View Poll Results: Can you be a Muslim and be a Germanic preservationist too?

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Thread: Islam & Germanic Identity

  1. #221
    Senior Member Plantagenet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Storm Saxon View Post
    Is this supposed to be a joke? I've actually seen Arab Muslims before, in their natural habitat. Easily among the most primitive and anti-intellectual people on the planet, and I don't see backwardness as a "virtue". I think the European members of Skadi, who have to deal with Muslim immigrants in their everyday lives, share my negative opinion of these people.
    Is a Germanic Christian the same as an African Christian? Does their differences lie at fault with Christianity itself or with the genetic/racial differences of these people? If Christianity is against theft and a Christian steals, is the entire religion's idea of being against theft negated?

    This thread is primarily concerned with Islam the religion, not Arabs. In any case, I have sincere doubts that Arabs are more anti-intellectual than your average African. What is truly lamentable is that even the modern West is quite anti-intellectual. How many people on Facebook or other social networking sites have listed under their favorite books "None!" or "Who reads these days?"

  2. #222
    Senior Member Alfadur's Avatar
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    This has nothing to do with Islam itself, and is quite off-topic, but here it goes:

    Quote Originally Posted by Elessar View Post
    No, that's why the Indians fleshed out Vedic pollytheism into Vedantic philosophy, nondualistic yet undeniably pantheistic (and later why the Buddha founded his philosophy, a drastic reform of hinduism), that's why Christ set out to reform Judaic principle into a more concise all encompasing theology (thus fufilling the Biblical prophecy). And thus why the Kings of Europe sought to convert the pagans, reflesh, and unify.
    I guess that's one way of looking at it - some view monotheism as a step forward (since it created an all-encompassing worldview), while others view it as a step backwards. I usually tend to belong to the latter group. Generally, the extreme monotheistic religions from the Middle-East tend to become mental prisons and discourage any thinking outside the box (which surely is the specialty of the Aryan "solar race" that we are ). I believe their negative aspects outweigh the positive ones. But this is just a philosophical difference between us, really, since nobody can prove that polytheism is "better".

    Neopagans can't hold water when they don't believe in "God" or Gods proper, when replace it with the "psyche" and the "self"(ego), what separates the Heathen from the LaVeyan? Being folkish? You don't have to be religious to be folkish.
    I'm not a neo-pagan, as you can see on my profile. I am atheist and folkish. And no, I do not subscribe to LaVey's self-centered ideology either - I'm more of a collectivist, not an ultra-individualist like LaVey or today's objectivists. Actually, I believe we're far too selfish and individualistic in the modern "Western world", and this is one of the main factors that destroys any ethnic cohesion among us.

    It's no surprise Neopagan "theology" is influenced by the nontheistic age it was born in.
    All theology is influenced by its time and place. It's impossible to create a new religion out of nowhere, and even moreso to copy one from the ancient past. For example, the ancients used to believe that storms and thunder were literally caused by Thor riding across the clouds, simply because they had no way of knowing better. Now we have science and do know better, so obviously neo-paganism has changed in that way. (Keep in mind, I'm not even a neo-pagan myself.)

    I'm not an "Evolist" , I do however find his philosophy interesting, and truthful in some regards. Pagan Indo-Europeans dont hold a monopoly on polytheism either, nor do Christians/Abrahamics with monotheism. Right to Rule is ordained by God, down through the centuries, from Mesopotamia to Her Majesty the Queen.
    Indeed, it's an old Indo-European tradition to view the King as divinely appointed, as the direct link between the tribe and their gods.

    Was it then these "free thinking, power-seeking" induviduals would go on to found our Modern Kali Yuga zeitgeist?
    No, not really. Mad egalitarianism, Cultural Marxism and our modern-day social decay is, historically speaking, very recent. The Western drive for progress and knowledge, the solar "will to power", has always been in our nature. For better or worse.

