View Poll Results: Is the concept of ubermensch...

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  • Yes, only to the Germanic Peoples

    2 22.22%
  • Yes, but with occasional exceptions

    0 0%
  • No, it is appliable to all

    6 66.67%
  • No, it's a bunch of rubbish

    1 11.11%
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Thread: Your Opinions on Nietzsche's Overman (Übermensch)

  1. #31
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    Post Re: The Concept of the Superman[Nietzsche contra Evola]

    Quote Originally Posted by Oskorei
    IMHO Nietzsche was more of a poet and a visionary than a builder of systems. The Evolian concept is much clearer (at the same time it is deeply connected to Evolas view on the metaphysical and the afterlife, so an atheist will have little use for Evola's promises of immortality). Nietzsche can act as a balance to Evola though, because Evolas emphasis on detachment at times borders on the unhealthy. There is a nihilist mysticism in Nietzsche, the Dionysian aspect of his thought, that is lacking in Evola. Probably the two authors are good for different people.
    I agree. In fact I get something out of both streams of thought.They appear to contradict one another but I find that the one supplies what is missing in the other.

  2. #32
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    Post Re: The Concept of the Superman[Nietzsche contra Evola]

    Mankind and the better humans in special, should have a goal, a useful goal for them personally, for their kinship, their collective and the ecosystem.
    This goal should be a better human, an human with higher responsibility for his group and for life.
    To reach this, we have to look both on society, education and the biological base of man and we should learn, we should learn what are our weaknesses and strengths.

    On the long run we should eliminite, if possible all dangerous or really negative weaknesses and forward the positive things. The result should be a better community and mankind - at some point some humans might be more than humans can be today, if they are more progressive, have more potential. If such humans exist, the first great step is done, this humans might be called supermen.
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
    STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!

  3. #33
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    Post Re: The Concept of the Superman[Nietzsche contra Evola]

    Evola stands in relation to Nietzsche as Plato stood in relation to Heraclites. There are similarities between them, but Evola is ultimately a neo-Platonist and Nietzsche's übermensch lives 'down here'. And Modern Benoni should perhaps go read The Will to Power himself instead of making absurd comments about it, Book Four: Discipline and Breeding elaborates on what the übermensch is - strength, balanced energy, perfection, endurance, will to mastery, refinement. Evola's 'man of tradition' and Nietzsche's übermensch are effectively the same thing, only Evola adds a Platonic idealist realm of Order and places emphasis there, while Nietzsche does the opposite, denigrates platonic idealism and places emphasis on becoming rather than being.
    Last edited by Jack; Thursday, November 11th, 2004 at 01:15 AM.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

  4. #34
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    Post Re: The Concept of the Superman[Nietzsche contra Evola]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Ripper
    Evola stands in relation to Nietzsche as Plato stood in relation to Heraclites. There are similarities between them, but Evola is ultimately a neo-Platonist and Nietzsche's übermensch lives 'down here'. And Modern Benoni should perhaps go read The Will to Power himself instead of making absurd comments about it, Book Four: Discipline and Breeding elaborates on what the übermensch is - strength, balanced energy, perfection, endurance, will to mastery, refinement. Evola's 'man of tradition' and Nietzsche's übermensch are effectively the same thing, only Evola adds a Platonic idealist realm of Order and places emphasis there, while Nietzsche does the opposite, denigrates platonic idealism and places emphasis on becoming rather than being.
    I agree with your comparison of the 2 philosphers.

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    Nietzsche: Of War and Warriors

    Excellent exegesis.

    "Of War and Warriors teaches the actor the value of cultivating a sharp focus on and ruthless resolve for the image of Self which is coming to the fore, to allow oneself to be consumed by a frenzied willfulness toward its embodiment...."

    http://w3.publicappeal.org/node/view/123

  6. #36
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    Post Re: The Concept of the Superman[Nietzsche contra Evola]

    Nietzsche is apollinian and dyonisian at the same time, and try to conciliate these two opposites. The union of solar and lunar. The becoming.

    Evola is only apollinian, and rejects the dyonisian. The solar over the lunar. The being.

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    How do you know ze Übermensch?

    What is ze nature of ze Ubermensch? What are his values? morals? What is his character? How does one know ze Ubermensch when he comes? How does one become ze Ubermensch? Is ze Ubermensch a uniquely Nietzschean concept? Is John Galt from Atlas Shrugged
    ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged ) an example of ze Ubermensch? Is Schwarzeneggar an example of ze Ubermensch? Is it possible for a lazy American to transform himself into ze Ubermensch? Is ze shattering of paradigms and illusions a characteristic of ze Ubermensch?

