, right? So let the Finns have their language official, given that Swedish is indeed protected under law (hence under no clear threat).
    Why Finns would be unhappy with this? I think lot your stuff is based on your false assumption that Finland was somehow supressed by Swedish, "under their rule", well Like I said servants do not usually vote for king or enjoy similar privilegies than their masters, right?

    6) Finland was part of the Swedish "Empire", not nation, "Empire". You know the concept of an Empire, Peter? You settle in a FOREIGN land to exploit people and resources, and sometime to assimilate the native folks. Sadly for you, but happily for any rational man, Sweden failed to kill the rooted Finnish culture.
    Ostland was part of Swedish empire as was the other four admistrative Swedish regions: Svealand, Norrland & Götaland. In fact Ostland was falsely described as the Eastern HALF of Sweden. This flattering statement was false, since Ostland never even comprised half of the kingdom in geographical, demographical or Economical terms.

    7) I am pretty sure to not be considered an idiot on this board, while your case is much less clear, and not just on The Althing.
    You have very little to say except moaning and whining.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferryman View Post
    Finland was an integral part of Sweden not a dominion.
    This was pretty much true until the 16th century when things degenerated badly since Finland was mainly a source of taxes and troops. After Finland was lost, the Swedish empire was nothing but history.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferryman View Post
    I snipped all the ad hominems and other irrelevant stuff out but this is false. Finland was an integral part of Sweden not a dominion.
    It was adhominems for adhominems, you see? I can't restaint from answering to someone calling me an idiot, that's called being a proud person. And the passage you just quoted contains no ad hominems.


    It was not a "dominion", but was originally a foreign country settled by Swedish invaders.

    From the 12th century, Finland became a battleground between Russia and Sweden. The economic rivalry of the powers in the Baltic was turned into a religious rivalry, and the Swedish expeditions took on the character of crusades. Finland is mentioned together with Estonia in a list of Swedish provinces drawn up for the pope in 1120, apparently as a Swedish missionary area. The first crusade, according to tradition, was undertaken in about 1157 by King Erik, who was accompanied by an English bishop named Henry.
    ...
    Birger Jarl decided that a full effort was necessary to bring Finland into the Swedish sphere; in 1249 he led an expedition to Tavastia (now Häme), an area already Christianized.
    ...
    The Swedes began to administer Finland in accordance with Swedish traditions. Castles were built and taxes were collected, mainly in furs and, later, in grain, butter, and money. During the early Middle Ages, Finland was often given to members of the royal family as a duchy.
    ...
    In 1362 King Haakon of Sweden established the right of the Finns to participate in royal elections and the equal status of Finland with the other parts of the kingdom. Several years later Haakon was overthrown and Albert of Mecklenburg was crowned. Albert was unpopular with the Finns, and by 1374 a Swedish nobleman, Bo Jonsson Grip, had gained title to all of Finland. Grip died in 1386, and Finland soon after became part of the Kalmar Union.
    ...
    Under Swedish sovereignty the Finnish tribes gradually developed a sense of unity, which was encouraged by the bishops of Turku. Study in universities brought Finnish scholars into direct touch with the cultural centres of Europe, and Mikael Agricola (c. 1510–57), the creator of the Finnish literary language, brought the Lutheran faith from Germany. As part of medieval Sweden, Finland was drawn into the many wars and domestic battles of the Swedish nobility. In 1581 King John III raised Finland to the level of a grand duchy to irritate his Russian rival, Tsar Ivan IV the Terrible. Dispute over the Swedish crown, combined with quarrels over social conditions, foreign policy, and religion (Roman Catholic versus Lutheran), led to the last peasant revolt in Europe, the so-called Club War, in 1596–97. The hopes of the Finnish peasants were crushed, and, even when Charles IX, whom the peasants had supported, became king (1604–11), the social conditions did not improve. In the course of the administrative reforms of Gustav II Adolf (1611–32), Finland became an integral part of the kingdom, and the educated classes thereafter came increasingly to speak Swedish.
    SOURCE: ENCYCLOPAEDIA BRITANNICA

    That is colonialism, plain and simple. The equal status given to Finland does not change this fact.
    "The heavenly motions... are nothing but a continuous song for several voices, perceived not by the ear but by the intellect,
    a figured music which sets landmarks
    in the immeasurable flow of time."

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lissu View Post
    Your arguments have no value since thy contain additions such as shut your mouth or calling your other idiots, and that is not a very civilized, let alone Germanic behaviour from you.
    Germanic behavior, please, you mean Asiatic Japanese behavior? Germanic. Swedish (Viking) behavior would be marrying my fiance and fucking her in public together with my father in the wedding ceremony. My post contain harsh words here and there, so what? They contain facts which I can easily support with scientific historical sources too


    Finnish culture is and has been incredibly strong and viable, since it has survived through slaughtering the original Finnish nobility and attempts to destroy the Finnish language and culture along with the people. By the way, such measures lead to the destruction of the Swedish empire eventually...
    You cannot be serious, too much of Braveheart, perhaps? Finns were nothing but few scattered swampy tribes here and there without any viable culture, before the arrival of Germanics. Do not get me wrong I am not saying they were unable to contribute any culture I am only saying that they had not started to create any culture at the time being.


