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Thread: The statistical invisibility of Islamist 'terrorism' in Europe

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyhawk View Post
    Very true , which also confirms the view that western government state terrorism abroad leads to retaliatory attacks at home.
    Al-Qaeda planned to assassinate the Pope just because it hates Christianity.
    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/...308581808.html

    Which leaves us with the question who poses the greater threat to national security , muslims or our own governments actions and interactions with them ?
    In my opinion the only correct course of action is to stop all Muslim immigration and deport those who are already here. This would make the execution of terrorist attacks very difficult and the threat of nuking Mecca and Medina could be an effective deterrent.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rassenpapst View Post
    Al-Qaeda planned to assassinate the Pope just because it hates Christianity.
    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/...308581808.html
    Al-Qaeda are not representative of most muslims living in western nations ( like Timothy mcVeigh is not representative of most americans ) and any gathering support for them in muslim/arab circles is down to the actions of western governments who currently occupy two heavily muslim populated countries and have designs on a third.
    In my opinion the only correct course of action is to stop all Muslim immigration and deport those who are already here. This would make the execution of terrorist attacks very difficult and the threat of nuking Mecca and Medina could be an effective deterrent.
    So why hasn't this happened ? If our governments care for our safety against terrorist attack surely this is an obvious conclusion to draw.

    However , I disagree with nuclear capability serving as a deterrent to terrorists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyhawk View Post
    Al-Qaeda are not representative of most muslims living in western nations ( like Timothy mcVeigh is not representative of most americans ) and any gathering support for them in muslim/arab circles is down to the actions of western governments who currently occupy two heavily muslim populated countries and have designs on a third.
    True but it is impossible to 100% accurately identify the Muslims who are terrorists (with reasonable cost). Deporting all Muslims would have a positive net effect.

    Also, terrorist organizations do not actually need much support in Islamic countries to carry out attacks. Some angry young Muslim men will always gravitate towards extremism regardless of Western actions. A small group of suicidal terrorists can cause huge damage.

    So why hasn't this happened ? If our governments care for our safety against terrorist attack surely this is an obvious conclusion to draw.
    Because the governments oppose "racism" and deporting all Muslims would be "racist".

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyhawk View Post
    I notice you neglected to comment on the state terrorism I mentioned in the post, but that doesn't come as a suprise. Many people in the west choose to ignore the fact that the war on terror has greatly increased the risk of terrorism from Islamic extremists. Something that the governments of the west ( mainly the US and UK ) are well aware of and obviously see as an acceptable side effect in their promotion of world domination .

    Not worth mentioning in a debate on terrorism , especially with regard to Islamic terrorists ?

    Anyway, as I said I think this debate deserves its own place , but would appreciate you airing any views you may have on the terrorism I was refering to earlier
    Well really, my point was that anti-muslim feelings are based on much more than the occasional nail bomb in Tel Aviv. Even if specific acts of religious terrorism get the majority of mention, it is a way to communicate the message "muslims are a violent people" in a more politically correct way.

    As to the circle of violence between Israel and countries with zionist dominated foreign policies on one side and muslims on the other, I don't think you can hold either side blameless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rassenpapst View Post
    True but it is impossible to 100% accurately identify the Muslims who are terrorists (with reasonable cost). Deporting all Muslims would have a positive net effect.
    It is quite difficult to identify terrorists , but considering how much money is spent on killing muslims in their own countries the financial cost of identifying possible terrorists at home should not be seen as a potential area for cost saving , imo. Maybe we could take some of the cash back off the multinational companies currently filling their boots in the likes of Iraq to pay for it



    Also, terrorist organizations do not actually need much support in Islamic countries to carry out attacks. Some angry young Muslim men will always gravitate towards extremism regardless of Western actions. A small group of suicidal terrorists can cause huge damage.
    I agree there will always be extremists in every aspect of human beliefs , whether that is religious or political. But I think , and the agencies who study this confirm it , that the actions of the west have had a very big impact on the growing numbers of islamic extremists .

    Besides you cannot expect to declare war on/occupy a country/countries and just expect the people of that country to suffer in silence. A small group of suicidal ( ask why ) terrorists can cause much damage but nowhere near the damage a massive , high tech , occupying army like what we see in Iraq can ( and has ).

