View Poll Results: Can you be a Muslim and be a Germanic preservationist too?

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Thread: Islam & Germanic Identity

  1. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    Is a Germanic Christian the same as an African Christian? Does their differences lie at fault with Christianity itself or with the genetic/racial differences of these people?
    Obviously the genetic differences between people are the main source of differences, but religion can still influence a lot. (I have no idea what the Islamic impact on genes is, but it's probably negative. Cousin marriage, and all that.). Almost all Muslim countries seem to be poorer and dumber than their non-Muslim neighbors, from what I've seen. This article comes to mind:

    http://amren.com/news/2010/08/islams_achievem/

    This thread is primarily concerned with Islam the religion, not Arabs. In any case, I have sincere doubts that Arabs are more anti-intellectual than your average African.
    Sure, but your average African is the least intellectual being on the planet. They're easily the stupidest race. But to be honest, I've seen a few Muslim Arabs who are mentally-wise on a nearly African level.

    What is truly lamentable is that even the modern West is quite anti-intellectual. How many people on Facebook or other social networking sites have listed under their favorite books "None!" or "Who reads these days?"
    I don't disagree with that. But this thread was about Islam, not the modern West and the dumbing-down of our people.

  2. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    If a Germanic person, or a European person for that matter, converted to Islam, would you consider him or her a traitor?
    Traitor is a strong word and it's none of my business to say so, anyway.

    It doesn't matter what I or you or anyone say -
    that person, by making this choice, would automatically alienate him/herself from his/her Germanic peers.
    If s/he has to follow the ways of Islam, he/her would instantly be affiliated with other Muslim people, not with other Germanic people.

    Even if such a person still held views of Germanic preservation?
    This is not possible.
    Have you read the Quran? What it says about infidels?
    It is not possible for someone to embrace Islam and support the preservation about non-Islamic people.

    If so, what in particular about conversion to Islam would make you think less of them?
    Everything in general, and nothing in particular.

    And I don't think less of them. I just feel their worldview and ways are directly opposed to my own - and I am not even Germanic.

    For Western Civilization's future, do you see secular atheism and the current socio-religious outlook held by the West to be superior than a conversion to Islam?
    What kind of question is this? It's either secular atheism or Islam? Who poses this dilemma?

    And yes, if I must ask this question:

    secular atheism is more favourable than Islam.

    Anything is more favourable than Islam.

    Secular atheism has produced a lot of brilliant minds, Islam, as a rule of thumb, produces slaves and brain washed fundamentalists.

    If not, what do you suggest should be the religion of the future for European civilization?
    European civilization has flourished under many religions, in different periods, and at the same time it is not particularly associated with a specific religion.

    I think religion is in the bottom line unimportant in how Europeans deal with their affairs. The first issues to be resolved are socio-political and structural.

  3. #233
    Senior Member Alfadur's Avatar
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    A few last comments to Elessar and other Christian traditionalists on here - you're obviously right that there are serious problems with Western civilization, and we all know that drastic action is needed if we are to survive at all as a people. While it's true that Germanic societies have become corrupt, degenerate and empty of ideals, making themselves a modern-day "Golem" standing in total opposition to the ideas and behavior that were once envisioned by far-seeing Germanics, some extreme traditionalists have a total lack of vision themselves.

    Many in the ultra-traditionalist crowd, including Julius Evola (who was otherwise a very smart person), are as besotted with "hippie charm" as any leftist. It's rather pointless to cry about the "soulless Kali Yuga" and yearn for the continuation of the mystery-mongering and religious superstition that is so appealing to the lowest common denominator. It's idiotic, urging us to distance ourselves from all science and reason, and instead suggesting a return to medieval ignorance and taking seriously the mumblings of gypsies. Whatever can be said of our rotten society, our technology and science are this earth's supreme achievement and a product of the European "solar spirit" which strives for knowledge.

