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Thread: Classify these "Aryan" people please

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    Post Re: Classify this Aryan people please

    Quote Originally Posted by basken överhöghet
    All right, all them are basque, but they are not "French Basque", actually there is not "spanish Basque" or "French Basque" we are exclusive and NOTHING BUT Basques.
    From Coon's Races of Europe:

    ...The forehead is straight or but slightly sloping, the browridges weak or absent, the nasion depression slight or absent, the nose thin, often aquiline, with a thin tip, sometimes depressed; the forehead is broad, the mid?face quite narrow, the mandible extremely slender and narrow through the bigonial region, and the chin is narrow and pointed. The Spanish Basques are mesocephalic, with a mean cephalic index of 78, while the French Basques are sub-brachycephalic, with a mean of about 82.

    The French Basques are by no means all brunet; Collignon finds 22 per cent of blue eyes, 44 per cent of "medium," and 34 per cent of dark. Black hair is found in 7 per cent of the group, brown in 77 per cent, and light brown to blond in 16 per cent. Among the Spanish Basques the incidence of blondism is somewhat lower, but the Basques are still light when compared to most other inhabitants of Spain. The nasal profile is convex in some 49 per cent of French Basques, as compared to 43 per cent of Spanish ones.

    ...

    Collignon believed, and Montandon follows him, that the French Basques are freer from modern mixture than are the Spanish Basques. This may perhaps be true, since neither the round-headed tendency of the French Basques nor their relatively high incidence of blondism can be wholly explained as local acquisitions. The Basques, as a whole, represent an ancient and subsequently specialized mixture of Mediterraneans and Atlanto-Mediterraneans with partially blond Dinarics, and it is just as possible that different Basque sub-groups differed originally in amount of Dinaric blood as that the modern Spanish Basques have been altered through Spanish mixture.

    Both the Atlanto-Mediterranean and Dinaric elements mentioned were present as early as the Copper Age in North Central Spain, where they were partially identified with the early Bell Beaker culture. The Keltic Iron Age racial type of Britain, which the living Spanish Basques so closely resemble, was produced originally in southern Germany from a combination of Nordics with Bell Beaker or other Dinarics, and imported into England where Mediterranean and Atlanto-Mediterranean elements, as well as some Bronze Age Dinaric factors, were already present. The mixture of similar ingredients in different places produces similar results. Seen in the light of modern physical anthropology, the Basques are still interesting, and perhaps romantic, but no longer mysterious.
    [Emphasis added]
    I don't know if I'd trust Coon's analysis of the origin of the Basques (which would have them composed of the IE peoples), but I do think his cranial measurements and observations of blondism ought to be valid.

    I find it interesting Coon's comparison of Keltic Iron Age Britons with the Basques. Some people on this board have stated that genetic studies of some British groups and Basques show strong similarities.
    Last edited by Louky; Thursday, April 1st, 2004 at 03:22 PM.
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    Post Re: Classify this Aryan people please

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoob
    Thanks for offering your perspective.

    Can you give more info on what you mean by the ancestral Atlantid civilization?

    Thanks!
    It's incredible how a mistyped word might change a whole sentence!!!!

    What i really meant was ATLANTIS, you know, The legendary Atlantis civilization.

    Sorry by the bewilderment.

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    Lightbulb Re: Classify this Aryan people please

    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian
    Interesting. I do take exception with one point, and that is that you can not be Aryan yet not Indo-European. Aryan = Indo-European, that is it's meaning. Therefore you cannot be one and not the other.
    Well, in part you'r right, in part you are not, because Aryan dosn't mean Indo-European at all, The word Aryan is only a term to specify an in particular ethnic group (Aryans properly) whom belonged to the great Indo-european family like Germanics, Slavics, and mediterraneans do.
    In the other hand, today the word Aryan is heavely used by NS, SKH'S, WP'S and the like, for designate whole white race, regardless, whether they are Indo-Europeans like the Ethnic groups above mentioned, or NON Indo-Europeans like Finnish and Hungarians or rather Suomis and Magyars and Basques of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian
    I wouldn't let it bother me however. I don't place much importance on Aryanism personally. The Indo-Europeans were relative late-comers to Europe compared to the Upper-Paleolithics, Meditteranians, etc.
    Don't worry as i explained you, for me , and all others of NS Aryan means White, anyway, i'm basque, thus, i'm on the top you know, i am member of the best of all white race.