    Ideally, there should be a balance between the stabilizing force which keeps society in harmony (with your preferred one being Christianity), and the constant, amoral striving for knowledge. However, that's best left for another thread.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    If a Germanic person, or a European person for that matter, converted to Islam, would you consider him or her a traitor? Even if such a person still held views of Germanic preservation?
    Any views he might have held will probably soon disappear after his first visit to Mecca. Or for that matter when he gains a greater understanding of Islam. Then he will start to realize those two views are incompatible. For the simple fact that Islam has been about Arab supremacy from practically the beginning.
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  4. #224
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet
    Today, in a generalized sense, you may be correct. Christianity has become degenerated, liberalized, rationalistic, emotional, and lost much of its original vitality. This of course doesn't mean that Christianity is still without spiritual value, I would contend that among Traditional Catholics and Eastern Orthodox this spiritual vigor is still quite strong.
    Did you ever had a look on the countries where either form still "rules"? They are backward, full of superstitions, life is fully dictated by church services, people are sheeple, unable to think for themselves or to get themselves out of their misery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet
    However, are you saying that Islam always has had a much higher spiritual value, than say the Christianity of the Middle Ages?
    Yes. Islam was always about the advancing of the Arab race, spiritually and power wise. Islam has grown out of a christian environment, it is the antagonistic reaction to a religion that set on to dissolve the folkish outlook on humankind.

    Islam understood that spiritual growth and development can only set on from a folkish foundation, that what christianity denies outright. Islam is only "universal" for some centuries. They still do have the concept of various "Houses" though, and the core is still Arabic supremacy. To a degree losened from its Arabic racial foundation, with strict cultural education to Arabic culture where Islam takes over though.

    Christianity, on the other hand, cares neither about race nor culture, and it certainly doesnt care about advancement of either. It was a political tool in and for a multi-racial empire, losened from any foundation.

    Though it comes with a weird spin in it, which though is too a part of the core "belief": that of the chosen people. Which is not Europeans, or Arabs, or Asians or whoever, but the Jews. And regardless of how much you twist it or ignore it, or wish that "god" had changed his mind, nothing of this can be found in the book you worship.


    Though when you believe that race and culture plays a role, also in regards to spirituality, then it follows logically that neither christianity nor Islam can be of use for Europeans, because both preach the supremacy of another race.

    Unfortunately, that something is in itself wrong, does not prevent people from believing in it nonetheless. So that christianity was an unfortunate part of our history has no bearing whatsoever on it still being wrong for us.

    When you want spiritual growth for Germanics, then you need a religion that has Germanic supremacy in mind, and has a Germanic cultural and racial foundation. Only in this setting spirituality will have a value for Germanics.


    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet
    Perhaps the Islamic world, for all the problems it has, potentially has cause to call us backward and barbaric. Not because of lawlessness, lack of material comfort, or whatever else a modern Westerner would categorize as barbaric, but because of our current lifestyle and civilization which is entirely devoid of the sacred and has degenerated into a mere economic system for material gain with no higher purpose or order.
    I know you dont want to hear it, but the christian worship of Jewish supremacy, even if they are not aware of that, or even turned against the Jews as people, did had an effect on us as a people in that it turned us into "cosmopolitans", multikult loving and wanting to save everyone (except ourselves) from materialistic misery. It is indeed a sickness that came with christianity, and all the streams that you decry are results of christian values and morals. Because they are still Jewish values and morals. How much Germanic are christians still, despite them being christian? Are they culturally Germanic? No, the more christian they are the more they worship alien gods, and maybe even worse, likewise alien philosophies. Someone who delves in Greek philosophy (and the worshipped period of Hellenistic Athens is already heavily Jewish influenced) and finds his foundation therein, is no longer Germanic, neither by culture, nor by thought, nor by values. In his worship of "ascetic" values, he even tames his boiling blood that should revolt against all this alienness to and incompatibility with his instincts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet
    I for one would much prefer to live in a theocratic Islamic society with conservative, traditional values and society geared toward the sacred...
    Yes, for some reason, you wish to have back the "theocratic" dictatorship of superstitious priests, who sacrifice their own people for the glory of god, lead wars upon wars to "liberate" Jerusalem while your own country goes down in a multiracial hell. You, for some reason, believe that this would be something to strife for, not realising that except for some superstitious monks hiding themselves from the real world in their monasteries, no one, including no war-leading pope or king of that multiracial hellhole, gave a shit about people, about spirituality, about life conditions. You see the "glorious" leadership in their castles, but you dont want to see the starving populace around these castles. You see the "glorious" knights fighting for Israel, but you dont want to see the misery and death they created on their crusades in Europe. You see the "glorious" cathedrals, but you dont see the cruelty of the priests inside, when they shut down the doors of the cathedrals from the poverty outside. You see the gold and fine art, but you dont want to see that this gold costed literally millions of lives, that this gold has been quenched out from Germanic lives and lifelyhood. Our blood. Our race. But what does it matter, after all, in the quest for the "glory of a Jewish god", right.

