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Thread: The English are German

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky Roma View Post
    The answer is no simply because the English are not predominantly germanic. I dont care what this or that self-credited "test" says. Common sense is unfortunately the least common of the senses.
    Studies tend to show that the genetic contributions of the Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Frisians, Danes, Norse, and Normans predominates over any other ancestor of the modern English, so it seems evident that the vast majority of the nation is of primarily Germanic origin. Of course, that's with the exception of the Cornish and the Brythonic/Welsh admixture often seen in the West Midlands. At the very least, the English are a primarily Germanic people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Americ View Post
    Yes, that is an interesting possiblity. Maybe the more Germanic elements of the population migrated abroad over the last 4 centuries, leaving the more Brythonic elements of the population in England, while at the same time there was migration into England from Wales, Ireland & the Celtic areas of Scotland. Britain had/has a rigid class structure & it is not out of the question that different elements of British society have their origins in racial differences between the Brythons, Anglo-Saxons & Normans. Many of the emigrants out of England were of the middleclass or yeomans (my understanding of yeoman is that it included small freeholders & persons holding land by copyhold), persons more likelier to Anglo-Saxon rather then landless laborers (Brythons/Celts) or aristocrats (Normans).
    I have heard that the people descended the population of Brython who were there before the Germanic invasion are more likely to get tattoos, in fact it is a surviving custom from them. Originally laborer types and prisoners got tattoos primarily, perhaps a reflection of the sort of caste system imposed by the Germanic invasion. With the amount of Chav scum, many of whom have tattoos, in England perhaps this earlier Brython element is more predominant than it once was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager
    No, because it is a matter of breeding habits, and there are some generations in between.
    That doesn't explain why the inhabitants of Holland, Northern Germany and Denmark have all stayed relatively similar to each other. If the sub-racial predominance can vary so easily, I think we wouldn't find this to be the case.

    It also doesn't explain why the sub-racial types (and their frequencies) are similar to the rest of the British Isles in comparison. Some of course argue that this is because of migration from those other areas of Britain and Ireland.
    However, these migrations were mostly from the nineteenth century onwards, and to a significant extent they are still not really fully integrated as English, so there is a distinction. I think even the "true" English are subracially closer to their "Celtic" neighbours than to Danes/North Germans.

    Any immigration from the Celtic countries prior to the nineteenth century would not be proportionately large enough to make a noticeable difference.

    As for migration to the colonies, Londoners in the seventeenth century were subracially almost indistinguishable from the Roman and Iron Age Britons. Very much a "Keltic Nordic" head structure, which is interesting given that the British descended population in England presumably includes just as much of the robust earlier elements as it does of the Keltic type. Yet this is apparently not really visible in the 17th century London population, indicating that the Celts in general didn't just become a lower class, but retained their own social distinctions.

    I would guess that British descent strongly predominates even among the middle/upper middle classes in England. Town populations in those days were probably drawn largely from middle and upper classes, and I think that explains the predominantly Keltic as opposed to Cro-Magnoid (i.e. Palaeo-Atlantid, Brunn and Borreby) characteristics of those Londoners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhydderch View Post
    That doesn't explain why the inhabitants of Holland, Northern Germany and Denmark have all stayed relatively similar to each other. If the sub-racial predominance can vary so easily, I think we wouldn't find this to be the case.
    The racial dominance varies even just among North-Germans, I never doubted that the English are similar.
    However their racial dominance seems to differ, obviously if there is a rather clear case, so that just Faelids and Nordids are present, then one could call the racial dominance of Faelids and Nordids obvious and not really changeable.

    My remark wasn't about why it actually is that way, but why the logic to assume the similarity is flawed, and that racial composition can change easily is just a matter of statistics. The idea that Anglo-Saxons mixed with Britons is most likely the true source.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    I think the English are between the northern Germanics and Celtic/Megalithic peoples about equally. Obviously the mixture varies going from East to West.

