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Thread: The English are German

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    Question The English are German

    An article from today's (Oct 22) Daily Mail. Subject that has already been discussed, that the English are predominately descended from the Germanic Angles, Saxons & Jutes. That they accomplished this through a system of apartheid.

    I have brought this up before in threads on this topic, if the English are predominately Germanic, then shouldn't they have the same predominate subraces as Denmark & Northwest Germany?

    It is a rivalry that has prevailed throughout two World Wars and countless football clashes. But it seems the English and Germans have more in common than one might have thought.

    New research has found that the Anglo-Saxon invasion of Britain from the continent 1,600 years ago was so successful that native charateristics were virtually wiped out.

    And as a result experts say this has left England with a population made up largely of Germanic genes and with a language that owes much to our Anglo-Saxon invaders.

    The new study explains that the majority of original British genes were wiped out in favour of German ones through a system of apartheid set up by the invaders. This allowed the Anglo-Saxons to out-breed the Brits and our country became "Germanised."

    Continue reading;http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

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    Quote Originally Posted by Americ View Post
    if the English are predominately Germanic, then shouldn't they have the same predominate subraces as Denamrk & Northwest Germany?
    No, because it is a matter of breeding habits, and there are some generations in between.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Plus not all of the other populations are "eradicated" and there was mixing. If we look at Darwin's finches, they can evolve quite quickly over generations anyways, to adapt to environmental situations. Plus after the Anglo-Saxons came other populations came as well, if we look at the history of the Isles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freydis View Post
    Plus not all of the other populations are "eradicated" and there was mixing.
    Kind of my point, in that the subraces are different between England & Denmark/Holstein/Niedersachsen. I think that is because of mixture between the Germanics & Brythons. Then there is the explanations you & Jager gave.

    After the Angles, Saxons & Jutes, the next migrants to England were the Danes in the north & Vikings from Norway in the northern & western coastal areas. Then the Normans in the 11th century, but they were generally of Danish/Norse descend themselves & their demographic impact was limited because they were generally of the aristocratic class. The Danes, Norse & Normans were Germanic by blood. Between the Normans in the 11th century & the non-Europid migration that started after WWII, there was virtually no significant migration to England from outside the British Isles, except for the Huguenots who came in the late 17th century. During the industrial revolution there was migration into England from the Celtic fringe of the British Isles, I don't know how much influence this has had on the modern (White) population of England.

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    I've often wondered what effects the great colonial population drain on England/Britain have had on its current genetic and phenotypic composition. Meaning, how has the massive outflow of genes to New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Canada, America, etc. influenced the current genetic makeup of the Isles...?

    I find it curious that I've never seen any mention of this while reading through a published study of the genetics of Britain. Of course it's quite possible that I have missed something along the way!

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    Yes, that is an interesting possiblity. Maybe the more Germanic elements of the population migrated abroad over the last 4 centuries, leaving the more Brythonic elements of the population in England, while at the same time there was migration into England from Wales, Ireland & the Celtic areas of Scotland. Britain had/has a rigid class structure & it is not out of the question that different elements of British society have their origins in racial differences between the Brythons, Anglo-Saxons & Normans. Many of the emigrants out of England were of the middleclass or yeomans (my understanding of yeoman is that it included small freeholders & persons holding land by copyhold), persons more likelier to Anglo-Saxon rather then landless laborers (Brythons/Celts) or aristocrats (Normans).

    It would be worthwhiled if a scientific study was done on persons of pure Yankee descent compared to their modern brethren in England. There must be quite a few Yankees in New England of purely 17th century English descent without any significant Celtic or Dutch/German ancestry. I would bet that there are several towns in New England were the inhabitants are closer genetically to the 17 century English, then the modern inhabitants of England are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Americ View Post
    Yes, that is an interesting possiblity. Maybe the more Germanic elements of the population migrated abroad over the last 4 centuries, leaving the more Brythonic elements of the population in England, while at the same time there was migration into England from Wales, Ireland & the Celtic areas of Scotland. Britain had/has a rigid class structure & it is not out of the question that different elements of British society have their origins in racial differences between the Brythons, Anglo-Saxons & Normans.
    Exactly my thoughts.




    Many of the emigrants out of England were of the middleclass or yeomans (my understanding of yeoman is that it included small freeholders & persons holding land by copyhold), persons more likelier to Anglo-Saxon rather then landless laborers (Brythons/Celts) or aristocrats (Normans).
    Indeed. And yes, the meaning of yeoman as you have described and not one of these dudes:






    It would be worthwhiled if a scientific study was done on persons of pure Yankee descent compared to their modern brethren in England. There must be quite a few Yankees in New England of purely 17th century English descent without any significant Celtic or Dutch/German ancestry.

    I don't know for sure but my guess is one would be hard-pressed to find very many of purely colonial English origins around here. I'm not saying it's impossible but it would surely be difficult. There are just so many other folk around these days. The Irish and the French-Canadians have made a lot of in-roads even into the more remote & rural parts of New England and the Italians are close behind, believe it or not.

    I can however, think of a few old-timers that I know that just may be what you describe.

    It would certainly make an interesting study though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Americ View Post
    Yes, that is an interesting possiblity. Maybe the more Germanic elements of the population migrated abroad over the last 4 centuries, leaving the more Brythonic elements of the population in England, while at the same time there was migration into England from Wales, Ireland & the Celtic areas of Scotland. Britain had/has a rigid class structure & it is not out of the question that different elements of British society have their origins in racial differences between the Brythons, Anglo-Saxons & Normans. Many of the emigrants out of England were of the middleclass or yeomans (my understanding of yeoman is that it included small freeholders & persons holding land by copyhold), persons more likelier to Anglo-Saxon rather then landless laborers (Brythons/Celts) or aristocrats (Normans).
    The question is very intriguing, guys.

    Personally i think otherwise. I think major part ofpeoples emigrated from British Isles was more of Celtic background (or at least genetically).
    I mean major ethnicities emigrated in North-America are : Catholic-Irish (fully celtic), Scot-Irish (or "protestant Irish". Mainly celtic). Welsh (fully celtic)
    Scottish (partially to heavily celtic) and ENGLISH (generally the lowest classes of english population emigrated. I suppose lowest english classes are if not predominantly, at least notably Britonic/Celtic in heritage)

    So in conclusion, the Celtic genetic contribute from british isles to North-America is very big. Reversely the British isles kept the major part of their Germanic blood...........that's simply my personal hypothesis.

    Imo the biggest source of "pure" Germanic blood in North-america comes from Germans, Dutch and Scandinavians and some french.



    The real and controversial point of the question, anyway, is How the British Isles are Germanic ? Post roman empire Anglo-saxon invasions , EFFECTIVELY changed the genetic structure of british isles populations, or simply imposed their germanic language to a vast native local population ?

    I opened a thread about Scotland months ago.........a similar thread about Englad ("is England really Germanic?")would be even more complicated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Americ View Post
    I have brought this up before in threads on this topic, if the English are predominately Germanic, then shouldn't they have the same predominate subraces as Denmark & Northwest Germany?
    should be, but their looks obviously differ.

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    The answer is no simply because the English are not predominantly germanic. I dont care what this or that self-credited "test" says. Common sense is unfortunately the least common of the senses.

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