    I know that Americans have troubles with the "extremism" of taking a third position, they have been trained to see black and white, democrats and republicans, right and left, and consequently, they swing themselves from one extremist position to the other, because the current is not good. In that I would agree, we all here agree, that the current state of the world and in particular our lands is not good. But the former, the theocratic dictatorship that gave a shit about our people, our lands, our spirituality was not good either. It had on various levels devastating effects, most importantly on our race, on the quality of our genetics.

    We dont have use for either. We need a spirituality, and a worldview and values that aim to advance us, who help us distinguish between us and all the other "thems", who put ourselves into the center of thinking, living, being. Us, not anyone else. A worldview that brings forth a culture that advances us, that has the racial bonds of Germanics in its heart.

    It follows from there that neither christianity nor islam can be the solution. Christianity is part of the problem, so it cannot be the solution anyway. And in fact, monotheism cannot be a solution either. It is, like its religious products, an alien concept and will not contribute anything of value to Germanic awakening.
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  5. #225
    Senior Member Olavssønn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plantagenet View Post
    If a Germanic person, or a European person for that matter, converted to Islam, would you consider him or her a traitor? Even if such a person still held views of Germanic preservation?
    I think that would depend a bit on whether he was actively a part of the immigrant-dominated muslim-community. Then he would definitely have chosen another side. It would be less serious if he only believed in a very mild version of Islam in private, but then again, how would that make him a genuin muslim, as Islam is in itself rather dominated by goals of religious conquest and Islamization?

    If so, what in particular about conversion to Islam would make you think less of them?
    If the convert was really serious about the principles of Germanic or European preservation and naturally wanted to protect the homeland of his people from alien infiltration, how could this work in harmony with a wish for the spread of Islam in his homeland? I would see this merely as just another way of distancing himself from his organic roots, instead of working on strengthening Europes natural heritage and building something great upon this. This attitude is obviously one consequence of the modern, individualistic, rootless condition of European society, but I don't see the idea of reshaping Europe in the image of an imported, Middle-Eastern religion as any solution to the problem.

    For Western Civilization's future, do you see secular atheism and the current socio-religious outlook held by the West to be superior than a conversion to Islam?
    Well, that's a hard question. It is apparent that the current ideological-cultural situation of Europe is leading to huge problems (non-European immigration being on of them), and for the health of our people and our culture, something has to be changed. But I don't see Islam as a change that would strengthen the natural identity and heritage of the European peoples. It would rather be a new process of destroying European uniqueness and merely making us an extension of Islamic culture rather than a true European culture.

    If not, what do you suggest should be the religion of the future for European civilization?
    I personally think a strong Folkish identity is more important than total religious unity for the health and survival of the various peoples of Europe.
    But I do still think that the purebred materialist outlook with which we today view the world is harmful in various ways.