    If you have severe difficulties to understand sarcasm, then it's not a big surprize that you didn't grasp the informative value of my previous post.
    I understood your sarcams, it was funny post, especially the Rhodesia part, however you should give me reasons why you don't agree with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post

    That is colonialism, plain and simple. The equal status given to Finland does not change this fact.
    Not really that simple and definitely not that plain. The Swedish kingdom rose from the pact of Svea's and Göta's, they overwhelmed their rivals first in Sweden and after that they headed to Finland. Also, Finland was not any sovereign state with admistrative clerics and legistlation, Finland was only comprised of disunited and dispersed tribes here and there. Swedes did not invade a country, just annexed Territory from random tribes.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterThaGreat View Post
    Thanks for providing me a nice laugh! I try to somehow understand you point but I am afraid I having hard time. But, Let's try, I am only doing this since I love speak about myself. 1) I am not mixed, I am a Finnish cictized of Swedish extraction. Pretty simple. 2) You probably tried to imply that I am somewhat in contradiction with my alleged nordicism and my Cro-magnid looks? Yes? Well, just for you to know genetics have replaced metrics and Coon's Aurignacoid vs. Cro-magnid thing is just bollocks, which does not make biological sense, but let's not go into that, would be too tough bite for you. I've been classified here,
    http://www.biodiversityforum.com/sho...d.php5?t=30277 (starting from page 2, Agrippa's comments on page 4) You are getting pathetic.
    I read HBF on a daily basis, thanks for sharing though.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterThaGreat View Post
    Estonia is one of the most Germanic influenced non-Germanic countries, The Germanic component in a such a small popula as Estonians is far more greater than in French, not to even mentioning Italians.
    No one here talked about "the French" or "the Italians", rather about "some French" and "italian citizens from South Tyrol". Estonia was pretty much Germanic-influenced, that's a fact, my point was one your exclusive, definitive and ridiculous definition of what's Germanic-influenced and what is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterThaGreat View Post
    Nothing was intended to hurt you. I am speaking with history and science backing me up. Not so sure about you.
    I doubt your first sentence. History and knowledge of culture back me, fortunately, and I never focussed on genetics, as I already know what you try to show me.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterThaGreat View Post
    Yup, ignorant man, a typical Frankophile. You know very little baltic languages either.
    Thanks for the ad hominem, it just proves your lack of point. And you probably don't know a single Baltic language either, unless you happen to master Lithuanian, Latvian or Old Prussian.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeterThaGreat View Post
    I am sure you can find Finns slapping in the face, there are always people relaying on their national myths. Finland has never been under Swedish rule, well not any more than say Stockholmers, Östland (Finland) was integral half of Swedish kingdom and Östlanders had the same privilegies and responsibilities as residents in Svealand or Götaland. Aristocrats from Ostland voted for the king with as much influence as aristocrats from Norrland.
    The finnish people was still not Germanic. Do you agree?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterThaGreat View Post
    I don't consider France as monolith in genetical terms, it was you who raised the fuss, wannabe!
    I quote you: France is a country with only one national language and purely based on Romance tradition. Purely based on Romance tradition? If you talked about your language, your sentence was poorly constructed, if you were talking about the country as a whole, then your consider France as a monolith.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterThaGreat View Post
    If you are not dark and hairy drawf then just simple prove me wrong by posting you picture on public display f.e. Stop whining and behave like a man.


    You want more, Peter? I know you have a blond guy fetish.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterThaGreat View Post
    Why Finns would be unhappy with this? I think lot your stuff is based on your false assumption that Finland was somehow supressed by Swedish, "under their rule", well Like I said servants do not usually vote for king or enjoy similar privilegies than their masters, right?
    I hope Lissu will talk on the topic of Finnish attitude about Sweden and Swedish.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterThaGreat View Post
    Ostland was part of Swedish empire as was the other four admistrative Swedish regions: Svealand, Norrland & Götaland. In fact Ostland was falsely described as the Eastern HALF of Sweden. This flattering statement was false, since Ostland never even comprised half of the kingdom in geographical, demographical or Economical terms.
    Yes, I knew that. Does it make Finland (the Finnish folk), Germanic? No, I am sorry. Fortunately, foreign rule does not always succeed in killing native culture, as many examples show.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterThaGreat View Post
    You have very little to say except moaning and whining.
    Thanks for talking about yourself, it makes me save some time.
    "The heavenly motions... are nothing but a continuous song for several voices, perceived not by the ear but by the intellect,
    a figured music which sets landmarks
    in the immeasurable flow of time."

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtz View Post
    It was adhominems for adhominems, you see? I can't restaint from answering to someone calling me an idiot, that's called being a proud person. And the passage you just quoted contains no ad hominems.


    It was not a "dominion", but was originally a foreign country settled by Swedish invaders.



    SOURCE: ENCYCLOPAEDIA BRITANNICA

    That is colonialism, plain and simple. The equal status given to Finland does not change this fact.
    The crusades or conquests are a myth according to modern studies not a historical fact. Besides there were christians in FInland atleast from the 10th century onwards. Also areas of FInland were in a union with Swedes and there are academic theories that Finns invited Swedes here. Also, one can't speak of a conquest since FInland wasn't a country at the time and large parts of modern FInland were not even part of Österland but part of the Norrland province. It was not really conquest, more an expansion to a wilderness are which was mostly uninhabited. Quite similar process as was the gradual swedish expansion in to Norrland.

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