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Thread: The English are German

  1. #31
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    As we've been available to read from severeal studies English are overwhelmingly Germanic, genetically alomoust identical to North-Germans and Danes.
    As far as I'm aware, there is only one (perhaps rather suspect) study which supposedly found this.

    All the other studies have concluded that a substantial majority are descended from the pre-Germanic inhabitants.

    Besides, the Pre-Germanic population probably included a significant element who were genetically related to the peoples of North Germany.

    Thus they are Germanic in their origins, not indegious Celtic or any other just like this article, backed with latest research proves!
    I don't think it's the latest research, but rather some research done some years ago which has been regurgitated by the media quite a few times.

    There's no such thing as Borreby or Nordid genes! The typological system of thirties, overemphasizing cephalic index and facial index are ridiculous at the time of DNA.
    DNA must be interpreted in the light of historical and anthropological evidence. DNA testing is not exactly an infallible way of ascertaining these things. If you start with the wrong assumptions, you can be way out.

  2. #32
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    The Anglo-Saxons did manage to impose their language & their laws in England. The Romans did not do this, though they did in Gaul. The Franks in Gaul, Visigoths in Spain & Lombards in Italy were all small groups of invaders who formed the aristocracy & were obsorbed lingistically & culturally into the conquered population. This did not happen to the Anglo-Saxons. The Normans were essentially a small aristicratic group in the way that some theorize the Anglo-Saxons were. And yet the Normans did not supplant English with French (though they did intoduce many words of Latin origin into the English language) or change the legal system :033102st:.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Americ View Post
    The Anglo-Saxons did manage to impose their language & their laws in England. The Romans did not do this, though they did in Gaul. The Franks in Gaul, Visigoths in Spain & Lombards in Italy were all small groups of invaders who formed the aristocracy & were obsorbed lingistically & culturally into the conquered population. This did not happen to the Anglo-Saxons.

    Excuse me, but it's not completely exact............Anglo-saxons were (numerically) the same as Franks and Lombards.

    Lombards in Italy were estimated in 300'000 about. not less than Anglosaxons in Britain.


    So the explaination is another one, i think. More complicate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hussar View Post
    Excuse me, but it's not completely exact............Anglo-saxons were (numerically) the same as Franks and Lombards.

    Lombards in Italy were estimated in 300'000 about. not less than Anglosaxons in Britain.


    So the explaination is another one, i think. More complicate.
    You've either missed or chosen to ignore his point there; obviously the numbers in England WERE NOT the same, or else the Anglo Saxons would have been absorbed in the way all the other invaders were, you quote the Anglo Saxon 300,000 figure as if it was a fact, we have no idea of how many germanic people moved to England.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhydderch View Post
    Besides, the Pre-Germanic population probably included a significant element who were genetically related to the peoples of North Germany.
    Exactly--and I think this a very important element to consider in this whole discussion.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by rivalin View Post
    You've either missed or chosen to ignore his point there; obviously the numbers in England WERE NOT the same, or else the Anglo Saxons would have been absorbed in the way all the other invaders were, you quote the Anglo Saxon 300,000 figure as if it was a fact, we have no idea of how many germanic people moved to England.

    I read several articles in the past. And NO on eof them gave an estimate demographic consistence major than 300'000/400'000 for Anglosaxons

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    Why fret about numbers? All you really need to do to get your head around this problem is open your eyes to what's happening NOW in England. While natives are still the mass of the population, their centres of population are rapidly becoming strongholds of invaders. The invaders breed more, and marginalise the natives, who then often end up breeding with them rather than with their own kind, or else the natives seem to fall into a general apathy/malaise and not breed at all, as though sensing the futility of it.

    As for the Langobards, they came down into the Mediterranean world, where urbanism had been around for almost millenia, where civilisation in the Mediterranean style had become irrevocably ingrained. The Angles and Saxons came into a Britain devastated by plague, economic collapse, periodic raiding and civil strife, and where urban life for the overwhelming mass of the population had only really been around for a few generations, or 200 years at most.

    Anyway, the key to England is the regional aspect. Germanic conquest took different forms in different areas, and took place at different times, producing a highly complex picture of Germanic core settlement and diffusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rivalin
    You've either missed or chosen to ignore his point there; obviously the numbers in England WERE NOT the same, or else the Anglo Saxons would have been absorbed in the way all the other invaders were
    I don't think you can assume that. I believe there are other explanations, although I think the British culturally absorbed the Anglo-Saxons far more than it's often believed.

    The primary difference between the continental Germanic conquests and those in Britain, as far as absorbtion is concerned, is in the area of language. Otherwise I don't think the situations are that different.

    I wrote out my hypothesis as to why English prevailed in Germanic-ruled Britain. I can't remember what thread I had it in though.

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    As for the Langobards, they came down into the Mediterranean world, where urbanism had been around for almost millenia, where civilisation in the Mediterranean style had become irrevocably ingrained. The Angles and Saxons came into a Britain devastated by plague, economic collapse, periodic raiding and civil strife, and where urban life for the overwhelming mass of the population had only really been around for a few generations, or 200 years at most.
    Well, the situation in Britain prior to the conquest was similar to on the continent. It was less culturally Romanised, but probably just as prosperous and populated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhydderch View Post
    Well, the situation in Britain prior to the conquest was similar to on the continent. It was less culturally Romanised, but probably just as prosperous and populated.
    I did say collapse. But how much of the late Imperial agricultural system would have survived? How much relevance would Roman city life have had in the memory of the peasants who were conquered by the Angles? As for the townsfolk themselves, these would have suffered most in the disasters that Bede and Gildas record. Anyone with owt about him would have upped and left for Gaul, with the bravest falling under the seax at the final reckoning. There must have been a decline in truly Romanised Britons, as a man from the less civilised west was able to take over - Vortigern. Bear in mind also the activities of the Bacaudae in Gaul, resulting from the social stress internal to the system. Envisage Russia after 1917, and the breakdown of bread delivery to the cities. Even with the violent efforts of forcible requisitioners (various -shteyns and -bergs so on...), the Soviet government couldn't stop a severe crisis of depopulation of the cities. The country was a mess, as you doubtless have seen in Dr. Zhivago or whatever, and Britannia was probably in a similar state in 449.

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