View Poll Results: Can you be a Muslim and be a Germanic preservationist too?

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    165 80.88%
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Thread: Islam & Germanic Identity

  1. #81
    Senior Member SwordOfTheVistula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GroeneWolf View Post
    There is more to that. If you convert to Judaisme you also become part of the nationality. However in a shariamanual I read a few weeks ago, it is stated that Arabs are raised above all other people. The manual in question the Al-Anzar univeristity and represtens the orthodox opion. So going by your words he is also stupid. Not only did he turn his back on his own people, he had chosen to follow a religion that makes it impossible of him being part of the "chosen" people. He is just a muslim and not an Arab muslim.
    Interesting. I would imagine this is true in only Sunni and not Shiite Islam?
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordOfTheVistula View Post
    Interesting. I would imagine this is true in only Sunni and not Shiite Islam?
    The manuel is from one of the 4 major Sunni schools, and like I said the more orthodox of these 4. How it is with the Shia I don't know.

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    In the old days, when I still had the energy to waste time arguing with muslims, the few Shiites I came across did seem far more reasonable people. They had a more rational attitude to their beliefs, and didn't subscribe to all that Hadith nonsense. They struck me rather as Islamic Protestants.

    Unfortunately, like Protestants, they are still shackled to the fundaments of their scripture, and in Iran at the moment, if you analogise with British history, they seem to be in the 1650s stage of development... It may be possible to get some sense out of them one day, and reform the Middle East from the inside out. IF we just let them alone to get one with things in their own time, that is...

  4. #84
    Senior Member Rassenpapst's Avatar
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  5. #85
    Senior Member IlluSionSxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    In the old days, when I still had the energy to waste time arguing with muslims, the few Shiites I came across did seem far more reasonable people. They had a more rational attitude to their beliefs, and didn't subscribe to all that Hadith nonsense. They struck me rather as Islamic Protestants.
    A recent interview with an Iranian Ayatollah that I've seen seems to imply that you're right. Shia muslems tend to be far more rational than Sunni muslems and in fact encourage the almost unlimited application of science and philosophy.

    I don't see what makes Protestants any more rational than Catholics, though. In my experience, Catholics tend to be far more rational than Protestants. I happen to live in a Catholic country, though.

    To me, it seems like the followers of religious minorities in any area tend to be more zealous and irrational than the followers of those same religions in areas where these religions make up the majority, because being a minority forces people to hold on to their identity and their viewpoints much stronger. I noticed this phenomenon especially among Jews, Protestants, Catholics and Muslems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    Unfortunately, like Protestants, they are still shackled to the fundaments of their scripture, and in Iran at the moment, if you analogise with British history, they seem to be in the 1650s stage of development...
    Don't buy into all the propaganda that likes to depict Iran as a backwards nation. It isn't. Surely their morallity seems outdated from a Western-European perspective, but that isn't necessarilly a bad thing. Considering how deep we've sunk during the 20th century, their morallity might actually be superior to ours.

    Scientifically, Iran is a very advanced modern nation. The primary university of this Shia nation has even cloned its own sheep (although cloning is considered not compliant with Qur'An, cloning for medical purposes is allowed nevertheless).

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    It may be possible to get some sense out of them one day, and reform the Middle East from the inside out. IF we just let them alone to get one with things in their own time, that is...
    Before we start telling them what to do, it is most important we get our own act together. Today, I'd rather put my bets on Iran than on the EU or the US if I had to say which is most likely to prosper in the future.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlluSionSxxx View Post
    I don't see what makes Protestants any more rational than Catholics, though. In my experience, Catholics tend to be far more rational than Protestants.
    I'm a Protestant, silly! :p
    It's all the kissing statues, rattling off set mantras and stuff that gets me. : The hymns aren't as good either. And the priests are all nasal-voiced chinless homosexual Irishmen in my experience...
    To me, it seems like the followers of religious minorities in any area tend to be more zealous and irrational than the followers of those same religions in areas where these religions make up the majority, because being a minority forces people to hold on to their identity and their viewpoints much stronger.
    Sudan being the exception...
    Depends on the nature of the situation, of course.
    Don't buy into all the propaganda that likes to depict Iran as a backwards nation. It isn't.
    Neither was 1650s Britain.
    Surely their morallity seems outdated from a Western-European perspective, but that isn't necessarilly a bad thing. Considering how deep we've sunk during the 20th century, their morallity might actually be superior to ours.
    I tend to judge cultures by the 'brainwashed fanaticism' quotient, and people whipping emselves with chains is quite high up on that! Self harm in any variety (hairshirts, stylitism, and other nasty things that used to happen even here). Freedom to speculate, without abandoning our past. The realisation that we were shaped by our ancient pasts, and that all these things that we haven't yet got round to fully accommodating, like urbanism and organised religion, are not really conducive to our biological nature and need to be adapted accordingly. I'd like my people to break out of its bounds and yet still see the necessary constraints of its biological essence. I wish others could too, provided we didn't start developing idiot ideas about all being 'only humans' with no distinction between ourselves. I hope the Iranians get to this point one day, but I'm not in favour of dragging em into it kicking and screaming.

  7. #87
    Senior Member Aptrgangr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlluSionSxxx View Post
    (...)
    Don't buy into all the propaganda that likes to depict Iran as a backwards nation.
    So this is progressive ?
    Quote Originally Posted by IlluSionSxxx View Post
    It isn't. Surely their morallity seems outdated from a Western-European perspective, but that isn't necessarilly a bad thing. Considering how deep we've sunk during the 20th century, their morallity might actually be superior to ours.
    So e.g. hanging 16 yo girls that have been raped is a good thing? We have sunken deep, that's true - but how is their morality superiour to us?

