View Poll Results: Who/what are you loyal to?

Voters
90. You may not vote on this poll
  • My people

    67 74.44%
  • My government

    4 4.44%
  • My family

    61 67.78%
  • My friends

    51 56.67%
  • My partner/spouse

    48 53.33%
  • My religion

    28 31.11%
  • My ideology

    52 57.78%
  • My principles

    60 66.67%
  • Other

    10 11.11%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 47

Thread: What/Who Are You Loyal To?

  1. #1
    Bradford
    Guest

    Question What/Who Are You Loyal To?

    How can you know, if a man wanting to give your cell or organisation is loyal?

    #1 He must put up several members of their family as
    hostages.

    #2 He must commit an act of violence that no government
    agent ever would commit.

    Do not trust anyone who does meet these two minimum standards.

    The rules are useless unless your cell has the will to enforce
    the law. We are in a WAR not vandalizing a shopping mall.
    Last edited by Moody; Wednesday, April 21st, 2004 at 07:23 PM. Reason: taste

  2. #2
    88and308
    Guest

    Post

    On point 1: I would not put up my family as "hostages" to anyone who is trying to build *my* trust...nor would I accept hostages from them. If I am to trust them, what may I deduce from the deliberate act of placing one's own family members in harm's way?

    I couldn't trust the person who would do that...

    On point 2: Just because "a crime" is "too big" for a gov't agent to do, doesn't mean a weasel couldn't. Our movement has many people who talked big, and perhaps "did" big, but when caught they sang like canaries.

    In this case, one could only trust those who had been caught and convicted several times...but then his intelligence would be in question.

    No, "trust" is, like love, many things to many people...and while we can propose standards for achieving trust, it will remain a nebulous area.

    As far as allowing someone to join....why? If your "group" or "cell" advocates violence (and let's assume that you are doing more than just advocating, but in fact are doing) then everyone who approaches you is suspect...if they have the same beliefs as your cell, then they should be acting on it, not "joining" some random group.

    Thus their deeds would come to you via the media/gossip lines, and you would likely approach them (if you are looking for more members)

    The most trusted people will be found on the battlefield, not online.

  3. #3
    Senior Member mav0ric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Last Online
    Saturday, November 13th, 2004 @ 05:20 PM
    Subrace
    Don't know
    Country
    Canada Canada
    Location
    Trail, BC, Canada
    Gender
    Occupation
    Truck Driver
    Politics
    Proud Skinhead
    Religion
    Christian Identity
    Posts
    104
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post Re: Loyalty

    Originally posted by Bradford
    How can you know, if a man wanting to give your cell or organitzaion is loyal?

    #1 He must put up several members of their family as
    hostages.

    #2 He must commit an act of violence that no government
    agent ever would commit.

    Do not trust anyone who does meet these two minimum standards.

    The rules are useless unless your cell has the will to enforce
    the law. We are in a WAR not vandalizing a shopping mall.

    Really? I don't recall The Order having to put up their families as hostages. Also the Irish have used cell strategys to combat the British for decades and some families didn't even know their fathers and/or brothers were members of a cell. They carried on daily life as if nothing was different. That is where strength comes from.
    As for rule 2, there is no need of a cell attitude if not to commit serious acts. You don't need a cell to leaflet or to speak out. In fact the only use in a cell is to create disruption and yet still have the appearance of normality in life. Cells do not get personal publicity so if you think that this is a great way to become a name in the movement, you are doing this for the wrong reasons. Cells certainly can be a great advantage especially when set up with quite a few and a puppetmaster so that no one knows of even the existance of other cells. Thereby never being able to dismantle the entire operation with the arrest of death of individual members of an entire cell. One hand cannot know what the other hand is doing ever if it is to be successful. One individual cell is destined to burn out. The key advantage to multiple cells is always haing some 'cards in play' and never having too many 'ducks in a row'.
    Last edited by Moody; Wednesday, April 21st, 2004 at 07:25 PM. Reason: taste

  4. #4
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Last Online
    Tuesday, July 10th, 2012 @ 10:18 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Albion
    Subrace
    Paleo-Atlantid
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    State
    Essex Essex
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Investigator of Souls
    Politics
    Pan-Germanic Nationalist
    Religion
    Runosophy
    Posts
    1,904
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    9
    Thanked in
    9 Posts

    Post Betrayal

    Betrayal is life's eternal condition!