    Since the Cultural Marxists talk about "progress" and claim to be the adherents of "science", there are many traditionalists who advocate the exact opposite. Such a mindset is one of the reasons why the right-wing is stuck in a hopeless place right now. "Whatever they do, we won't!" seems to be the mantra.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blood_Axis View Post
    that person, by making this choice, would automatically alienate him/herself from his/her Germanic peers. If s/he has to follow the ways of Islam, he/her would instantly be affiliated with other Muslim people, not with other Germanic people.
    Thank you. This pretty much sums up what I was saying about Islam - there can be no "Pro-Germanic Muslims", because they would associate with Muslims and not with other Germanics. It's a dogmatic religion that forces the worshippers to re-orient their entire worldview around their newfound Islamic identity....and the sight of white Muslim converts who adopt Arabic names, dress like "ethnics", eat Arabic food, and often date Arabs is just the external sign of this.

    (Phew, my posts always turn out long-winded ).

  4. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfadur View Post
    Thank you. This pretty much sums up what I was saying about Islam - there can be no "Pro-Germanic Muslims", because they would associate with Muslims and not with other Germanics. It's a dogmatic religion that forces the worshippers to re-orient their entire worldview around their Islamic identity, and the sight of white Muslim converts who take on Arabic names, dress like "ethnics" and eat Arabic food is just an external sign of this. (Phew, my posts always turn out long-winded ).
    And this is merely the superficial aspect of it.

    Lest we forget that Muslims are only allowed to marry other Muslims. Hence their blood will most likely be passed on to other ethnic groups, not Germans or Europeans, as the probability of finding another European convert to marry is much smaller, than finding a non-European Muslim to marry.

    Most of the Europeans that I have personally known to have converted to Islam, have done so after having fallen in love and wanting to marry a non-European Muslim.
    I have the recent example of an American friend who converted in order to marry a black African-American muslim,
    and that of a Finnish woman who renamed herself Fatimah, now lives in Pakistan and fashions a burqua on her Facebook profile picture

  5. #235
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet
    Yeah, especially when compared to the free thinking atheistic and culturally Marxist West right?
    Well, then why dont you just go into that paradise of lands? I wonder

    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet
    In Judaism the Jews are the chosen people, in Christianity the Church/Christians are the chosen people. Perhaps you should actually become acquainted with a religion before you make false claims and embarrass yourself.
    Oh, I did. And every time I did I had to puke about those individualistic christians who abandoned their tribe and even family (I think the bit has been quoted several times, something like turn away from your family to follow me or something, said Jesus)

    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet
    Neither do actually.
    Yeah, right. Did you ever read your bible? Or the Q'ran for that matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet
    And you are the representative of the entire Germanic race? You speak for what is right or wrong for all of us? Interesting.
    Unfortunately not. But someone must tell the sheeple that they have been lied to

    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet
    No you don't. Religion is about man and his relationship to God and the cosmos. No religion is about racial supremacy except for maybe Judaism.
    LOL. Yes, right.

    Look, it's one of the grand christian lies that religion is about man, the individual only, without anything else that belongs to him, his race, his tribe, his family, his community. Worse, christianity teaches you that you must ignore and abandon all this to follow "Jesus".

    You though still wonder where Cultural Marxism comes from, and the hedonistic, egotistic rampant individualism that you so much decry.


    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet
    I usually don't lower myself to insults, and I know you don't want to hear it, but you are a raving lunatic with little to no knowledge of history or religion and it makes me question why I even bother replying to you. Here is a tip: get rid of your hatred because it is blinding you.
    Wrong. My raving hatred enabled me to see.

    You are not even willing to look at neutral history, you "advise" me to read "church history", which is by and large polished bullshit, invented nonsense.

