View Poll Results: Is Christianity alien to Germanics?

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  • Christianity is as alien to Germanics as Judaism and Islam.

    199 35.10%
  • Christianity is alien in origin, but it is less alien than Judaism and Islam.

    164 28.92%
  • Christianity is not alien to Germanics at all.

    168 29.63%
  • Other (please explain).

    36 6.35%
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Thread: Is Christianity Alien to Germanics?

  1. #1361
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    Christianity is Gentile Zionism in the spiritual realm. It's obvious by hymnals acclaiming that son of carpenter Joseph as King of Israel. I may take sides between Plantagenet and Valois as to who is rightful King of France, but it's irrelevant whether Herod or Jesus is anointed by the high priest in Jerusalem. I'm certainly not given to exaggeration and embellishment as to one's claim having divine sanction. It was for the best that Greece converted the Temple into that of Zeus. I would rather make a pilgrimage to that Hellenically-pronounced Tiwaz than a Jew.

    What do internal Jew schisms and heresies have to do with Aryan folks? What a sad inferiority complex, by looking to the East for all answers. Even a Gypsy fortune-teller has greater resonance to Vedic roots than such Babylonianism. I pray that I never suffer the misfortune of a trip to the Levant. Gentile Jews are so cucked beyond reason and 1700 years more of second class status for our kind is just depressing enough to wish Ragnarok came after all. Nobody who takes issue with the issue of Isaac or Ishmael has any business pretending to be an adopted son of their father Abraham. This LARPing of a nonexistent third party requires living inside the framework of their hell on earth.

    Just from the first page alone:

    The only truly folkish Christianity is Messianic Judaism. Islam is obviously of the Arabs, but it's also apparent that these two wiped out the remainder of Afroasiatic beliefs as well as absorbed all other peoples of their kind, for the most part, or made them tributaries devoid of self-direction and independent destinies.

    Paganism is universal in that it's an Indo-European system of equivalencies across the board, preserving mutual respect despite metaethnic subdivision. It just so happens to be that Abrahamic invaders and copycats have wiped out most Indo-European religion, except some Zoroastrianism, Hinduism and its offshoots.

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  3. #1362
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    Christianity is Gentile Zionism in the spiritual realm. [...]

    What do internal Jew schisms and heresies have to do with Aryan folks?
    You are not getting it. How old are you? That’s the result of your research of how many years?

    Rabbinical Judaism was only codified in the 6th century AD in Babylon with the Mishna, forming the foundation for the Babylonian Talmud.

    Christianity is the one true religion for all of mankind that began with God’s covenant with Abraham, son of Terah, at the beginning of the second millennium BC in Ur.

    While European paganism is interesting historically, literarily, and philosophically, it was replaced by Christianity, because Christianity was theologically true and morally superior.

    Everything the West (Christendom) has become, it became through Christianity. Everything that’s evil, decadent, and rotten today in the West is due to separation from the logos and from Christianity.

    The European pagans (first the Greeks, then the Latins, then the Germanics, Celts and Slavs) immediately understood that the natural law, the natural order of the universe they had worked out (the logos) is entirely contained and preserved in Christianity’s moral teachings, but enriched by a supernatural comprehension about the order of things.

    Dr. Michael A. Hoffman II will explain it to you:



    And if you wonder what happened to the lost tribes of Israel, Dr. Robert Sepher has found traces of them (although it doesn’t really matter):


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  5. #1363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodskarl Dubhgall View Post
    What do internal Jew schisms and heresies have to do with Aryan folks?
    Christianity has nothing to do with "internal Jew schisms", in fact Jews detest it. There is no figure hated by the Jews as much as Jesus and why? Because Jesus was the Son of God and they, the Jews, committed deicide by crucifying him for "blasphemy".

    There is nothing that paganism offers that Christianity does not. In fact, pagans are often morally relativist and have no dogma on matters like for example sexual deviancy. Some may accept homosexuals, some may not, some may like to marry, others like polyamory and casual relationships and it's all according to their personal preferences and moods or the archetype of one of the many gods they decide to follow, not according to a specific, universal dogma or set of morals. Christians on the other hand must adhere to a strict set of morals created by God himself, morals which are valid in every situation, not if one simply feels like it. Also when it comes to paganism, many are actually atheists and don't believe in the afterlife or judgment/punishment from their gods if they disrespect those moral standards. Some pagans are rebellious and disregard authority altogether.