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    Lightbulb Re: Classify this Aryan people please

    Quote Originally Posted by Louky
    From Coon's Races of Europe:

    ...The forehead is straight or but slightly sloping, the browridges weak or absent, the nasion depression slight or absent, the nose thin, often aquiline, with a thin tip, sometimes depressed; the forehead is broad, the mid?face quite narrow, the mandible extremely slender and narrow through the bigonial region, and the chin is narrow and pointed. The Spanish Basques are mesocephalic, with a mean cephalic index of 78, while the French Basques are sub-brachycephalic, with a mean of about 82.
    Ok, i dont know if all that is true or not, because i am not Anthropolgy(at least not yet ) but i asked make comparasion between Basque people and Nordic people, who are the most closely to our Ethnic features.


    Quote Originally Posted by Louky
    The French Basques are by no means all brunet;
    No, they aren't, but i don't remember have mentioned.just one thing, i would prefer that you call us Iparraldens instead "Basque French" and in the other side, Hegoaldens instead "Spanish Basque", you know, in just the same way as Ulster and Munster in Ireland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louky
    Collignon finds 22 per cent of blue eyes, 44 per cent of "medium," and 34 per cent of dark. Black hair is found in 7 per cent of the group, brown in 77 per cent, and light brown to blond in 16 per cent. Among the Spanish Basques the incidence of blondism is somewhat lower, but the Basques are still light when compared to most other inhabitants of Spain. The nasal profile is convex in some 49 per cent of French Basques, as compared to 43 per cent of Spanish ones.

    ...

    Collignon believed, and Montandon follows him, that the French Basques are freer from modern mixture than are the Spanish Basques. This may perhaps be true, since neither the round-headed tendency of the French Basques nor their relatively high incidence of blondism can be wholly explained as local acquisitions. The Basques, as a whole, represent an ancient and subsequently specialized mixture of Mediterraneans and Atlanto-Mediterraneans with partially blond Dinarics, and it is just as possible that different Basque sub-groups differed originally in amount of Dinaric blood as that the modern Spanish Basques have been altered through Spanish mixture.
    Hmmm... well, yeah, in some points they are right but in others refutables; who the hell aer them? by the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louky
    the Basques are still interesting, and perhaps romantic, but no longer mysterious.[Emphasis added]
    Are you sure we are no longer mysterious? [Emphasis added] lol, either, or you are not well informated, or you know certain information which you don't want to share with us.

    Seriously, i don't believe that basques are no longer enigmatic, because if this is true, then, we knew the origin of the basque language(EUSKERA) and many others things such as, our specific origin, and why we basques are genetically diferents to all others europeans, the high incidence of Rh-(Negative) and so forth...

    Quote Originally Posted by Louky
    I don't know if I'd trust Coon's analysis of the origin of the Basques (which would have them composed of the IE peoples), but I do think his cranial measurements and observations of blondism ought to be valid.
    You must be kidding!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Louky
    Both the Atlanto-Mediterranean and Dinaric elements mentioned were present as early as the Copper Age in North Central Spain, where they were partially identified with the early Bell Beaker culture. The Keltic Iron Age racial type of Britain, which the living Spanish Basques so closely resemble, was produced originally in southern Germany from a combination of Nordics with Bell Beaker or other Dinarics, and imported into England where Mediterranean and Atlanto-Mediterranean elements, as well as some Bronze Age Dinaric factors, were already present. The mixture of similar ingredients in different places produces similar results. Seen in the light of modern physical anthropology

    I find it interesting Coon's comparison of Keltic Iron Age Britons with the Basques. Some people on this board have stated that genetic studies of some British groups and Basques show strong similarities.
    Yeah this is absolutely true...

    When a group of Basques settled in Britain between 9,000 and 5,000 BC, they took with them the worship of Bel, his Holy Day of May 1, and the building of stone circles. Later, the Beaker People arrived and mixed with the Basques, bringing their innovations, such as working silver and gold. When the Greek geographer Pytheas sailed around Britain in 325 BC, he called them the Pretanic Isles because the inhabitants called themselves the Priteni. This evolved into Prytani (Prytaini, Prydaini), and later became Britanni. In 297 AD the Roman, Emmenius, referred to the people of northern Britain as the 'Picti.' Most researchers believe this to refer to the Latin word 'pictus,' meaning 'painted.' Some, however, believe it may be a latinized version of Priteni, after the Norse 'Pettr,' old English 'Peohta,' and old Scots 'Pecht.'
    The Prytani built many stone structures, including stone circles, standing stones, dolmens and stone chambers in earthworks. The inner chambers of these structures were used for ritualistic purposes, and the Prytani buried their dead in a fetal position so they would be ready for rebirth. At Belteine, the rebirth of summer was celebrated with bonfires atop many hills, where cattle were driven through the flames to ensure their fertility for the coming year (and the people also jumped through the flames). The Prytani also worshipped the Old Serpent, who was thought to travel across the countryside on straight paths at certain times of the year. The old straight tracks (called ley lines today) that criss-cross Britain between standing stones have been dated to between 4000 BC and 2000 BC.


