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Thread: National Socialists vs. Soviets

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    Senior Member bdm's Avatar
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    National Socialists vs. Soviets

    Which army was more brutal in their treatment of prisoners and the civilian population of nations they invaded, the German Army under Hitler or the Soviet Army under Stalin?

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    in the case of civilians, the soviets for sure...or so first hand accounts seem to indicate to me at least

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    Please don't pluralise with apostrophes! It will drive me insane!

    Anyways..

    I don't really have an opinion. I would suppose the Soviets though, by accounts and readings.
    People turn to poison as quick as lager turns to piss

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    The Soviets were the most brutal. More citizens of the Soviet Union were murdered by the Stalin regime,(before, during & after WWII), then were killed by the Nazis. I think it is highly probable that some of the war deaths blamed on the Nazis, were actually committed by the Soviets; such as the Katyn massacre which the Soviets blames on the Germans, but which Gorbachev admitted had been committed by the Soviets in 1990.

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    Senior Member Matamoros's Avatar
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    I've read a lot on the subject, and I believe the Soviets were the most brutal. Millions of women raped, an extremely high death rate among prisoners, and they even killed their own men who had been captured by the enemy. Also notable is the use of "punishment battalions" of their own men - forced to perform tasks like walking across minefields in order to clear them for the following tanks.

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    Senior Member bdm's Avatar
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    No doubt Stalin's boys were brutal, but please correct me if I'm wrong, didn't Hitler's troops start the massacre of innocents when they marched into the Ukraine and Russia in the first place? Didn't they start the bloodshed by killing Polish, Lithuanian, Ukrainian and Russian civilians just for sport? Didn't this set the tone for total war? Am I wrong? Please straighten me out if I am. Also, if any of you can recommend some insightful history books on the brutality of either the Russian or the German troops, please let us know. Thanks.

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    I'm not sure. It's a bit like asking who is better - Backstreet Boys or N Sync. Both are about as bad as each other.

    Eastern Europe and elsewhere in the long run may have been better off under Soviet than Nazi rule. The Nazis occupied areas during war time, so we cannot be totally certain what their long-term peace time intentions would have been towards their conquered peoples.

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    Soviets. The Germans were by no means kind, but they had at least partial justification (usually assassinations by Partisans). Also, the Soviets were crueler to their own people (the Slavs) than the Nazis were to the Germans, which I think is the best way to look at it.

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    Stalin actually. Hitler killed for reasons, which seem rather weird but there were reasons for them whereas Stalin's regime had fixed minimum quotas as part of the terror for executions and gulags.
    Ceterum censeo Iudaeam esse delendam.

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    Wehrmacht units committed the least amount of unlawful rape and looting of all armies which fought in WWII. It was very rare that a Wehrmacht soldier raped a woman or stole property civilians in e.g. France or Norway. The behavior of Allied soldiers in occupation duty was much worse in these areas.

    Einsatzgruppen on the Eastern Front and certain SS units were guilty of some crimes against civilians but the number of people involved in these actions was small and they were in separate organizations.

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