    Without Christianity, morality is relative. What you find moral, another atheist/heathen/pagan may not, and viceversa. The tattoo thread was a good example of this. Some thought tattoos were degrading to the body while others were staunch supporters.

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  7. #1364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    I'm not so sure about that. Pagan Europeans were very much conscious of the commonalities between their different faiths and deities. So much so, that they even referred to other nations' deities by their own cognates. The Romans referred to Tiwaz as Jupiter, for instance, instead of seeing the two as separate.
    I'm not going to contradict you on the commonalities, however that's not an exclusively European feature either. Turks also practiced pagan faiths and even had their own runic scripts (gokturk scripts are similar to the norse runic scripts). Odin was believed to be a turkic shaman leader from the land of Aesir, situated in nowadays Azerbaijan. Shiva was a Hindu equivalent of Odin, etc.

    Apart from that, there's also the commonality of shared language roots, which was much more apparent a couple of millennia ago.
    The Maltese, a people who are generally considered European, speak a non-Indo-European language. So do your Nordic neighbors, the Finns, as well as the Estonians and Hungarians.

    As well as being part of the a similar phenotypic group. Something that a person who've lived in the middle of Europe their whole life, and only witnessed other Europeans, might not be cognisant of, but which would have become common knowledge with increased exploration and contact with non-White nations over the centuries.
    A large reason behind which was missionary work. Why would pagan Europeans want to have contact with non-European nations?

    With the minor exception of Europe's Eastern border (the Ural mountains), what we call the European landmass forms a quite obvious geographical entity, who's native inhabitants also coincides with what we know as Europid/White people. A clear continuum of ethnicities, with a stark contrast to the peoples inhabiting the areas directly outside of its borders (Turks, North-Africans, Eurasians, etc). I think it would only be natural and inevitable for a common identity to form around that.
    I will have to disagree on the geographical definition. Some people who are geographically outside of Europe are still considered Europeans while people who live within it aren't necessarily so. Turks are generally not considered European and neither are Azerbaijanis and Kazakhstani. The reason some Russian regions in Northern Caucasus and the Volga region are not considered European is not just geography but due to their Islamic faith.

    Anyway the question is not just of defining what is European but using it as a working political or religious concept. Did paganism have a similarly centralized, European-wide faith system to Christianity? Did paganism saw its sacred mission to protect Europe and its nations from the invasion of other faiths (e.g. Islam)? I haven't found any evidence to support this.

    I also believe that Bleyer has raised a good point when it comes to values. From where would pagan Europeans derive their morals and values? Let's take the specific case of abortion as an example. Why should a European pagan who is pregnant not decide to abort if she doesn't want to carry the pregnancy to term? You might say that it's immoral to kill an unborn child but then I am going to ask you why so, without having to rely on concepts like common sense or decency, which, as Bleyer pointed out, may differ from person to person.

    Which traditional concepts, or concepts associated with traditionalism or cultural conservatism are pagan in origin? Traditional marriage and gender roles for instance are Christian through and through. Christians had concepts like "children, kitchen, church" or "God, honour, fatherland". Where can I find similar pagan values? If I were pagan, and was unfamiliar or undecided and needed an answer to a particular moral question, where would I have to look for an absolute, objective answer and how could I be sure that it's the right one? Moreover, what if I were a pagan, but I was undecided about what to believe regarding the existence and form of gods? Again, I would ideally need a simple, objective, universal answer. We must not forget that Europe is in danger of becoming islamicised. I cannot think of a stronger opponent to the islamicization of Europe than Christianity. It has the tradition and it has the moral value. Is paganism as strong and as numerous of an opponent force? I have my doubts. Secularism hasn't been working very well. I take a look at Sweden, where 55% describe themselves as non-religious, and I shake my head in disbelief. Then I look at countries like Hungary, where Christian tradition is still alive, and I kind of like what I see in comparison.