    All must wade through the quicksand of betrayal; all humans are in a constant fight against betrayal - betrayal by others ... and self betrayal.

    We give ourselves away at every moment without knowing it!

    'My honour is loyalty'; and this goes to show that all ethics are COMPENSATORY. Where honour and loyalty are lacking in the face of overwhelming betrayal, then an ethics of non-betrayal is made.

    Betrayal as a survival value.

    No doubt in prehistoric times [the longest period of human history] man was in a constant state of betrayal; only by betrayal could he survive.

    Judas Iscariot; he betrays Christ for 30 pieces of silver - his shame causes him to hang himself.

    Jean Genet's 'The Ecstasy of Betrayal' - even the ideological traitor behaves with a selfish motive - his illusion of freedom, of power; his denial of the necessity of interdependence in society. The Betrayer will emerg in every setting - he is vain; ever avenging himself against all slights personal and impersonal.
    At paranoia's poison door.

    Ideology as the rationalisation of Betrayal.

    Dante placed Traitors in the lowest circle of Hell.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  5. #5
    Account Inactive bocian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    Saturday, January 13th, 2007 @ 09:38 AM
    Subrace
    Intermarine (Arya)
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Gender
    Politics
    N/A
    Posts
    987
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post Re: Betrayal

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    Betrayal is life's eternal condition!

    All must wade through the quicksand of betrayal; all humans are in a constant fight against betrayal - betrayal by others ... and self betrayal.

    We give ourselves away at every moment without knowing it!

    'My honour is loyalty'; and this goes to show that all ethics are COMPENSATORY. Where honour and loyalty are lacking in the face of overwhelming betrayal, then an ethics of non-betrayal is made.

    Betrayal as a survival value.

    No doubt in prehistoric times [the longest period of human history] man was in a constant state of betrayal; only by betrayal could he survive.

    Judas Iscariot; he betrays Christ for 30 pieces of silver - his shame causes him to hang himself.

    Jean Genet's 'The Ecstasy of Betrayal' - even the ideological traitor behaves with a selfish motive - his illusion of freedom, of power; his denial of the necessity of interdependence in society. The Betrayer will emerg in every setting - he is vain; ever avenging himself against all slights personal and impersonal.
    At paranoia's poison door.

    Ideology as the rationalisation of Betrayal.

    Dante placed Traitors in the lowest circle of Hell.
    Betrayal is the most animalistic of human conditions.

    Betrayal is what it comes down to in the end, does it not?

    We give ourselves away, but why? I'm sure we know we betray, it's all a matter of where our priorities lie, and why one feels betrayed. It's usually the victim, not the perpetrator who feels 'betrayal'... but does he understand it fully?

    Honour is Loyalty is Betrayal, I think they all go hand in hand, there are always at least two sides to the medal.

    I think in prehistoric times loyalty was more important than betrayal, but as I said earlier Loyalty and betrayal are like black and white, thus quite interchangeable.

    To whom was Judas loyal to in the end?

    Paranoia is the word.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Last Online
    Tuesday, July 10th, 2012 @ 10:18 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Albion
    Subrace
    Paleo-Atlantid
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    State
    Essex Essex
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Investigator of Souls
    Politics
    Pan-Germanic Nationalist
    Religion
    Runosophy
    Posts
    1,904
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    9
    Thanked in
    9 Posts

    Post Towards a Psychology of Betrayal

    bocian; "Betrayal is the most animalistic of human conditions".
    Moody; Is that so? Some would say that animals exhibit far more loyalty than do humans. It could be argued that humans have made betrayal into an highly evolved art.