    I'm not really into the Nordic = Germanic thing. Anyway, by the time the Germanics arrived in England, those Germanics were already a mixed-descended group of the original language bearers and upper-paleos (Nordids, Borrebies, Bruenns). As long as someone is northern or western European and they speak a Germanic tongue, that's significant to me. Maybe some here disagree.

    Funny how the Faelid type is not that common, but Nordids and North-Alpinids are.

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    I have strong doubts whether this investigation is credible.
    Bred out ? Germanised ? Highly unlikely. Allthough I don't know much about genes, culture and language are no stranger to me. Englishman are somewhat smaller then Germanics from mainland Europe ( check the average height for instance: I believe that England has a average height of 1.73 (I could be wrong) while Holland has one of over just 1.80) and their language is different (French, Latin. Celtic and some Germanic influences- the grammar follows a Germanic patern) I would say that England is a highly mixed society and possibly the earliest example of a multicultural society in Northern Europe: since Celtic, Norman (French) and Germanic (both Saxon, Frisian and Viking) ideas, genes and their languages have been completely interwoven.

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    I am not a scientist but I would say that England is a highly mixed society and possibly the earliest example of a multicultural society in Northern Europe
    I don't think England is any more mixed subracially than other European countries. All European countries have experienced invasions and mixing of different groups, including Celts and Germanics.

    I tend to remember that the cockney are maybe a bit darker and smaller then people that I have met that came from other area's in England.
    Whilst dark features and short stature are probably indicative of Celtic descent in England, not being short and dark is not necessarily an indication of Germanic descent.

    The free classes (and as such, fighting men) among the Britons were apparently tallish and relatively slim. Their hair colour probably ranged between medium brown and dark brown/black, but prevailingly on the medium brown end of the scale.

    This look (along with the sloping forehead, prominent convex nose etc.) is actually quite typical of the modern English.

    And further, Borreby genes were very likely quite common in the unfree classes in Ancient Britain, so even blond hair doesn't necessarily indicate predominantly non-Celtic ancestry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I have heard that the people descended the population of Brython who were there before the Germanic invasion are more likely to get tattoos, in fact it is a surviving custom from them. Originally laborer types and prisoners got tattoos primarily, perhaps a reflection of the sort of caste system imposed by the Germanic invasion. With the amount of Chav scum, many of whom have tattoos, in England perhaps this earlier Brython element is more predominant than it once was.
    Ah yes.... brilliant post. eyes:
    tattooed lower class chav scum like:

    # King Frederik IX - King of Denmark (1947-1972)
    # King Edward VII
    # King George V
    # Princess Stéphanie - Princess
    # Winston Churchill - Prime Minister of Great Britain
    # Franklin D. Roosevelt - president of USA
    # George Schultz - US Secretary of State

    edit: no, I am not personally tattooed.

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  11. #19
    Senior Member Drakkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneEnglishNorman View Post
    Funny how the Faelid type is not that common, but Nordids and North-Alpinids are.
    Speaking of which, where is the most significant population of faelids (today)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lögsögumaður View Post
    I have strong doubts whether this investigation is credible.
    Bred out ? Germanised ? Highly unlikely. Allthough I don't know much about genes, culture and language are no stranger to me. Englishman are somewhat smaller then Germanics from mainland Europe ( check the average height for instance: I believe that England has a average height of 1.73 (I could be wrong) while Holland has one of over just 1.80) and their language is different (French, Latin. Celtic and some Germanic influences- the grammar follows a Germanic patern) I would say that England is a highly mixed society and possibly the earliest example of a multicultural society in Northern Europe: since Celtic, Norman (French) and Germanic (both Saxon, Frisian and Viking) ideas, genes and their languages have been completely interwoven.
    Over generalisations in areas as complex as this tend to be unwise, I'm mainly English with a little Boer thrown in and I'm 6'4', so not all Englishmen are "shorter than Germanics". Also average heights are now extremely unreliable with regards to western populations due to the very high levels of immigrations from third world countries. With regards to Holland, while they may be tall now they were mocked for centuries as the shortest people in Europe; factors such as public health and nutrition contribute as much to average national heights as genetics.

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