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  9. #1365
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    Worship a dead Jew on a stick who was one rabbi among many? Not that important, especially for those who don't live inside the mental (desert sand) box. Good and bad people come and go; no Jew, Nazarene Simon or Pharisee Saul, need tell us right from wrong. That's a funny thing, to obsess so much about things from the filtred framework of totally foreign dregs. It's an instruction book on how to walk in the shoes of some Jews vs other Jews, all descended from Jacob, from Isaac, from Abraham, from Shem, etc. We're not ethno-linguistically or genetically related to them; their covenant is an inheritance pertaining their tribe and whoever they think or don't about being a second Moses or Joshua is their business, because it's their history.

    There's no imperative for Indo-Europeans or even Samaritan Israelis by the words of Jesus to follow him either in building their new Jerusalem. Quite the opposite in fact; all are poseurs. Groveling before one tribal mystery cult and blowing it out of proportion is far less dignified than Cyrus the Great being called Messiah by the Jews, or Alexander the Great and the Ptolemaic dynasty revered as pharaoh gods of Egypt. It's no better than putting Israel's needs ahead of our own countries, as the Crusades did and Neocon Zionists do now. It's supremely odd for a Persian, Greek or Roman to fall at the ground for Jewish ideals when the Jews fail miserably rating up to what may seem perfection and bound to fail, rather than stoke within oneself the nerve to fixate on ideals by fellow Indogermanics, fail or not. Hell, the Assyro-Babylonians were Semites and you didn't see them worried about Noah because they had Gilgamesh and not Moses because they had Hammurabi.

    Y'all worry about the Jewish version of Assyro-Babylonianism, while thinking that roleplaying their part as Goyim because a single Pharisee said it was great, but otherwise condemning them, somehow makes any sense. Jews sometimes tried to live like us and reverse circumcision, eat pork, be Buddhist or whatever and that's never been popular, except there's futility in being a minority surrounded by everybody not like oneself, so they might give in. It's just sickening that some rathole in the desert is the meaning of life for supposedly proud Aryan folks. LOL

  10. #1366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    I'm not going to contradict you on the commonalities, however that's not an exclusively European feature either. Turks also practiced pagan faiths and even had their own runic scripts (gokturk scripts are similar to the norse runic scripts).
    Paganism in and of itself wasn't the key religious commonality between ancient Europeans, Indo-European Paganism was. Pretty much every religion/faith prior to the Abrahamic religions could be described as 'Pagan'. I don't know anything about Turkic Paganism, but I very much doubt it had much in common with the types of Paganism that existed in Europe prior to Christianity.

    Granted, Old Turkic script share some morphological similarities with Germanic runes, but their respective characters share no phonological commonality. A person who could read Germanic runes would have no way of interpreting Old Turkic script correctly, even if he understood spoken Turkic. Such a person could reasonably interpret Latin writing (and to a lesser extent Greek) with some minor adjustment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Odin was believed to be a turkic shaman leader from the land of Aesir, situated in nowadays Azerbaijan. Shiva was a Hindu equivalent of Odin, etc.
    Odin originating in Azerbaijan was just a hypothesis of Thor Heyerdahl, with scant evidence. Still, how is Odin's proposed origin in the Proto-Indo-European heartland an argument against anything? Azerbaijan today is not the same as Azerbaijan two-three thousand years ago.

    Such a person be would likely not be Turkic, as such people didn't migrate into modern-day Azerbaijan well into the first millennium AD, from what I've understood. Before that, Arabs ruled the region. And before that, possibly Albanian-related peoples occupied the area.

    As for Shiva being an equivalent of Odin, I've never heard that before, and find it unlikely the two deities are of common origin, considering Odin's late introduction in the Germanic pantheon, thousands of years after the split between Indo-Europeans heading towards Northern Europe and those heading towards Southern Asia.


    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    The Maltese, a people who are generally considered European, speak a non-Indo-European language. So do your Nordic neighbors, the Finns, as well as the Estonians and Hungarians.
    The exceptions that confirm the rule. Over 90% of the European continent has been dominated by Indo-European culture and language for millennia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    A large reason behind which was missionary work. Why would pagan Europeans want to have contact with non-European nations?
    Europeans have travelled and conquered far away lands forever. How do you think Indo-Europeans ended up in Asia and Ireland? Alexander the Great was no Christian, either.