    Go prove the existence of Harry Potter based on the scripture about him. You see, it's about the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet
    Really? I don't recall saying any of that. I said I would rather live in a theocratic Islamic society with traditional values than the modern culturally Marxist West. That's all I said, and I stand by that claim.
    Dont let the door hit you


    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet
    Once again you prove that your conception of history is essentially identical to the Marxist one. And are you seriously saying that medieval Europe was a multiracial hellhole? Compared to what, the modern West? Are you sane?
    I said the Roman Empire (of which most of Germania was luckily not part) was a multiracial hellhole. And in as much the Carolingians were heirs to the western parts, it was yes, a multiracial empire. Of course nothing compared to the Roman empire with its North African, Middle Eastern and Asia Minor chaos, granted. But it was not a monoracial empire either full of happy Germanics only. Remnants of those people who had essentially replaced the ancient Italics in Italy continued to add their blood to varying degrees in the various empires emerging from the crash (and sometimes century long voids) and their admixture can clearly be seen in what is now considered "European".


    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet
    First off, the medieval peasant lived a fairly good life actually, certainly much better than your average prole in the post-Industrial world. The myth of dire poverty of the Middle Ages is just that, a myth, perpetuated by the Enlightenment era and Marxist historiography you love so much. Not to say that there wasn't poverty, because poverty has always existed. What is most pathetic is that you fail to realize that the primary institution providing relief for the poor was the Church, whose monasteries and hospitals were among the only places the poor could find solace.
    LOL. Yes, speak 3 Ave Marias to heal your illness

    Serious, that church providing relief for the poor is pretty much a 19th century thing, and even more a 20th century thing, feeding the poor in Africa to expand their sphere of influence because they couldnt fool the Europeans anymore. In former centuries the church pressed out the populace to finance megalomanic projects. In that, they were pretty similar to the "nobility". Oh, right, essentially they were the same, the church, after all, crowned kings and emperors and so decided who was to become "nobility" and who not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet
    Secondly, there is no such thing as a Jewish God, or a German God, or a Japanese God, or anything else according to Christianity, or really any religion except for Judaism. There is only the one God, who is the God of all creatures and the creator the entire universe.
    Gods, you really believe that

    You still deny christianity's "universalism" though, you still dont understand that the individualistic, regardless-of-race/culture approach is the very heart of cultural relativism, of exchangeability of every defining attribute by nature, that this dystopia must strife for the eradication of borders and the equality of all people, and since this is not possible as long as ethnicities exist, must consequently strife to create a coffeebrown mixed race people whose only communality will be their shared religion that has been deprived of all uniqueness. This view is the very heart of materialism even.



    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet
    You need to really stop politicizing religion or trying to use spirituality as a political or racial tool. That is not the goal of religion, and it never has been.
    Interesting. Maybe you should have told that the Vatican and all the Popes who chose the kings of their servant kingdoms

    After all, that religion became the defining factor is solely due to the Catholic megalomaniacism to claim, like an Islamic Caliph, all power and the last word in all political power.

    You even say you prefer the Islamic theocracy (because in the west, the caliphatic, eh sorry, papal theocracy crumbled), which is an outright oxymoron to what you said above. Either religion is an entirely personal thing (then religion doesnt have a place in politics) or it is a political tool, and then you have, can possibly have, a theocracy. You explicitely said you want a theocracy, so of course religion is a political tool.

    I just think, in contrast to you, that we Germanics should eventually find our own tool for that, one that functions in line with our nature, that is a product of our culture and spirituality and not that of a foreign people, based on our values not that of a foreign people.

    In contrast to you, I dont indulge in the fantasy that religion or culture is "universal". Race and ethnicity is the foundation of culture, of the way a people approaches life and the divine, and politics is there to serve and advance the culture and the people. It is naturally a unity.

    Your "universal" sect has destroyed this unity, made it an exchangeable good that knows no borders, no limits and no responsibilities, but wanted above all political power.


    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet
    The only goal of religion is for man to grow closer to God or the Divine. What a man's political views may be are separate from religion, hence why we can find both Christian liberals and Christian fascists, Christian democrats and Christian monarchists, Christian racialists and Christian multiculturalists. Focusing in on the ones who you dislike and ignoring the one's that agree with the view points of a forum such as Skadi to further your argument is intellectual dishonesty.
    No, I just say that christianity obviously is whatever people wish it was, that everyone puts into it whatever they think serves their very wordly goals, but is entirely void in itself. As such, why call yourself even christian, implying that you belong to a group, when this "group" is so diverse that they cant even agree on the very basics of the belief they allegedly share? I'm pretty sure that you'd likelier agree with a Hindu or Muslim on questions of the "nature of god/divine" than with a random christian from your district.