    When the Celts swept through the lowland empire of the Basques in Gaul (the Basques retreated to the safety of their seven mountain strongholds), the Celts adopted the Basque short sword (later borrowed by the Romans) and the worship of Bel. Thus, when the Celts entered Britain in force to face a thousand years of warfare against almost a million Prytani, both sides worshipped Bel, held May 1 as a Holy Day, and had chiefs named Bel. The seven royal houses of the Prytani were descended from the seven sons of a great Prytani king, and each ruled its own province. The Celts called them 'Cruithni,' which meant 'tribe of the designs,' after the tatoos they sported.

    The Celts originated somewhere in central Europe and expanded their empire in all directions. Around 400 BC, they suddenly appeared and destroyed the Etruscans and then sacked Rome. The Romans noted that the Celts were tall and muscular, with hair they bleached blonde, and often went naked into battle. When the Romans protested the Celts armed incursion into the area, the Celts told the Romans that anything they could take by force of arms was rightfully theirs.
    However, when Rome rallied after a few hundred years, it took over much of the empire the Celts had carved out. In 55 B.C., Julius Caesar ordered the invasion of Britain, and under the Emperor Vespasian, Julius Agricola attacked the Caledonians at Mons Grampius, where the lowlands met the highlands, in 84 AD. The Caledonians were a mix of Prytani(very Baskized people) and Celts, who had come from Ireland, and although Agricola killed 30,000 of them, he paid a high price himself. As a result, after building a series of forts, the Romans withdrew and the Caledonians returned...


    The following newspaper article reveals scientific findings that support the migration of the Basques to Britain.

    "Gene Study Shows Ties Long Veiled in Europe"
    By NICHOLAS WADE
    April 10, 2001 New York Times
    The richest archaeological site to be found in years is the human genome. Its deep strata reach back to almost any date of interest. And although the only data it records are who is related to whom, this information can be leveraged into a vivid and otherwise unattainable account of the movement of different groups as people spread out across the globe.

    From studying the present day population of the Orkneys, a small archipelago off the northeast coast of Scotland, geneticists from University College, in London, have gained a deep insight into the earliest inhabitants of Europe.

    Of the medley of peoples who populated Britain, neither the Anglo-Saxons nor the Romans ever settled the distant Orkneys. The Romans called the islands' inhabitants picti, or painted people. The Celtic-speaking Picts dominated the islands until the arrival of the Vikings about A.D. 800. The islanders then spoke Norn until the 18th century when this ancient form of Norse was replaced by English, brought in with Scottish settlers after the Orkneys were transferred to Scotland in 1468.

    Are the present day Orcadians descended from Picts, Vikings or Celts? Dr. James F. Wilson, himself an Orcadian, and Dr. David Goldstein analyzed the Y chromosomes of Orkney men and found they could distinguish a genetic signature typical of present-day Norwegians. The finding, reported in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, shows that the Vikings left a genetic mark on the islands, as well as their language and place names.

    The geneticists could also distinguish a set of genetic markers associated with men who bore newer surnames, meaning ones associated with the Scottish settlers. This set of markers closely resembled one found in Welsh and Irish men, suggesting that all were descended from the same population. Where did that population come from?

    Britain's first inhabitants are thought to have arrived in the Paleolithic era around 10,000 years ago. Later, whether by invasion or cultural diffusion, the Celtic language was established. Then, some 3,000 to 4,000 years ago, farming technology appeared in Britain.

    Lacking ancient DNA from a pre- farming British population, Dr. Goldstein and Dr. Wilson chose to compare the common genetic signature of the Welsh, Irish and Scots with the next best thing, the DNA of the Basques who live in northern Spain. The Basques, because they speak an unusual, non-European language and are genetically distinct from other Europeans, have long been assumed to be descended from the continent's first modern human inhabitants.

    Dr. Goldstein said he and his colleagues found the same genetic signature in Basque men, suggesting that the Scots, Irish, Welsh and Basques all derive from the same, possibly very homogeneous, population that inhabited Europe in Paleolithic times. This finding implies that the Celtic language must have arrived in Britain largely by cultural diffusion, displacing the original, presumably Basque-type language spoken by the first settlers.

    These arguments are based on the male, or Y, chromosome and apply only to men. The study of mitochondrial DNA, a genetic element bequeathed solely in the female line, tells a different story. Women from Scotland, Wales and Ireland show no sharp genetic difference from women in the rest of northern Europe. "The implication is that somewhere along the line," Dr. Goldstein said, "whether willingly or unwillingly, females from the continent joined the population in Britain and swamped out the earlier genetic complement from the maternal side."

    The women could have been captured, bought or traded. Or the genetic analysis could be reflecting the ancient custom of women's moving from their own villages to join their husbands in theirs, a tradition that could have continued despite the watery barriers between Britain and the continent.