    Besides, isn't missionary work a strong argument against Christianity? Why would it be a benefit from a nationalist/preservationist point of view to include alien peoples and races into your cultural-religious sphere? Pagans who conquered new lands and foreign people usually let the locals maintain their traditional faith, or blended their religious traditions if they settled down there, thus maintaining a distinct separate identity between the conquered people and their own ethnic homelands.


    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    I will have to disagree on the geographical definition. Some people who are geographically outside of Europe are still considered Europeans while people who live within it aren't necessarily so.
    Yes, after the last half millennium of European migrations. But don't you think a common European identity would have had time to manifest before then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Turks are generally not considered European and neither are Azerbaijanis and Kazakhstani. The reason some Russian regions in Northern Caucasus and the Volga region are not considered European is not just geography but due to their Islamic faith.
    Hmm... No, I think it's mostly down to racial and linguistic differences with the core of Europeans. Bosnians and Albanians are still considered White and European, despite largely being Muslim. Why? Because they look, talk and live like Europeans, and originated in Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Anyway the question is not just of defining what is European but using it as a working political or religious concept. Did paganism have a similarly centralized, European-wide faith system to Christianity? Did paganism saw its sacred mission to protect Europe and its nations from the invasion of other faiths (e.g. Islam)? I haven't found any evidence to support this.
    What good did a centralized, European-wide religion do for Visigoth Spain? Or the Byzantine Empire and the Greeks? Or the Russians fighting off Mongol and Turkic invaders and overlords? Not to mention a thousand years of intra-European, intra-Christian wars with religious motivation. Not gonna claim Paganism would have performed any better on those counts, nor that Christianity never served a purpose in defending Europe, but it has very much been a two-edged sword throughout European history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    I also believe that Bleyer has raised a good point when it comes to values. From where would pagan Europeans derive their morals and values? Let's take the specific case of abortion as an example. Why should a European pagan who is pregnant not decide to abort if she doesn't want to carry the pregnancy to term? You might say that it's immoral to kill an unborn child but then I am going to ask you why so, without having to rely on concepts like common sense or decency, which, as Bleyer pointed out, may differ from person to person.
    One core concept of Paganism, is reverence of one's ancestors, as well as our children being a continuation of those ancestors. It's kind of a common knowledge/attitude, but Paganism helps to accentuate it. With that in mind, I doubt many Pagans would kill their unborn children. We derive our morals and values from understanding our myths and listening to our inner nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Which traditional concepts, or concepts associated with traditionalism or cultural conservatism are pagan in origin? Traditional marriage and gender roles for instance are Christian through and through.
    Sorry, you're going to have to qualify that. Pre-Christian Europe wasn't a place of polyamorous, gender-queer, hippie communes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Christians had concepts like "children, kitchen, church" or "God, honour, fatherland". Where can I find similar pagan values?
    Ancient Roman historian Tacitus about the 1st century Germanics:

    Their marriage code, however, is strict, and no feature of their morality deserves higher praise. They are almost unique among barbarians in being content with one wife apiece - all of them, that is, except a very few who take more than one wife not to satisfy their desires but because their exalted rank brings them many pressing offers of matrimonial alliances. The dowry is brought by husband to wife, not by wife to husband. Parents and kinsmen attend and approve the gifts - not gifts chosen to please a woman's fancy or gaily deck a young bride, but oxen, a horse with its bridle, or a shield, spear, and sword. In consideration of such gifts a man gets his wife, and she in her turn brings a present of arms to her husband. This interchange of gifts typifies for them the most sacred bond of union, sanctified by mystic rites under the favour of the presiding deities of wedlock. The woman must not think that she is excluded from aspirations to manly virtues or exempt from the hazards of warfare. That is why she is reminded, in the very ceremonies which bless her marriage at its outset, that she enters her husband's home to be the partner of his toils and perils, that both in peace and in war she is to share his sufferings and adventures. That is the meaning of the team of oxen, the horse ready for its rider, and the gift of arms. On these terms she must live her life and bear her children. She is receiving something that she must hand over intact and undepreciated to her children, something for her sons' wives to receive in their turn and pass on to her grandchildren.