    It's nice when christians are for Germanic preservation despite them being christians, and they are of course welcome to support that goal. But they do so despite being christians. As such, christianity is no viable option for our future as a people. And for sure, christians should be kept away from any form of power and influence, so that they can concentrate on their personal way to the devine.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

    my signature

  6. #236
    Senior Member Plantagenet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Well, then why dont you just go into that paradise of lands? I wonder
    I just might.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Oh, I did. And every time I did I had to puke about those individualistic christians who abandoned their tribe and even family (I think the bit has been quoted several times, something like turn away from your family to follow me or something, said Jesus)
    You vomit after reading? You might need glasses or something if it causes you to get sick when straining your eyes. Though this would explain a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Yeah, right. Did you ever read your bible? Or the Q'ran for that matter?
    Yup, as well as traditional theologians and philosophers of the respective religions. I don't recall either being about racial supremacy, neither do their adherents. Perhaps I should take the word of a polemicist blinded by hatred instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Unfortunately not. But someone must tell the sheeple that they have been lied to
    Sheeple are people who cannot escape a certain paradigm of thought or intellectual limitation. For example, the juvenile dichotomy that "Christianity bad; anti-Christianity good."

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    LOL. Yes, right.

    Look, it's one of the grand christian lies that religion is about man, the individual only, without anything else that belongs to him, his race, his tribe, his family, his community. Worse, christianity teaches you that you must ignore and abandon all this to follow "Jesus".

    You though still wonder where Cultural Marxism comes from, and the hedonistic, egotistic rampant individualism that you so much decry.
    See, you are back to politicizing religion again. Stop that. What I wonder most of all though is why during our entire history as a Christian civilization that our people didn't abandon their race, tribe, family, or community but that these elements were extremely strong? Whereas after Christianity has been abandoned these elements have grown far weaker....strange...

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Wrong. My raving hatred enabled me to see.

    You are not even willing to look at neutral history, you "advise" me to read "church history", which is by and large polished bullshit, invented nonsense.
    Strong emotions like hatred or fanaticism tend to block the rational mind from seeing clearly. To understand a given subject, the best course of action is to remove all emotions and look at it objectively. What you are doing is looking at a subject with nothing but your emotions, hence your skewed view of reality and history.

    Your definition of "church history" is any history regarding Christianity that doesn't agree with your preconceived notion of Christianity being an evil force of proto-Marxism or some sort of Jewish plot.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Go prove the existence of Harry Potter based on the scripture about him. You see, it's about the same.
    Harry Potter is a character of fiction who has a shape, a form, a name, and exists within space-time, and has nothing to do with the origin of the universe and the most fundamental questions of reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Dont let the door hit you
    Don't say good bye too quickly, if you live to be old enough Germany will eventually become such a society as well, considering the Muslim immigration and the mosques propping up everywhere. Shame you don't have a united religion to resist such a change, like Christianity for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    LOL. Yes, speak 3 Ave Marias to heal your illness
    Medieval medicine wasn't as advanced as modern medicine, but this was true of non-Christian societies also, certainly far superior to pre-Christian Germanic society however. The medievals were familiar with a wide range of herbal remedies for curing a variety of ailments. But that isn't to say there wasn't any advances made during the medieval period. Take for example Mondino de Liuzzi's advances in surgical anatomy.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Serious, that church providing relief for the poor is pretty much a 19th century thing, and even more a 20th century thing, feeding the poor in Africa to expand their sphere of influence because they couldnt fool the Europeans anymore. In former centuries the church pressed out the populace to finance megalomanic projects. In that, they were pretty similar to the "nobility". Oh, right, essentially they were the same, the church, after all, crowned kings and emperors and so decided who was to become "nobility" and who not.
    Here is where you prove your ignorance once more. Open up a history book and you can see very well that the Church was the first institution in the West to start caring for the poor and sick on a wide scale. Hospitals as we know them are an invention driven by the values of Christianity. This dates all the way back to the Byzantine period.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Gods, you really believe that
    Demonstrate to me how there can be a multiplicity of metaphysical entities for each and every ethnic group. You really think that there are multiple gods for each ethnic group competing for our recognition? They wouldn't really be Gods then would they?