  8. #88
    Senior Member IlluSionSxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    I'm a Protestant, silly! :p
    That explains a lot

    No, seriously... I've been raised a Catholic and called myself a Catholic until the age of 17. I've even been an altar boy, which gave me the oportunity to have frequent talks and discussions with my village priest. So I think I know what I'm talking about when I'm referring to Catholicism

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    It's all the kissing statues, rattling off set mantras and stuff that gets me. :
    Catholicism may have far more rituals than Protestantism, but I'd like to remind you that many of these rituals are more or less authentic Germanic Heathen rituals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    The hymns aren't as good either.
    My father has always said that they should replace Catholic choirs with gospel choirs if the Catholic church wants to regain sympathy among the population. While there are some decent choirs out there, many are just horrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    And the priests are all nasal-voiced chinless homosexual Irishmen in my experience...
    I've seen many priests in my life but never an Irish one :p

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    To me, it seems like the followers of religious minorities in any area tend to be more zealous and irrational than the followers of those same religions in areas where these religions make up the majority, because being a minority forces people to hold on to their identity and their viewpoints much stronger.
    Sudan being the exception...
    Depends on the nature of the situation, of course.
    ... or the nature of the beast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    Don't buy into all the propaganda that likes to depict Iran as a backwards nation. It isn't.
    Neither was 1650s Britain.
    Just one question : would you rather live in 1650s Britain or would you rather live today? Would your answer be the same if you could choose the social class you were born into?

    Anyway, I'd prefer Britain in 1650 over Britain today, especially if I could choose the social class I was born into.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    I tend to judge cultures by the 'brainwashed fanaticism' quotient, and people whipping emselves with chains is quite high up on that! Self harm in any variety (hairshirts, stylitism, and other nasty things that used to happen even here).
    With the exception of a few rare extremist religious orders, there are no people whipping themselves in Catholicism. On the other hand, Protestants (unlike Catholics) call for supporting and admiring humanity's greatest enemy (the Jews) all the time. Let's also not forget about the various radical Protestant denominations (eg. Mennonites or Amish), whereas Catholicism has only Opus Dei as an equivalent. I'd say the massochism is far greater on the side of Protestantism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    I'd like my people to break out of its bounds and yet still see the necessary constraints of its biological essence. I wish others could too, provided we didn't start developing idiot ideas about all being 'only humans' with no distinction between ourselves. I hope the Iranians get to this point one day, but I'm not in favour of dragging em into it kicking and screaming.
    I'm pretty sure that Iranians are far closer to this idea today than Americans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aptrgangr View Post
    So this is progressive ?
    That type of dress is most popular in Saudi-Arabia: America's ally and the most dangerous influence of the Islamic world with its Wahabi extremism. Iranian women generally prefer to dress like this :





    Quote Originally Posted by Aptrgangr View Post
    So e.g. hanging 16 yo girls that have been raped is a good thing?
    Again, I think you're confusing your ally Saudi-Arabia with Iran.

  9. #89
    Senior Member SwordOfTheVistula's Avatar
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    Saudi Arabia's setting a good example for us: they just announced plans to build a 550 mile long border fence

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../01/wirq01.xml

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  10. #90
    Senior Member Old Winter's Avatar
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    Post

    For the:

    Sure thing! 6 10.34%

    I want to give you some information:

    First, Islam is a Jewish religion, its even closer to the Jewish religion then the Christian Religion, where Christ was rebelling against the Jewish laws Mohammed brought them to the Arabs.

    First, while Muhammad is settling down in Medina and his position there is insecure, he tries to convince the Jews that his revelations were the continuation of Judaism (and Christianity), the religion of the People of the Book or the Bible. Before he left Mecca, he faced Syria (i.e. Jerusalem) in prayer. The early Muslims in Medina may have observed the fast for the Day of Atonement, and their special Friday worship was a response to the beginning of the Jewish Sabbath from Friday evening to Saturday evening. Muhammad forbad the Muslims from eating the same food prohibited for Jews, namely, pork, blood, carrion, and meat sacrificed to idols (see Sura 2:172-173). It seems, then, that earliest Islam was the development and even improvement on the prior faith, Judaism, or so Muhammad believed.
    Mohammed wanted to be the Jewish Messiah:

    Look at the dietary laws, look at the communal prayers, look at the prayer caps, look at the dress code, look at the prohibition on shaving, look at the fixation on Jerusalem, look at the fasting, look at the daily prayers, look at the whole thing.
    In a nutshell, Mohammad wanted to be proclaimed the Jewish Messiah (the messianic desires of Mohammad have been documented) and when the Jews didn't accept him as the Jewish messiah he turned against them.


    Both Jewish and Islamic traditions consider Ishmael as the ancestor of Arab people. According to the Muslim tradition, Muhammad was a descendant of Ishmael through his son Kedar.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismael


    Second, something that goes against everything we are:

    -Men are in charge of women, because Allah made men to be better than women. Women must obey men, and if they refuse they must be punished. Refuse to have sex with them and beat them into submission (Islam). 4:34

    And for the Germanic culture:

    -Allah will destroy non-muslim cultures. 7:138-9


    I Rather be a Dhimmi, a Kaffir, a Infidel, a Gentile and a Heathen, thank you very much.

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