    By such means is the virtue of their women protected, and they live uncorrupted by the temptations of public shows or the excitements of banquets. Clandestine loveletters are unknown to men and women alike. Adultery is extremely rare, considering the size of the population. A guilty wife is summarily punished by her husband. He cuts off her hair, strips her naked, and in the presence of kinsmen turns her out of his house and flogs her all through the village. They have in tact no mercy on a wife who prostitutes her chastity. Neither beauty, youth, nor wealth can find her another husband. No one in Germany finds vice amusing, or calls it 'up-to-date' to seduce and be seduced. Even better is the practice of those states in which only virgins may marry, so that a woman who has once been a bride has finished with all such hopes and aspirations. She takes one husband, just as she has one body and one life. Her thoughts must not stray beyond him or her desires survive him. And even that husband she must love not for himself, but as an embodiment of the married state. To restrict the number of children, or to kill any of those born after the heir, is considered wicked. Good morality is more effective in Germany than good laws are elsewhere.


    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    If I were pagan, and was unfamiliar or undecided and needed an answer to a particular moral question, where would I have to look for an absolute, objective answer and how could I be sure that it's the right one? Moreover, what if I were a pagan, but I was undecided about what to believe regarding the existence and form of gods? Again, I would ideally need a simple, objective, universal answer.
    Not to be a militant atheist grug-brain, but you believe something to be true simply because it says so in a book? I would believe even Christians require some sort of inner, spiritual, personal conviction that their belief is in fact true. And if so, the lack of objective scripture doesn't change much if you don't believe in it deep down already.

    And even then, your personal convictions would likely color your specific interpretation of the scripture as well. The positions and doctrines of the Catholic Church has changed quite a lot over the centuries, and there exists hundreds of different denominations of Christianity today, as well as countless of independent individuals with a very unique take on Christianity. So much for 'objective answers'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    We must not forget that Europe is in danger of becoming islamicised. I cannot think of a stronger opponent to the islamicization of Europe than Christianity. It has the tradition and it has the moral value. Is paganism as strong and as numerous of an opponent force? I have my doubts.
    You literally have Christian churches and groups financing the overpopulation in Africa, working to get as many 3rd Worlders to migrate to the West as possible (even Muslims), and use their religious status to offer illegal immigrants refuge inside their churches. Last time I saw the Pope on TV, he was washing and kissing some invading Muslims' feet.

    Which brings up another important point: In an era where the Western establishment is unequivocally working against the interests of European people, would adhering to centralized and controlled religious institutions really serve us well? Conventional Christianity is as corrupt, co-opted and anti-White as all our other institutions. A truly decentralized, organic and folkish faith has an edge in that regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Secularism hasn't been working very well. I take a look at Sweden, where 55% describe themselves as non-religious, and I shake my head in disbelief. Then I look at countries like Hungary, where Christian tradition is still alive, and I kind of like what I see in comparison.
    I think the key word here is 'tradition'. A people who value their traditions will be better equipped to stand up for their country and people, almost regardless of the content of those traditions.

    Danes are no more Christian than Swedes, yet their cultural and political profile today are miles apart. Ireland and Poland are both Catholic, and fall in the same ballpark in regards to religiosity, while only one of them is currently being flooded with 3rd Worlders, allow abortions and arrange massive gay pride parades.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    Pre-Christian Europe wasn't a place of polyamorous, gender-queer, hippie communes.
    Pagan mythology in Europe featured many cases of polyamory, homosexuality and gender-bending. Greek mythology features male same-sex love in many of the constituent myths. Apollo, an eternal beardless youth himself, had the most male lovers of all the Greek gods, as could be expected from a god who presided over the palaestra. The love god Eros was sometimes considered patron of pederastic love between males. Aphroditus was an androgynous Aphrodite from Cyprus, in later mythology became known as Hermaphroditus the son of Hermes and Aphrodite. Ancient Greek and Roman commentators attribute sexual activity between males, including pederasty, to pre-Christian Celtic tribes. In Ovid's Metamorphoses, the characters Iphis and Caeneus change sex. In the Norse sagas and laws, men who have sex with men in the active or "manly" role were not discriminated as the passive partner in homosexual intercourse. Freyr, a Norse god of fertility, may have been worshiped by a group of homosexual or effeminate priests, as suggested by Saxo Grammaticus in his Gesta Danorum. Some of the Norse gods were capable of changing sex at will. Odin himself was at times known to shapeshift into a woman in order to seduce male lovers. Loki frequently disguised himself as a woman. In one myth, he turned himself into a mare and, after having sex with the stallion Svašilfari, he gave birth to Sleipnir, an eight-legged foal. Many of these myths have actually been described as being crucially influential on Western LGBT literature.