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by nicholas; Monday, March 27th, 2006 at 05:55 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by fms panzerfaust
    Nietzsche is apollinian and dyonisian at the same time, and try to conciliate these two opposites. The union of solar and lunar.
    ... Evola is only apollinian, and rejects the dyonisian. The solar over the lunar. The being.
    Thank you - now I understand what Evolians [like Utopian] mean when they say that the warrior caste is in danger of being "lunar" etc.,

    Rosenberg also rejects the 'lunar' in his 'Myth of the 20th Century', so he and Evola would at least agree on that.

    However, does Evola [or Rosenberg] actually deal with Nietzsche's very profound and philosophical notion that the Dionysian is the sub-stratum upon which the Apollonian necessarily doth arise?

    I think it folly to try and disown the Dionysian, especially when so much in the Wotan archetype is similarly 'lunar'.

    I am not decided myself whether or not the Dionysian is completely Aryan [but then I have much to learn!]


    The first post in this thread, if it be quoting aright, seems to suggest that Evola misread his Nietzsche.

    Evola is supposed to claim that Nietzsche did not go 'beyond good & evil', but rather invented his own 'good & evil', as if this suggests a self-contradiction on the part of Nietzsche.

    And yet, surely Evola is aware that Nietzsche separated the system of 'good & evil' from the system of 'good & bad' [the two basic forms of morality as he saw it]!

    The latter system of 'good & bad' he called Master Morality and clearly held it in high esteem.]
    Whereas the former system of 'good & evil' was to him the antithesis of 'good & bad', and caused by "the slave revolt in morals".

    Therefore Nietzsche always called for a return to 'good & bad', and said [in his Genealogy, I think] that " 'beyond good & evil' did not mean, 'beyond good & bad'!"

    Therefore Nietzsche was not only pulling down (a particular) morality [slave-morality], he was also openly putting up another kind of morality, Master Morality, in its place.


    Nietzsche's way of getting out from under Nihilism was his promulgation of the ancient [and traditonal!] doctrine of the Eternal Return.

    Of course, some argue that there is a contradiction between the 'eternal return [of the same]' and the Superman doctrine, as the latter must already have come been and gone 'ad infinitum' if everything has returned [and will return] eternally.

    The so-called 'anti-Nazis' like to make much of Nietzsche's sister's publishing of 'The Will to Power', and pretend she distorted this work.
    This just isn't true; the 'The Will to Power' was compiled from plans, notes, and passages in Nietzsche's own hand, much of the copyist work being done by Nietzsche's closest friend and trusted amenuensis, the musician Peter Gast; and Gast was one of the few who could actually read Nietzsche's handwriting [as well as knowing his philosophy intimately].

    I certainly believe that Hitler was close to a Nietzschean Superman - indeed, Nietzsche's sister told Hitler that her brother would've thought so too!

    Quote Originally Posted by Manji
    Do you consider the concept of übermensch (as described by Nietszche) only applyable to the germanic peoples?
    On the face of it, no [given Nietzsche's praise of the Aryan Greeks and his use of the Aryan Persian Zarathustra as a mouthpiece for the teaching of the Ubermensch].

    But it is worth noting that the very perceptive CG Jung felt that despite Nietzsche's use of Zarathustra and Dionysus, in fact his conception was quintessentially Germanic!

    In other words, try as he might, Nietzsche couldn't fool the world that his Ubermensch was as Germanic as was Goethe's Faust!

    And I think that is the truth of the matter.
    Last edited by Moody; Sunday, November 26th, 2006 at 02:42 PM. Reason: merged two consecutive posts
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  9. #39
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    AW: Re: The Concept of Übermensch

    Übermensch is primary an concept for the mind!
    Well, Nietzsche also says the Übermensch is healthy and "right-angled", but nothing specific about the race or origin.

  10. #40
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    Re: AW: Re: The Concept of Übermensch

    Quote Originally Posted by EarthSoul
    Übermensch is primary an concept for the mind!
    Well, Nietzsche also says the Übermensch is healthy and "right-angled", but nothing specific about the race or origin.
    True; but doesn't it strike you as something that only a German could really come up with?

    I see that you are German, so perhaps it is difficult to be objective.
    Do not Germans sing Germany "Uber" all?

    And why not?
    I do not condemn such pride, and I wish that Europe as a whole was more 'German' in many respects.

    And can you really imagine a French, English, Spanish, or Italian philosopher [pre-Zarathustra] coming up with the Uber-mensch?



    Tell me if I am wrong.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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