  6. #226
    Senior Member Plantagenet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Did you ever had a look on the countries where either form still "rules"? They are backward, full of superstitions, life is fully dictated by church services, people are sheeple, unable to think for themselves or to get themselves out of their misery.
    Yeah, especially when compared to the free thinking atheistic and culturally Marxist West right?

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Though it comes with a weird spin in it, which though is too a part of the core "belief": that of the chosen people. Which is not Europeans, or Arabs, or Asians or whoever, but the Jews. And regardless of how much you twist it or ignore it, or wish that "god" had changed his mind, nothing of this can be found in the book you worship.
    In Judaism the Jews are the chosen people, in Christianity the Church/Christians are the chosen people. Perhaps you should actually become acquainted with a religion before you make false claims and embarrass yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Though when you believe that race and culture plays a role, also in regards to spirituality, then it follows logically that neither christianity nor Islam can be of use for Europeans, because both preach the supremacy of another race.
    Neither do actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Unfortunately, that something is in itself wrong, does not prevent people from believing in it nonetheless. So that christianity was an unfortunate part of our history has no bearing whatsoever on it still being wrong for us.
    And you are the representative of the entire Germanic race? You speak for what is right or wrong for all of us? Interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    When you want spiritual growth for Germanics, then you need a religion that has Germanic supremacy in mind, and has a Germanic cultural and racial foundation. Only in this setting spirituality will have a value for Germanics.
    No you don't. Religion is about man and his relationship to God and the cosmos. No religion is about racial supremacy except for maybe Judaism.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    I know you dont want to hear it, but the christian worship of Jewish supremacy, even if they are not aware of that, or even turned against the Jews as people, did had an effect on us as a people in that it turned us into "cosmopolitans", multikult loving and wanting to save everyone (except ourselves) from materialistic misery. It is indeed a sickness that came with christianity, and all the streams that you decry are results of christian values and morals. Because they are still Jewish values and morals. How much Germanic are christians still, despite them being christian? Are they culturally Germanic? No, the more christian they are the more they worship alien gods, and maybe even worse, likewise alien philosophies. Someone who delves in Greek philosophy (and the worshipped period of Hellenistic Athens is already heavily Jewish influenced) and finds his foundation therein, is no longer Germanic, neither by culture, nor by thought, nor by values. In his worship of "ascetic" values, he even tames his boiling blood that should revolt against all this alienness to and incompatibility with his instincts.
    I usually don't lower myself to insults, and I know you don't want to hear it, but you are a raving lunatic with little to no knowledge of history or religion and it makes me question why I even bother replying to you. Here is a tip: get rid of your hatred because it is blinding you.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Yes, for some reason, you wish to have back the "theocratic" dictatorship of superstitious priests, who sacrifice their own people for the glory of god, lead wars upon wars to "liberate" Jerusalem while your own country goes down in a multiracial hell.
    Really? I don't recall saying any of that. I said I would rather live in a theocratic Islamic society with traditional values than the modern culturally Marxist West. That's all I said, and I stand by that claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    You, for some reason, believe that this would be something to strife for, not realising that except for some superstitious monks hiding themselves from the real world in their monasteries, no one, including no war-leading pope or king of that multiracial hellhole, gave a shit about people, about spirituality, about life conditions.
    Once again you prove that your conception of history is essentially identical to the Marxist one. And are you seriously saying that medieval Europe was a multiracial hellhole? Compared to what, the modern West? Are you sane?

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    You see the "glorious" leadership in their castles, but you dont want to see the starving populace around these castles. You see the "glorious" knights fighting for Israel, but you dont want to see the misery and death they created on their crusades in Europe. You see the "glorious" cathedrals, but you dont see the cruelty of the priests inside, when they shut down the doors of the cathedrals from the poverty outside. You see the gold and fine art, but you dont want to see that this gold costed literally millions of lives, that this gold has been quenched out from Germanic lives and lifelyhood. Our blood. Our race. But what does it matter, after all, in the quest for the "glory of a Jewish god", right.
    First off, the medieval peasant lived a fairly good life actually, certainly much better than your average prole in the post-Industrial world. The myth of dire poverty of the Middle Ages is just that, a myth, perpetuated by the Enlightenment era and Marxist historiography you love so much. Not to say that there wasn't poverty, because poverty has always existed. What is most pathetic is that you fail to realize that the primary institution providing relief for the poor was the Church, whose monasteries and hospitals were among the only places the poor could find solace.