    At some point, pagan European societies were seen as so decadent that for example in the case of Rome, their cultural decline was linked to the fall of their empire.

    When it comes to contemporary pagans, according to Wikipedia, the incidence of homosexuality among them is quite high, in particular when compared to the general population:

    A 2003 survey by Helen A. Berger found 28.3% of American neopagans identified in survey as gay, lesbian, or bisexual. In 2013, a survey of neopagans in England, Wales, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand found 49.8% of women and 44.5% of men identified as non-heterosexual. Of the non-heterosexual female demographic, 78.5% of identified as bisexual and 11.2% identified as lesbian/gay; of the non-heterosexual male demographic, 55.2% identified as gay and 37.1% identified as bisexual. A 2015 study survey by Pew Research Center found that 11% of lesbian, gay, and bisexual respondents identified with non-Christian faiths, a large portion of which being some form of neopaganism or interfaith universalist beliefs. This was nearly double the general population.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern...on_LGBT_people

    Ancient Roman historian Tacitus about the 1st century Germanics:

    Their marriage code, however, is strict, and no feature of their morality deserves higher praise. They are almost unique among barbarians in being content with one wife apiece - all of them, that is, except a very few who take more than one wife not to satisfy their desires but because their exalted rank brings them many pressing offers of matrimonial alliances.
    Where does this morality stem from, though? Is there a specific pagan code that dictates monogamy desirable or superior to polygamy from a strictly ethical point of view? Is there any evidence that the marriage customs of 1st century Germanics were practiced due to pagan beliefs on monogamy in the first place and not for example due to specific circumstances of the time? Were all pagan Germanics monogamous, or just the 1st century ones? The fact that Tacitus emphasizes this trait as "almost unique among barbarians" leads me to believe that monogamy was probably not the rule at the time among European tribes. Moreover, being content with one wife apiece does not necessarily mean that polygamy was seen as immoral or undesirable, some Muslims may also content with just one wife for example. Would ancient Germanics who took more than one wife be punished by law or ostracized from their community? Perhaps socio-economic status was a reason behind this satisfaction, especially considering that the exalted ranks were an exception and took more than one wife for the sake or alliances. That leads me to believe that monogamy may not have been seen as an absolute matter of ethics, as it is seen by Christians.

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    I'd say Christianity is foreign in origin, yes, but that's not the same as being alien to Germanics. And of course it's far less alien than Judaism and Islam. Even as a heathen, I'd prefer Christianity to the latter, especially since Christianity adopted some of our pre-Christian customs and values. However, I prefer our indigenous beliefs and practices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idis View Post
    Pagan mythology in Europe featured many cases of polyamory, homosexuality and gender-bending. Greek mythology features male same-sex love in many of the constituent myths. Apollo, an eternal beardless youth himself, had the most male lovers of all the Greek gods, as could be expected from a god who presided over the palaestra. The love god Eros was sometimes considered patron of pederastic love between males. Aphroditus was an androgynous Aphrodite from Cyprus, in later mythology became known as Hermaphroditus the son of Hermes and Aphrodite.
    I think the ancient Greeks are a bit of an exception in this regard, and seem to have a had quite a bit looser attitude to sexuality than Europeans in general at the time. There's not much evidence of man-boy-love being common or accepted elsewhere in ancient Europe, as far as I know.

    Still, it's worth pointing out that Pagan deities are actors in myths, not necessarily role models to be imitated in every single regard of life. And what's one image of a deity in one region, might differ from their image in the neighboring region. Ganymedes for instance, Zeus' favorite boy toy, was considered a fabricated myth by Plato, supposedly invented by the Cretans to justify their special sexual practices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Idis View Post
    In the Norse sagas and laws, men who have sex with men in the active or "manly" role were not discriminated as the passive partner in homosexual intercourse.
    I've heard historians claim that, but reading the sagas they usually refer to, I've failed to find a decisive source for it. Homosexual relations surely happened in the Viking age as well, but I've never seen any evidence of it being commonplace. According to some law texts, a man was lawfully permitted to slay another man who wrongfully slandered him as gay. But there probably weren't any concerted efforts to punish or kill people who partook in homosexual acts. Sounds reasonable to me.

