View Poll Results: So?

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  • The Dutch are Low German

    91 60.26%
  • The Low Germans are Dutch

    23 15.23%
  • Neither

    26 17.22%
  • Other

    11 7.28%
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Thread: Are the Dutch Low German or Are the Low Germans Dutch? / Should the Netherlands Join Germany?

  1. #171
    Senior Member Mjolnir's Avatar
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    I have opted for "yes" in this post. Being Dutch and being aware of our history as a nation, but moreover as a people. The Netherlands is just like Germany is today, a coalition of Germanic regions (just like Flanders by the way, in my opinion).

    If you consider the ancient ties with Germany, which go back to the early settlers along the Rhine in the Netherlands, from the Holey Roman Empire to the Dutch being allied to Germany almost the whole period from 1600-1914 it is not a big step thinking the Dutch always considered themselves as Germanics and tied to the Greater Germany. Without giving up their own souvereign state. Our National Anthem states "Am I of German blood?", our royal family is mostly of German descent. The tide turned when Germany attacked The Netherlands (which felt for most Dutch like a friend stabbing us in the back). From there on the Dutch didn t want to have anything to do with Germany. A couple of years ago there was even a public debate if the sentence in our Anthem "Ben ik van Duitsche bloed" was still appealing to people and if it should' nt be removed.

    I think there are little differences in culture, art, genetics, language between the Germans, Flemish and Dutch. I would therefor prefer a Union of Germanic brothers (all germanic countries). Each within its own realm, but with a combined heritage, mutual goals and with a strong political influence in this world. I think the EU is a joke. I, personally, seriously have nothing in common with someone from eastern or southern Europe. Our goals differ especially.

    More on a personal note. I have read the posts of my countryman from Overijssel (sorry heb je naam niet gelezen gezien ik je posts interessanter vond) in this thread and I can subscribe to most of his views about the leftwing media and mass immigration from outside Europe.

  2. #172
    Senior Member White Africa's Avatar
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    I don't think the Dutch are German, just like the Anglo-Americans are not British. Their own national sovereignty and the time apart have made them different.

  3. #173
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    the dutch are germans are different. especially in the south of germany. north germany and the dutch are similar to an extent but never should the dutch be a part of that bavarian germany.

  4. #174
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    low germans?

    Low German is a dialect of Northern Germany, and also is the branch of Germanic languages including English, Dutch, Flemish, etc...

  5. #175
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    This is my view of a combined Germany after population transfers and such.
    Divided into 7 Autonomous regions.
    Red: Greater Bavaria, which includes current day Austria, Bozen, Czech Republic, Slovenia, Silesia, and Bavaria. This population transfer requires moving all 9 million Germans from Baden-Wuttenburg who speak bavarian Germans and leaving the Alemaic Germans. Moving 7 million from Bavaria and 1 million from Austria into the new territories. This gives 17 million Germans.

    Green: Alemania: includes German switzerland, Swabia, and Alsace (France) the populatio transfer in this case will be from switzerland to France and Swabia. 1 million Swabians about 300-500 thousand in Alsace and 4.6 in Switzerland.

    Brown: Saxon Transylvania: Population transfer of 15 million from the Blue area

    Black: Prussia: Population transfer from the west to the east. May include Danes, Lithuanians, and Dutch immigrants as well.

    Yellow: Dietsland: Belgium and Holland

    Purple: New Dietsland: involves population transfer to croatia of Dutch people from Yellow region.

    Blue: Saxony: involves population transfer to Mosselle (see brown)


  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siegfried View Post
    What do you think?
    The Dutch are similar to the Low Germans, but they are not Germans. The language is different.

  7. #177
    Grand Member Rodskarl Dubhgall's Avatar
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    It works both ways. I could see Jutes, Angles, Saxons and Frisians all in one country, with Franks, Swabians, Thuringians and Lombards in another. The differences don't seem workable through compromise. Niederdeutsche seem to be treated as objects of paternalistic fantasy, like minorities and not legitimate voices deserving self-government.

  8. #178
    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodskarl Dubhgall View Post
    It works both ways. I could see Jutes, Angles, Saxons and Frisians all in one country, with Franks, Swabians, Thuringians and Lombards in another. The differences don't seem workable through compromise.
    The descendants of Lombards are North Italians(well, likely to some pretty insignificant degree). Are you suggesting a union of West-South Germany and North Italy or what?

    Niederdeutsche seem to be treated as objects of paternalistic fantasy, like minorities and not legitimate voices deserving self-government.
    Of course you have evidence for this?
    And the day they sold us out, Our hearts grew cold
    'Cause we were never asked, No brother, we were told!
    What do they know of Europe, Who only Europe know?



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  10. #179
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    If I recall correctly, in the 19th century in the USA, the word "Dutch" referred to anyone from the north German plain.

    So it included the actual Dutch and any Plattdeutsch speakers. Hence the US's Pennsylvania Dutch.

    It was basically like this up to WWI, when all things "German" became evil in the US.

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  12. #180
    Grand Member Rodskarl Dubhgall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    The descendants of Lombards are North Italians(well, likely to some pretty insignificant degree). Are you suggesting a union of West-South Germany and North Italy or what?

    Of course you have evidence for this?
    The schizophrenic nature of West Germanic tribes, is such that once they got power, Franks and Lombards conspired to defraud Frisians (abolishing their homeland from existence) and Saxons (massacring them into religious obedience) of self-government and to rule in the name of all Germans, to the point where Low German is a peasant and industrial identity and High German is an aristocratic or professional class identity. When it comes to matters of independence from foreign princes and potentates, Franks and Lombards are eager to take assistance from Romance nations, in order to maintain dominance over native Germans. They sold their souls ever since they moved onto Roman territories, rather than love the customs and fashions of their own Germanic brethren. They are the vehicle for European assimilation of Germanic tribes. This is well known. Charlemagne sealed the deal when he took the Iron Crown, but all of this is considered glorious among those of the Rhineland and Alps, no different than the modern multikulti dictum from the powers that be, all of whom have benefited from the biased standardisation of High German. It is no wonder that Low German feudalism would rather be represented among the heads of state of non-HRE establishments, whether the Netherlands in Nassau, England in Hanover, or Denmark in Pomerania, Oldenburg/Schleswig-Holstein and Sweden in Mecklenburg. None of the volks of the North could adequately be represented in a Mediterranean-favouring Alpine establishment that persecuted them worse than dogs. The Hanse were all that kept Low Germans afloat, otherwise, they'd remain enslaved on Bavarian and Austrian estates imposed from elsewhere, on the lands of their own ancestors.

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