    Secondly, there is no such thing as a Jewish God, or a German God, or a Japanese God, or anything else according to Christianity, or really any religion except for Judaism. There is only the one God, who is the God of all creatures and the creator the entire universe.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    We dont have use for either. We need a spirituality, and a worldview and values that aim to advance us, who help us distinguish between us and all the other "thems", who put ourselves into the center of thinking, living, being. Us, not anyone else. A worldview that brings forth a culture that advances us, that has the racial bonds of Germanics in its heart.
    You need to really stop politicizing religion or trying to use spirituality as a political or racial tool. That is not the goal of religion, and it never has been. The only goal of religion is for man to grow closer to God or the Divine. What a man's political views may be are separate from religion, hence why we can find both Christian liberals and Christian fascists, Christian democrats and Christian monarchists, Christian racialists and Christian multiculturalists. Focusing in on the ones who you dislike and ignoring the one's that agree with the view points of a forum such as Skadi to further your argument is intellectual dishonesty.

  7. #227
    Senior Member Herr Weigelt's Avatar
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    One question I pose to whites is why did Europe and America become a multi-racial, multi-cultural cesspool only after they rejected Christianity? Why did the emphasis on the nuclear family and rearing children become unimportant only after they got rid of Christianity? Why did sick behavior like homosexuality, drug use, and even toleration and non-punishment of heinous crimes like murder and rape become the norm after, or post-Christianity? The same negative trends happening in Europe are happening in America. How are we whites supposed to be a superior race and culture when we can't even take the moral high ground? The islamics are inferior because they do what their religion tells them to do, but Christians are superior when they do what their religion tells them to do.
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  8. #228
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    I don't see why anyone would want to be a Muslim. All religions have negative aspects but Islam has the most. There seems to be nothing remotely good about it.
    Proud to be Germanic.

    Even though my ancestry is English, Germany is my favorite country.

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Weigelt View Post
    One question I pose to whites is why did Europe and America become a multi-racial, multi-cultural cesspool only after they rejected Christianity? Why did the emphasis on the nuclear family and rearing children become unimportant only after they got rid of Christianity? Why did sick behavior like homosexuality, drug use, and even toleration and non-punishment of heinous crimes like murder and rape become the norm after, or post-Christianity? The same negative trends happening in Europe are happening in America. How are we whites supposed to be a superior race and culture when we can't even take the moral high ground? The islamics are inferior because they do what their religion tells them to do, but Christians are superior when they do what their religion tells them to do.
    Last I looked America and Europe are still very Christian, it being the number one religion. Christian values and weakness have ultimately led to this and it's replacement by a vacuous and materialistic lifestyle. Those things you list are not the norm, but they are on the rise with it's replacement via full blown Cultural Marxism. I'm sure also we can list plenty of examples of Christians engaging in such acts over the centuries. But of course they won't be 'True' Christians if they did something bad. Easy get out clause, no?

    How are the whites supposed to be the superior race when the focus of their spirituality is the God of another?

  10. #230
    Senior Member Sigyn's Avatar
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    No, you can't be a Pro-Germanic Muslim. It's a religion which is hostile to us, and Alfadur was right that it's very much the religion of the immigrants (meaning, that it has ethnic aspects). Also, you only need to look at the chaotic state of all Muslim countries to understand why I don't want to see that religion take hold in Sweden, or anywhere else in Europe for that matter.

    (Of course, there is the argument that Christianity didn't change the Germanic spirit, so Islam can't either, but I don't really buy that. If Islam became our state religion overnight, a lot of things would change for the worse.)

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