    Because the governments oppose "racism" and deporting all Muslims would be "racist".
    Mmmm , seems like a pretty weak arguement. I know here in England if we deported all the muslims the national health system would completely collapse leading to many more deaths than the negligible threat of islamic terrorism . The politics of fear shouldn't destract us from such obvious facts ,imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordOfTheVistula View Post
    Well really, my point was that anti-muslim feelings are based on much more than the occasional nail bomb in Tel Aviv. Even if specific acts of religious terrorism get the majority of mention, it is a way to communicate the message "muslims are a violent people" in a more politically correct way.
    I know there is more to the anti muslim feelings held by some westerners than just terrorism. But the nightmarish view of Islam and muslims is a cyclic event running throughout history. We are at war with them , they are bad , we are not at war with them and they are not so bad. The same as everyone else.

    The same ,for example , can be said of the view held by the british of germans during the two world wars. Again down to propaganda.

    The message that muslims are violent people is only valid , imo , when we add the obvious ending to that statement. Like every other kind of people.

    The carnage of two world wars cannot be attributed to muslims. So why should they be viewed as more violent than anyone else ?

    If the war on terror leads us to ( as I suspect may well be the case ) war with China , Russia etc no doubt we will be hearing of violent russian extremists and manic deranged taoists who wish the whole world a taoist superstate.


    As to the circle of violence between Israel and countries with zionist dominated foreign policies on one side and muslims on the other, I don't think you can hold either side blameless.
    Not blameless but surely you can see that one side is very much more pro-active than the other .

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    Crime statistics aside, I'd say it is quite telling that everywhere in which Islam comes in contact with another culture, there is an ongoing violent conflict: Nigeria, Sudan, Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya, Kashmir, Timor, Phillipinnes, Malaysia, Indonesia, Sinkiang, and so on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordOfTheVistula View Post
    Crime statistics aside, I'd say it is quite telling that everywhere in which Islam comes in contact with another culture, there is an ongoing violent conflict: Nigeria, Sudan, Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya, Kashmir, Timor, Phillipinnes, Malaysia, Indonesia, Sinkiang, and so on.
    An even bigger list could be compiled concerning Christian countries and their abuses of other cultures/countries. You live in one and you still don't see the irony in your post.

    To clarify my position , all monotheistic religions have a brutal history of suppression and murder , one might even include genocide in the list , why single any one out as more violent than the other ?

    They all could be accused , with much justification imo , of having designs for world domination. As an Atheist myself I have no vested interest in promotion of one over another. The problem I have is with the manufacture of consent for , again in my opinion , a bogus War on Terror.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyhawk View Post
    An even bigger list could be compiled concerning Christian countries and their abuses of other cultures/countries. You live in one and you still don't see the irony in your post.
    Generally I see religion as outdated, but the difference between Islam and Christianity is that Islam is a militant expression of a foreign culture, whereas Christianity at least sometimes takes the field to uphold the traditions of my culture (for example, fighting bans on public displays Christmas trees), and in the past when Christianity and Islam clashed, Christianity was the expression of European nationalism, whereas Islam being the expression of a foreign invading force. Additionally, Christianity played a sizable role in conquest and settlement of foreign lands by European forces, which eventually created a place where Europeans could go to escape the oppressive feudal/class stratified system which dominated Europe and yet maintain their culture.

    As far as modern day goes, I don't have much use for either Christianity or Islam, but I view Islam as more of a threat, or at least the culture which it is a part of.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordOfTheVistula View Post
    Generally I see religion as outdated, but the difference between Islam and Christianity is that Islam is a militant expression of a foreign culture, whereas Christianity at least sometimes takes the field to uphold the traditions of my culture (for example, fighting bans on public displays Christmas trees),
    You still don't see it do you?

    The cannon and the cross policies of the christian church in colonizing both north and south America are exactly what you are describing when you refer to " militant expression of a foreign culture."

    As for the christmas tree

    I remember a thread on another forum about how a school in England decided to cancel a performance , by the children , of the story of the three little pigs because the school hierarchy were affraid it might offend Muslims.

    As you can imagine the board was in uproar over , as Elmer J Fudd would say , those pesky Muslims. Moaning about the three little pigs. How dare they!!:
    After many posts of anti muslim sentiments it was pointed out that no muslims had actually complained about it.
    It would appear that because europeans and americans ( for Ossie ) are too scared to tackle their leaders about the ridiculous situation with regards to PC doctrine it is easier to blame muslims eyes:

    Additionally, Christianity played a sizable role in conquest and settlement of foreign lands by European forces, which eventually created a place where Europeans could go to escape the oppressive feudal/class stratified system which dominated Europe and yet maintain their culture.
    Unbelievable. You know this but you don't see the hypocrisy in your arguement

    As far as modern day goes, I don't have much use for either Christianity or Islam, but I view Islam as more of a threat, or at least the culture which it is a part of.
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