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Interesting. Maybe you should have told that the Vatican and all the Popes who chose the kings of their servant kingdoms
    We are talking about religion, not specifically the Vatican. If the Popes were involved in political struggles that does not invalidate the entire goal of religion, be it Catholicism or any other religion, which is strictly between man and God.

    Looking at Catholicism however, the Church is seen as the mystical body of Christ on Earth and the salvific vehicle of mankind. It is for this reason that the Church wished to spread itself, not out of some sort of wish to control the world but to save it. We have to look at things in the way that these men did, not through our eyes.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    You even say you prefer the Islamic theocracy (because in the west, the caliphatic, eh sorry, papal theocracy crumbled), which is an outright oxymoron to what you said above. Either religion is an entirely personal thing (then religion doesnt have a place in politics) or it is a political tool, and then you have, can possibly have, a theocracy. You explicitely said you want a theocracy, so of course religion is a political tool.
    The purpose of a theocracy is to ensure that society conforms to ideals of religion rather than becoming a society of degeneracy that would prevent spiritual realization on a wide scale, such as the modern West. So in this sense it is using politics as a tool toward the goal of man's drawing closer to God, not simply a political tool for its own sake.

    In any case, what you are brining up isn't what I was talking about. You treat religion merely as a political or social tool and ignore its fundamental purpose, which is enlightenment.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    I just think, in contrast to you, that we Germanics should eventually find our own tool for that, one that functions in line with our nature, that is a product of our culture and spirituality and not that of a foreign people, based on our values not that of a foreign people.
    It already exists. It's called traditional Christianity. Christianity as it existed in the West became Europeanized over the course of its history and was an expression of the Romano-Nordic spirit. The theologians, philosophers, mystics, and men that contributed to the development of the culture and spirituality of traditional Christianity were Europeans, including Germanic people.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Race and ethnicity is the foundation of culture, of the way a people approaches life and the divine, and politics is there to serve and advance the culture and the people.
    If this is the case, how can we deny that race and ethnicity did not play a fundamental role in the development of Christian culture in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    No, I just say that christianity obviously is whatever people wish it was, that everyone puts into it whatever they think serves their very wordly goals, but is entirely void in itself. As such, why call yourself even christian, implying that you belong to a group, when this "group" is so diverse that they cant even agree on the very basics of the belief they allegedly share? I'm pretty sure that you'd likelier agree with a Hindu or Muslim on questions of the "nature of god/divine" than with a random christian from your district.
    There was once unity in the Christian West, but this was destroyed in the Protestant reformation. Men will always disagree with each other. Let us apply the same logic to Germanic preservation. We both agree that it is a good idea, but we don't agree on much else. Why even call ourselves Germanic preservationists? Is the entire idea invalidated because of our disagreements?

  7. #237
    New Member DepthOfOctober's Avatar
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    I dont see it as a problem if the Germanic Muslim doesnt support nonwhite Muslims in Europe , or marries some nonwhite Muslim. As long as Europe remains ethnically European it doesnt matter what someones spiritual beliefs are and as long as they dont force their beliefs on fellow Germanics.

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    Senior Member Angus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    Perhaps the Islamic world, for all the problems it has, potentially has cause to call us backward and barbaric. Not because of lawlessness, lack of material comfort, or whatever else a modern Westerner would categorize as barbaric, but because of our current lifestyle and civilization which is entirely devoid of the sacred and has degenerated into a mere economic system for material gain with no higher purpose or order.
    Which religion has allowed our society to become this way? Christianity. I doubt we would be in the same predicament if Christianity never took root in Europe.