    Intersting, isn't it(even for me!).


    GORA EUSKADI ASKATU!!!!!

    GORA EUSKADI ZURHIEN!!!!












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    Post Re: Classify this Aryan people please

    I wonder if Anne Boleyn, Henry VIII of England's second wife was Basque. It's long been speculated that she was Rh negative and Henry was Rh positive, which is why Anne was able to have a healthy firstborn, but unable to bear any more children to full term.

    Basques have a high incidence of Rh negative. Also, I see a strong resemblance between "Lisa" in the first post and a portrait of Anne Boleyn, below. Do you think Anne Boleyn's bloodline was Basque?
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    Post Re: Classify this Aryan people please

    Do you have any more lore on the connection between Basques and Atlantis?

    In prehistory, the British Isles extended out West, I believe, and were maybe double the size that they were now, when the ocean was lower.

    I think calling Basques Aryans is a little strange - but their dominant Y Chromosome haplotype is not too distant from the R1a1 (?), which is what looks like a plausible "Aryan" haplotype. The Aryans were Indo-Iranians, much further East in historical times.

    But I agree that Atlantid features and Nordic features are very close. I wonder what an Atlantid would look like with blond hair and blue eyes? Atlantids seem to have a characteristic form of the mid-face, including the woman in the above post.
    "Whatever is done from love always occurs beyond good and evil." - F. Nietzsche

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    Post Re: Classify this Aryan people please

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoob
    Do you have any more lore on the connection between Basques and Atlantis?

    In prehistory, the British Isles extended out West, I believe, and were maybe double the size that they were now, when the ocean was lower.

    I think calling Basques Aryans is a little strange - but their dominant Y Chromosome haplotype is not too distant from the R1a1 (?), which is what looks like a plausible "Aryan" haplotype. The Aryans were Indo-Iranians, much further East in historical times.

    But I agree that Atlantid features and Nordic features are very close. I wonder what an Atlantid would look like with blond hair and blue eyes? Atlantids seem to have a characteristic form of the mid-face, including the woman in the above post.
    About 10500BP Britain was joined by the lowlands of the Continent and the North Sea was mostly dry and functioned as a stepping stone for the colonisation of Scandinavia.
    The early Scandinavians, known from a few unearthened finds, none constituting a series, were probably the largest-headed people of all West European populations at that time and there basion-bregmatic height was exceptional.
    The Valle Brunnids mentioned by Coon are low vaulted, unlike Troender, but both groups were considered North Atlantid by Deniker.
    The Baskids are more properly denoted as the Westpyrenenean race(low vaulted and mesocephalic); Fusté, Basabe and Aranzadi recognize in this race a gracilized Cromagnoid.Parallel to Troender the Baskids have temporal bosses.
    Why elsewhere the races in West Europe that for a very extensive period of time was landmarked for its high-vaultness saw this height gradually decrease, while e.g. Troender kept its original nature remains problematic.

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    Post Re: Classify this Aryan people please

    Quote Originally Posted by Louky
    I wonder if Anne Boleyn, Henry VIII of England's second wife was Basque. It's long been speculated that she was Rh negative and Henry was Rh positive, which is why Anne was able to have a healthy firstborn, but unable to bear any more children to full term.

    Basques have a high incidence of Rh negative. Also, I see a strong resemblance between "Lisa" in the first post and a portrait of Anne Boleyn, below. Do you think Anne Boleyn's bloodline was Basque?
    Well, i couldn't to tell you whether she was basque or not, her first surname dosn't seems being a basque surname, although, her second surname probably do.

    Henry VIII's first wife were
    Catherine of Aragon, (in Castilian language Catalina de Aragón) who was daughter of Ferdinand II of Aragonand Isabella I of Castile. I know that she doesn't nothing to do with Anne Boleyn(some people from Aragon specifically northern Aragon people, have certain kinship toward the Basques) but, as you can see, troughout of european history there were a lot of wedlocks between all or almost all Kings and Queens from at least, western Europe, thus, it's highly probable that, Anne boleny have had some basque ascendancy



    yeah Anne boleyn prety much resembles to this basque girl, and i also think that, this basque girl resembles a lot to Shannen Doherty, dont you think?

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    Post Re: Classify this Aryan people please

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoob
    Do you have any more lore on the connection between Basques and Atlantis?
    Not for the moment, sorry.

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    Post Re: Classify this Aryan people please

    Quote Originally Posted by basken överhöghet
    yeah Anne boleyn prety much resembles to this basque girl, and i also think that, this basque girl resembles a lot to Shannen Doherty, dont you think?[/size]
    [/font]
    It's hard to say with Anne Boleyn as we only have artists impressions of her.
    Shannon Docherty does somewhat resemble that Basque girl, probably due to Atlantid influence in both

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