Where is the Heaviest Concentration of Alpines?

[Ted]

Where, and I mean quite specifically, in Europe would one find the heaviest concentrations of Alpines?

Bavaria? Baden? Central France? Slovakia? I know one website estimates the centre of Alpinism to be in Luxomburg, but I don't buy that. The population sample taken was much too small to meet with strict empirical standards of research. I've also heard Sicily too, and I agree Siciily is home to many a corpulant Italian, but I believe the Alpine samples there are more likely a mixture of many things including Dinarics and Mediterraneans.

Thanks

[Timo]

West Alpines are generally around/in France. My family is from South-West Germany (Württemberg and Swaben). As for the east, I don't know for sure.

[Ted]

Can anyone give me a more specific answer to this question I posed about where the centre of Alpinism would be in Europe. I know France is mentioned often but few people specify where exactly in France Alpines would be MOST predominant. I'm also not so sure that many of these French examples are pure Alpines. I also know that the convex nasal profile and flat back of the head are common features amongst the French people, and this would suggest an element of Dinaricism to me. The same could also be said of Sicilians. Therefore, I'm wondering if the true heaviest concentration of Alpines would be in the southern German provinces of Bavaria or Baden. I would guess Baden is slightly more Alpinic than Bavaria, but again, I'm only guessing. Am I correct? Where is Alpinia, and what is it's capital city?

[Frans_Jozef]

Can anyone give me a more specific answer to this question I posed about where the centre of Alpinism would be in Europe. I know France is mentioned often but few people specify where exactly in France Alpines would be MOST predominant. I'm also not so sure that many of these French examples are pure Alpines. I also know that the convex nasal profile and flat back of the head are common features amongst the French people, and this would suggest an element of Dinaricism to me. The same could also be said of Sicilians. Therefore, I'm wondering if the true heaviest concentration of Alpines would be in the southern German provinces of Bavaria or Baden. I would guess Baden is slightly more Alpinic than Bavaria, but again, I'm only guessing. Am I correct? Where is Alpinia, and what is it's capital city?

The Parisian Basin harboured since the neolithic most of the Alpinids as well the Rhône valleys and Savoie in East France.
Brittany contains also its fair share of Alpinids, ascribed to a more primitive Lappish-looking type(including incipient mongolism), the so-called Breiz type.

[Dr. Solar Wolff]

Coon made the remark that the best place to find an example of an Alpine was a Bavarian restaurant.

[Ted]

One other thing on this Alpine inquiry. When I lived in America I resided in a city called Buffalo, New York. Besides my fellow Brits, there were also many people of Polish ancestry who lived in Buffalo as well. I was always amazed how often these people struck a very Alpine pose to their appearance. I know most Poles, and indeed most Slavs in general, are supposed to be of the Neo-Danubian phenotype, but I was amazed by how many of these people had the typical Alpine features and colouring; short, stocky builds, with wide faces, fleshy features and concave nasal profiles. Brown eyes and dark tawney complexions; straight brown hair with a propensity toward baldness in the male population appeared to be the order of the day.

Most of these people I assume were descended from the peasant stock who were recruited from southern and eastern Poland at the turn of the last century to come to Buffalo to labour and toil their lives away in the mammouth steel mills and many automobile factories located in that industrial city.

I guess then my question is this: Is the Alpine element just as strong in Eastern Europe as it is in places like France and Germany? And if so, where in particular in Eastern Europe would one find the greatest concentration of Alpines? Thanks!

[norda]

One other thing on this Alpine inquiry. When I lived in America I resided in a city called Buffalo, New York. Besides my fellow Brits, there were also many people of Polish ancestry who lived in Buffalo as well. I was always amazed how often these people struck a very Alpine pose to their appearance. I know most Poles, and indeed most Slavs in general, are supposed to be of the Neo-Danubian phenotype, but I was amazed by how many of these people had the typical Alpine features and colouring; short, stocky builds, with wide faces, fleshy features and concave nasal profiles. Brown eyes and dark tawney complexions; straight brown hair with a propensity toward baldness in the male population appeared to be the order of the day.

Most of these people I assume were descended from the peasant stock who were recruited from southern and eastern Poland at the turn of the last century to come to Buffalo to labour and toil their lives away in the mammouth steel mills and many automobile factories located in that industrial city.

I guess then my question is this: Is the Alpine element just as strong in Eastern Europe as it is in places like France and Germany? And if so, where in particular in Eastern Europe would one find the greatest concentration of Alpines? Thanks!

Indeed Czech Sudetian and Polish Western Carpathian mountains (Gorals) are part of the same “Alpine type” belt spreading from France. Eastern Carpathian Ukrainians are less Alpine and gradually Dinaric type is more common (Huzuls). Also southern neighbors – Moravians and Slovaks are less Alpine and Dinaric type is more (Armenoidal element) popular. It interesting that this belt is not really Alpine geographically and is located further north. Mentioned “belt” is (was) probably the European only region with Alpine type majority.

[Ted]

Indeed Czech Sudetian and Polish Western Carpathian mountains (Gorals) are part of the same “Alpine type” belt spreading from France. Eastern Carpathian Ukrainians are less Alpine and gradually Dinaric type is more common (Huzuls). Also southern neighbors – Moravians and Slovaks are less Alpine and Dinaric type is more (Armenoidal element) popular. It interesting that this belt is not really Alpine geographically and is located further north. Mentioned “belt” is (was) probably the European only region with Alpine type majority.

You're probably 100% correct, but from my observations I always found American Poles to be a lot more Alpininc than Neo-Danubian. Again, it is just an observation, but I remember American Poles to be a lot swarthier in complexion with darker hair and eyes than today's European Poles--who, by the way, I would agree are mostly Neo-Danubian. Nevertheless, my theory is that the majority of the illiterate Polish peasants who came to work as labourers in the factories of America's dirty Rust Belt conurbations were from a more southerly region of what was once Poland. In my eyes it must have been an area where Alpines predominated.

[Marius]

I guess then my question is this: Is the Alpine element just as strong in Eastern Europe as it is in places like France and Germany? And if so, where in particular in Eastern Europe would one find the greatest concentration of Alpines? Thanks!

Romania, Hungary, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Western Ukraine, Austria, Slovakia present an important concentration of Alpines. There are admixtures, of course. But, even the notion of Alpine is very highly disputed. One say there is no such subrace as the Alpine one. In fact, after them, the Alpines are just a genetic drift from other subraces, presenting an adaptation to a mountain environment.

I am not advocating this theory, but I cannot prove it wrong, since even the concept of 'subrace' itself is highly disputed from a scientifical point of view.

Please consult the following thread, too: http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=25082 (please take out, the quarelling info and concentrate over the real interesting issue). I think there are some interesting posts concerning the theoretical issue of Alpinism.

[Japetos]

Where, and I mean quite specifically, in Europe would one find the heaviest concentrations of Alpines?

Bavaria? Baden? Central France? Slovakia? I know one website estimates the centre of Alpinism to be in Luxomburg, but I don't buy that. The population sample taken was much too small to meet with strict empirical standards of research. I've also heard Sicily too, and I agree Siciily is home to many a corpulant Italian, but I believe the Alpine samples there are more likely a mixture of many things including Dinarics and Mediterraneans.

Thanks

Βavaria;according to Greek edition of Larousse-Britannica.