    I believe I read somewhere that the Arabic word "Ilm" or knowledge is the second most used word in the Quran aside from "Allah" and that education, intelligence, and knowledge (especially of God) is the one the single most important values in Islam.
    I for one would much prefer to live in a theocratic Islamic society with conservative, traditional values and society geared toward the sacred
    You're an American, so I doubt you are truly aware of the situation in Europe regarding Islam. I suggest you come to Europe, take a good look at the Muslims here and see for yourself just how educated and knowledgeable they are. From your pro-Islam posts, I think it's safe to say you'll be surprised at just how wrong you are.

    I'd also like to share this article I just found (it's from today). I found this to be particularly interesting considering the topic of the thread.
    Two German Muslim converts admit terrorism offences: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16861750
    Germanics who converted to Islam who just wanted to be good Muslims and blow something up . Sorry, but being pro-Germanic and being a Muslim isn't possible.

  9. #239
    Senior Member Plantagenet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olav View Post
    Which religion has allowed our society to become this way? Christianity. I doubt we would be in the same predicament if Christianity never took root in Europe.
    So the disappearance and replacement of Christian values for secular and culturally Marxist values is the fault of Christianity? This line of thought doesn't make sense to me.

    If you want know what allowed our society to become this way, study the so-called Enlightenment era and their philosophers. They are the root cause and origin of most of the poisonous intellectual movements that have put us in this predicament today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Olav View Post
    You're an American, so I doubt you are truly aware of the situation in Europe regarding Islam. I suggest you come to Europe, take a good look at the Muslims here and see for yourself just how educated and knowledgeable they are. From your pro-Islam posts, I think it's safe to say you'll be surprised at just how wrong you are.
    I am not pro-Islam per say, but what you are talking about is Muslims, who are usually of Arabic, Turkish, or North African descent, not Islam itself. Again, would your average Germanic Christian be of the same level knowledge as your average African Christian?

    As to the post about what type of society I would rather live in, I think people are misunderstanding what I am saying. I would rather live in a theocratic Islamic society, a traditional Christian monarchy, a Buddhist empire, or whatever other religion you wish that was categorized by traditional values over the culturally Marxist modern West. This isn't s statement supporting Islam, but is a statement supporting the traditional world over modernity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Olav View Post
    Sorry, but being pro-Germanic and being a Muslim isn't possible.
    So you are saying it is impossible to believe in the one God of the Qu'ran and also be pro-Germanic? How do the various Islamic nationalities maintain their national identity or be nationalistic if this is impossible?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    I am not pro-Islam per say, but what you are talking about is Muslims, who are usually of Arabic, Turkish, or North African descent, not Islam itself.
    Islam is the Muslims. A religion can't be totally disassociated from its followers, because they're the ones who carry the religion and spread it. The main reason why I'm not fanatically against Christianity is because most Christians in the West are ordinary white folks. Islam is the religion of immigrants, and if Europeans convert to that, they'll be associating with immigrants.

    As to the post about what type of society I would rather live in, I think people are misunderstanding what I am saying. I would rather live in a theocratic Islamic society, a traditional Christian monarchy, a Buddhist empire, or whatever other religion you wish that was categorized by traditional values over the culturally Marxist modern West. This isn't s statement supporting Islam, but is a statement supporting the traditional world over modernity.
    This black-and-white thinking gets really tiresome. None of us like the modern West, and how it turned out, but that doesn't mean we have to swing to the other ridiculous extreme and support the idea of Islamic theocracy. I have no idea what a "Germanic Muslim nation" would be like, and I really don't want to find out (especially with the position of women in that grotesque religion). At least the modern West, for all its faults, can be improved.

    So you are saying it is impossible to believe in the one God of the Qu'ran and also be pro-Germanic?
    Yes.

    How do the various Islamic nationalities maintain their national identity or be nationalistic if this is impossible?
    Because the Koran is made by and for Middle-Easterners, and the majority of Muslims are either Middle-Easterners or culturally Arabized. We're none of those, fortunately enough.

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