    And in Tacitus' Germania, there's some indication that homosexuals were drowned and buried in bogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Idis View Post
    Freyr, a Norse god of fertility, may have been worshiped by a group of homosexual or effeminate priests, as suggested by Saxo Grammaticus in his Gesta Danorum.
    Well, priests are a weird bunch. There's no shortage of pederast priests in the Catholic Church, either, so I'm not sure what we're supposed to take away from this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Idis View Post
    Some of the Norse gods were capable of changing sex at will. Odin himself was at times known to shapeshift into a woman in order to seduce male lovers. Loki frequently disguised himself as a woman. In one myth, he turned himself into a mare and, after having sex with the stallion Svašilfari, he gave birth to Sleipnir, an eight-legged foal.
    And in the nativity of Jesus, God impregnates a virgin in order to give birth to himself. Are we supposed to take that literal and something to be imitated?

    Obviously, a human being cannot transform into a horse in order to do the business with another horse. The myth isn't something meant to be acted out in real life. Which I'm certain most people understood, even back then. And Loki is hardly a role model in Norse mythology, but an uncontrollable force of chaos, transgression and mischief.

    Quote Originally Posted by Idis View Post
    Many of these myths have actually been described as being crucially influential on Western LGBT literature.
    I seriously doubt ancient European Pagan myths had much to do with the (largely Jewish) development of the LGBT movement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Idis View Post
    At some point, pagan European societies were seen as so decadent that for example in the case of Rome, their cultural decline was linked to the fall of their empire.
    How does that make sense? Rome was Christian at the time of its fall, and many of the invading tribes were still largely Pagan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Idis View Post
    When it comes to contemporary pagans, according to Wikipedia, the incidence of homosexuality among them is quite high, in particular when compared to the general population:
    I couldn't find the source material online, but those numbers seem way too high in my experience. I would think a large number of the "neo-Pagans" included in the research were Wiccans, whom are infamous sexual deviants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Idis View Post
    Where does this morality stem from, though? Is there a specific pagan code that dictates monogamy desirable or superior to polygamy from a strictly ethical point of view?
    Morality is sensed and comes from within. Simply following rules in a book or obeying commands from a God, out of fear for repercussions, has nothing to do with morality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Idis View Post
    Is there any evidence that the marriage customs of 1st century Germanics were practiced due to pagan beliefs on monogamy in the first place and not for example due to specific circumstances of the time? Were all pagan Germanics monogamous, or just the 1st century ones?
    I can't provide any literary evidence, but simple logic dictates that people didn't allow their partners to go around and sleep with whomever they liked, willy-nilly, for the simple reason that childrearing would have been seriously hampered, as well as their inheritance practices.

    Did they do what they did because they felt obliged to by the Gods? No idea. Do we know why Medieval Christians acted the way they acted? Because of a genuine belief in the scripture, or because authority demanded it?
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    Christian and "psychiatric" anachronistic interpretations of historic paganism are automatically suspect, as are impositions by Satanists and Wiccans for their own agendas. Comparative analysis is properly contextual by Indo-Germanic studies, chiefly by referencing extant paganism elsewhere. It may bother some Christians obsessed with the fiat adoption and imposition by the Constantinian Romans and their Medięval copycats, pretending it was Julian out of step with the culture--Europe was NOT Christendom and Christendom was NOT Europe, but I'd rather have what comes naturally in common with actual, factual genetic cousins in the Subcontinent than the Middle East fantasy concocted in the Dark Ages of Noah and his sons supposedly having to do with us. That doesn't mean I'd want to be Hindu or Buddhist, just find validation in them continuing parallel versions of the same things endemic to Indo-Germanic folks in Europe. What's so superior about the Jew Bible than the Rig Vedas anyway, to feel so superior about discarding Indo-Germanic heritage for a Semitic replacement? If the Rig Vedas are foreign despite Indo-Germanic basis, that's a damning indictment of Afroasiatic Biblical obsessions outside of our race. If traditions within our race and versions within our metaethnicity are somehow "too strange", then there's no hope for Yahweh/Eli. Lulz

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