    I was thinking that there could be a delicious attraction to betrayal. Some people are drawn to spying and espionage as a way of life; they find nothing so lovely as betrayal.
    Betrayal is better than sex to some of them.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Last Online
    Sunday, March 19th, 2006 @ 05:06 AM
    Subrace
    Don't know
    Country
    New Zealand New Zealand
    Gender
    Age
    55
    Occupation
    PORNOGRAPHER
    Politics
    conservative
    Posts
    96
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post Re: Towards a Psychology of Betrayal

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    bocian; "Betrayal is the most animalistic of human conditions".
    This is just so wrong it's not funny..animals have no concept of betrayal.
    Nor do I think it is even possible to apply this human characteristic to them?

    Moody; Is that so? Some would say that animals exhibit far more loyalty than do humans. It could be argued that humans have made betrayal into an highly evolved art.
    Animals are so unlike humans in so far as with animals what you see is what you get. They don't pretend to be something they are not whilst secretively manouvering around to stab you in the back.

    I was thinking that there could be a delicious attraction to betrayal. Some people are drawn to spying and espionage as a way of life; they find nothing so lovely as betrayal.
    Betrayal is better than sex to some of them.
    You may be right....Rupert Murdoch has made an art form out of it, but I think it is more a case of these betrayal junkies not having a decent set of morals to start with......sort of a win at all costs attitude that may be healthy for them but not those they come in contact with. Come to think of it some of my Ex girl friends fall into this category.
    Politics is where we send the mediocre people so they can feel vaguely consequential and when they say ''His Excellency or The Honourable Minister", They really mean "This Prick here"

  8. #8
    Account Inactive bocian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    Saturday, January 13th, 2007 @ 09:38 AM
    Subrace
    Intermarine (Arya)
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Gender
    Politics
    N/A
    Posts
    987
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post Re: Towards a Psychology of Betrayal

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    bocian; "Betrayal is the most animalistic of human conditions".

    Moody; Is that so? Some would say that animals exhibit far more loyalty than do humans. It could be argued that humans have made betrayal into an highly evolved art.

    I was thinking that there could be a delicious attraction to betrayal. Some people are drawn to spying and espionage as a way of life; they find nothing so lovely as betrayal.
    Betrayal is better than sex to some of them.
    I guess what I meant by that statement was that it's a very primitive act (don't take it word for word) . Is it still betrayal if the person unknowingly betrays?

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Last Online
    Sunday, March 19th, 2006 @ 05:06 AM
    Subrace
    Don't know
    Country
    New Zealand New Zealand
    Gender
    Age
    55
    Occupation
    PORNOGRAPHER
    Politics
    conservative
    Posts
    96
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post Re: Towards a Psychology of Betrayal

    Quote Originally Posted by bocian
    I guess what I meant by that statement was that it's a very primitive act (don't take it word for word) . Is it still betrayal if the person unknowingly betrays?
    No offence meant bocian

    Is there ever an instance of unkowning betrayal? Same question I guess but I can't think of an instance where someone could betray unwittingly.

    If I for argument sake was a liquidator/reciever and decided to close down a company to make the parent company more profitable, and in so doing unwittingly put my best friends brother out of work (does that even count). Then that could be seen as unknowingly betraying someone (it's a stretch but).

    99.9% of the time however I think the betrayer knows but chooses to ignore certain facts or rationalises it to him/herself
    Politics is where we send the mediocre people so they can feel vaguely consequential and when they say ''His Excellency or The Honourable Minister", They really mean "This Prick here"

  10. #10
    Account Inactive bocian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Last Online
    Saturday, January 13th, 2007 @ 09:38 AM
    Subrace
    Intermarine (Arya)
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Gender
    Politics
    N/A
    Posts
    987
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post Re: Towards a Psychology of Betrayal

    Quote Originally Posted by stroker
    Is there ever an instance of unkowning betrayal? Same question I guess but I can't think of an instance where someone could betray unwittingly.
    If I did not intend to betray, but someone felt betrayed, then it is betrayal but only felt by the victim, not the supposed perpetrator.

    Sometimes people even feel betrayed by animals, surely the animals did not intend to betray.

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 2
    Last Post: Saturday, March 26th, 2011, 02:52 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •