View Poll Results: Are you in favour of capital punishment?

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  • Yes and it should be used often

    104 42.28%
  • Yes, but it should be sparingly

    87 35.37%
  • No it is immoral

    15 6.10%
  • No because miscarriages of justice are inevitable

    29 11.79%
  • Other (please elaborate)

    11 4.47%
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Thread: Are You in Favour of the Death Penalty/Capital Punishment?

  1. #561

    Rapist-murderer of children to hang in rare case after India’s Supreme Court dismisses appeal


    Almost a decade after two men abducted, raped and killed two children in the Indian city of Coimbatore, death sentence passed on the surviving perpetrator got ultimate confirmation by the nation’s top court.


    R Manoharan is to die by hanging after the three-judge court dismissed in full on Thursday his petition to review his death sentence. In a 2:1 vote, the court ruled death is more appropriate punishment than a life behind bars for the “shocking” and “cold-blooded” crimes he had committed.


    The October 2010 case horrified India with the callous brutality of Manoharan and his accomplice, Mohanakrishnan. The latter, who worked as a taxi driver, abused the trust of the wealthy Jain family, which occasionally used his services when their regular driver was not available.


    Mohanakrishnan picked up two siblings, the 7-year-old brother Hrithik and the 10-year-old sister Muskan, ostensibly to take them to school. But the two men, who were both 23 at the time, abducted the siblings for ransom. But they apparently got cold feet and, instead, decided to get rid of the children, but not before raping the little girl. They then gave them poisoned milk, which failed to kill the siblings, and later tied them up and dumped into a canal, killing the battered helpless victims by drowning.


    Both men were quickly identified and arrested, but only Manoharan ever stood before the court for the crimes. His accomplice was shot and killed by the police in early November, when he was brought to the crime scene and reportedly tried to escape. The surviving killer-rapist was sentenced to death in 2012, and remained on the death row since as his appeals went up the judicial branch. It reached the Supreme Court in August this year.


    Capital punishment was kept by India’s penal code after the nation became independent, with the assassin of Mahatma Gandhi and one of his co-conspirators becoming the first to be hanged in 1949. Deaths sentences have only rarely led to executions in the past decades, even less so for crimes not related to terrorism. The only such person to be executed in the 21st century was a convicted rapist of a 14-year-old girl, who was hanged in West Bengal in 2004.



    R T: Rapist-murderer of children to hang in rare case after India’s Supreme Court dismisses appeal

    07 XI 2019.

  2. #562
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    This is a topic where I posted somewhat controversial ideas when I was a tender 18 or 19 years of age. And it's a topic about which I've probably changed my mind more than any other topic over the years. I naturally also don't consider torturous practices as a possible method of punishment as I mused in these carefree years of youth. An iron hand can, after all, be applied for the most heinous crimes without acting like Attila the Hun.

    Back in the days, I had this notion of society needing to liberally employ the death penalty for hard and/or repeated instances of the four most offensive crimes, which continue to remain child molestation, rape, murder and high treason --- based on the honour codex of a long bygone era. I matured then into believing it should be available as an option, but used sparingly. I also still had this notion a three-way-verdict system of guilty/not guilty/not proven could make sure, miscarriages of justice didn't happen. Bear in mind I was then a law student and tackled the topic from a somewhat more abstract position and had this idea the Rule of Law was a bit like a philosopher king.

    At this point in time, I do no longer believe that the death penalty is an adequate punishment. And it all happened over the "high treason" point. I still consider that to be amongst the worst crimes. However, it's subject to interpretation and open to abuse. As far as we're concerned, some far-left "experts" would field an "expertise" that would essentially end in sending people to the gallows for "hate speech" on supposed 'high treason' counts. The more disheartened you become with how the Deep State functions, the less you believe you should give the power over life and death into its hands.

    Domestic rapists and child molesters should instead, like serial killers and other clear cold-blooded murderers, be sent to lengthy prison sentences with few freedoms. The former two should ideally be considered for chemical castration upon release. For all three, there should be an option of "life without an option of parole". Also, high security prisons should cease to be the "holiday camp" places they currently are in much of Europe.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  3. #563
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    It really depends what punishment philosophy you believe in ...
    Deterrence? Tons of research is available to show that the DP in not an effective deterrent.

    Incapacitation? Well, works to some degree because murderous biest is not out on the street doing more bad things - but can be accomplished more cheaply via incarceration
    Retribution? Best argument still for the DP - eye for an eye
    As far as the US is concerned, financially it's just not feasible. Even if you you are strongly believing in the eye for an eye principles, it makes financially no sense, because a DP case costs way more than housing someone for the rest of their lives (appeals etc.).

  4. #564
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    Very much in favour of it on crystal clear cases that are backed by undeniable evidence.

    And the death penalty should apply only to all sorts of pedophiles, even if they "just" owned pornographic material and to all psychopathic murderers and general mass murderers.

  5. #565

    Man who murdered 19 people at disability care home in Japan is sentenced to death


    A JAPANESE MAN has been sentenced to death for the stabbing murder of 19 disabled people at a care home, in one of the country’s worst mass killings.


    Satoshi Uematsu never disputed his involvement in the grisly rampage but his lawyers entered a plea of not guilty, arguing the 30-year-old was suffering a “mental disorder” linked to his use of marijuana.

    The court ruled that the former employee of the facility deserved no leniency over the 2016 attack, which shocked the country. “The lives of 19 people were taken away. This is profoundly grave,” chief judge Kiyoshi Aonuma told the court. Uematsu planned the murders and had “an extreme intention to kill”, he added.

    Prosecutors had sought the death penalty — which in Japan is carried out by hanging — and argued that the defendant was capable of taking responsibility for the violence at the Tsukui Yamayuri-en centre, just outside Tokyo. Uematsu was impassive as the verdict was announced, looking straight ahead at the judge as he was sentenced.He wore a black suit with his hair in a long ponytail down to his waist, and was flanked by six uniformed court officers wearing surgical masks.

    Uematsu, who faced six charges including murder, reportedly said before the trial that he would not appeal any verdict, though he argued he did not deserve the death penalty. He has reportedly said he wanted to eradicate all disabled people in the horrifying attack that also left 26 people wounded.


    ‘I hate you so much’

    He turned himself in to police after the assault, carrying bloodied knives.

    It later emerged he had left his job at the home just months earlier and been forcibly hospitalised after telling colleagues he intended to kill people at the centre. But he was discharged after just 12 days when a doctor decided he was not a threat. He had also written a letter outlining plans to attack the home, claiming “disabled people only create unhappiness”.

    Among the few victims to be identified publicly was a 19-year-old woman, Miho, whose mother said Uematsu “didn’t need a future”. “I hate you so much. I want to rip you apart. Even the most extreme penalty is light for you. I will never forgive you,” the mother said before the verdict, according to public broadcaster NHK.

    Please bring back my most precious daughter… You’re still alive. It’s not fair. It’s wrong. I demand capital punishment.

    Takashi Ono, whose son was severely injured in the attack, told reporters he was “relieved”. “The judge gave the sentence the victims’ families hoped for,” he said. However, some questioned the need for the death sentence, a policy that faces little major opposition in Japan. “It shouldn’t have been the death sentence. We should have allowed him to learn better,” said Rie Sumida, a disabled 45-year-old woman waiting for the verdict. “If you kill the person because of what he did, it means you do the same thing as Uematsu,” she told AFP.


    No remorse

    The head of the care home, Kaoru Irikura, had tears in her eyes as she described listening to the verdict. “When the judge explained Uematsu’s motives again today, I imagined each scene” from the day of the attack, she said tearfully. “I want him to have to face what he has done until the day he dies.”

    The trial was closely watched, and a court spokesman said more than 1,600 people lined up for 10 seats available for the verdict. The number of spots was reduced because of rules requiring spectators to sit apart to prevent the spread of coronavirus.

    Uematsu has shown no remorse for the attack, telling Japan’s Mainichi Shimbun daily that people with mental disabilities “have no heart”, and for them “there’s no point in living”. Uematsu’s beliefs shocked Japan, with experts and activists raising questions about whether others might hold similar views.

    Japan has been making efforts to increase accessibility — particularly in Tokyo ahead of this year’s Paralympic Games — and activists hailed last year’s election of two disabled lawmakers. But some critics feel the country still falls short of fully integrating people with disabilities.



    Proper order. Japan is very safe country, and they don’t shrink away from handing out proper sentences.

    And people say hash isn’t a bad drug?

    Lawyer defending the use of weed in court : it causes no harm, it should be legal,
    Lawyer defending a mass murderer in court: it was the weed that caused him to do it.



    Man who murdered 19 people at disability care home in Japan is sentenced to death

    16 III 2020.

  6. #566

    Nirbhaya gang rape convicts executed at Delhi prison, bringing shocking 7+ year case to a close after countless delays


    The four men convicted for the grisly 2012 gang rape and murder of a young student in India have been executed by hanging, finally bringing the seven-year ‘Nirbhaya’ case to an end after a lengthy ordeal of appeals and delays.



    The assailants were hanged at New Delhi’s Tihar Jail 5:30am local time on Friday, following marathon legal proceedings the night prior which saw last-ditch attempts to appeal their sentence shot down.“Now I will get peace,” said Asha Devi, the mother of the victim who has come to be known as ‘Nirbhaya’ or ‘the fearless one’ in Hindi. She was speaking to PTI after the men's final hanging date was set in stone early on Friday morning.


    The ghastly crime saw a group of attackers descend upon a 23-year-old student and her male companion on a bus in India’s capital on the evening of December 16, 2012, savagely beating both and taking turns raping the young student. Though the woman lived through the initial onslaught, she later died of severe internal injuries, while her friend was critically injured but survived the encounter.


    Justice delayed


    Six men were arrested for the horrific assault, but one of them – a juvenile at the time of the incident – was tried as a minor and released in 2015 after a three-year sentence. An adult suspect, Ram Singh, was found dead in his jail cell in March 2013, a suspected suicide, but police never ruled out murder.


    The remaining four men – Vinay Sharma, Mukesh Kumar Singh, Pawan Gupta and Akshay Singh – were convicted of rape, murder, unnatural offenses and destruction of evidence in 2013, with all sentencedto execution by hanging within days of the verdict.



    So began a years-long process of delays, which saw each convict exhaust a seemingly endless series of appeals that repeatedly pushed back their date of execution. At various points throughout the ordeal, the courts accused the men of “delaying tactics,” but nonetheless recognized their right to appeal.


    A Delhi high court
    upheld the death sentence in 2014, prompting the men to bring the case to India’s Supreme Court, the country’s highest judicial body. After years of stop-start proceedings, the court struck down their final remaining appeal last December – some seven years after the attack.



    Though some of the convicts ran out of legal remedies before the others, Indian law stipulates that suspects jointly convicted of the same capital offense must be executed on the same date, meaning that as long as one of the men pursued appeals, none could be hanged.


    A judge in Delhi issued death warrants for all four men in January, setting their execution for later the same month, but the process was to be frustrated yet again, with some of the convicts filing final mercy pleas to President Ram Nath Kovind, and their lawyers making desperate last-minute attempts to delay their hanging. Three additional death warrants would be issued in the weeks that followed, seeing the execution date pushed back to February 1, then March 3, and finally to March 20.


    Ripple effects


    The brutal crime and the ensuing legal row shocked the conscience of India, stoking nationwide protests which helped to push through a number of changes to the country’s sexual assault laws, including instituting the death penalty for the rape of minors. The legal definition of rape was also broadened in the wake of the case, while other crimes, including acid attacks, sexual harassment, stalking and voyeurism were added to the criminal code.


    In addition to a number of books, comics and TV shows, the case has even inspired a Netflix crime drama series, ‘Delhi Crime,’ based on the attack and the work of police detectives tasked with tracking down the culprits.



    Nice diversion - all rapists no matter what religion should NOT be tolerated. I find it interesting that you don't mention any other religions. Read about Pakistani grooming gangs in the UK, read Nadia Murad's book about Yazidi women's experiences and ask the Swedes and Germans how cultural integration is going in their communities.



    R T:Nirbhaya gang rape convicts executed at Delhi prison, bringing shocking 7+ year case to a close after countless delays 20 III 2020.



    We, throughout the West, should be like the Swiss - referendums on all major issues.

  7. #567
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    I'd like to bring up the concept of "containment" vs "punishment". There are people who are of such a bizarre mental reality that "punishment" does not even make sense (since they do not comprehend reality in the usual way). Containment away from society is what certain "criminals" should be given for life (that means "life" .... their lifetime!). This would probably be spun as unfair by certain people but truly within society there are many purely problematic people causing trouble (the issue here is that the low class ones a usually picked on (causing generally more easily seen violence, theft, etc) whereas the high class wealthy ones are rarely picked on when it's the higher wealthy ones that basically are the worst problem (causing millions/billins of thef, destabilization of societies,etc lol)

    One of my problems with the "death penalty" is the state of justice and similarly, the degree of how far real justice is degraded. If true justice is degraded and false because the system is unjust, has problems related to laziness, unethical payments (kickbacks, under-the-table bonuses, etc), pressures, biases, or simply threats from various directions then the system is not a reliable judge of guilt or innocence.

    In the USA (as an example) there have been people who have been executed who have been later proven to be innocent. And so this if one major force pressuring against the death penalty.


    In my opinion though, there are people who commit actions which should mean they cannot under any circumstances enter normal society ever again. They should never be allowed to enter society and be a threat to people. There should never be a chance of repeated child molesters, repeated rapists, repeated murderers to re-enter society period!. They should be interned within camps where they live and perhaps do some useful task for society. This would of course also apply to countless corrupt treacherous politicians, lawyers, judges, dual-Israeli citizens/traitors , lying Hollywood higher-ups ... so I guess these camps would get pretty crowded :-) >


    It is outrageous when our justice systems release some multiple-occurrence child molester back into normal society and merely say in the newspaper ... "so-and-so has been released back into the public living in such-and -such a place and has a high chance of enacting their crime again".

    Well thanks for the warning! LOL ... would have been better if this dude never made it back out to do this again! But I guess that would have been against his rights! Well what about the rights of protection of his next victim!

    -------------

    Perhaps this got off the topic of "capitol punishment". I would say in the cases of 100% total undisputed guilt where the person was 100% proven guilty and totally of a mental character to do these crimes again or have zero remorse, then execution should be a resort. However, there are so many cases of bad justice executing innocent people that I am very reluctant about this!

    The prerequisite is that justice if purely just and sound. If it is corrupt then the judgement are corrupt!

  8. #568
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    I am not sure about the effectiveness of retributive punishments. As long as there's a very strong machinery, crime is averted, but what happens after the fall of the machinery? When a mistake or crime is avoided due to fear, it's a negative victory. But when a society at large with education, discourses and evolution naturally understand and avert the crime, that's where positive justice lies. Also, retributive justice is usually in societies with authoritarian and conservative regimes. But what happens when the mistake is from a member of the regime or by the regime? Retributive punishments has lots of ifs and buts and happens in societies where everything is a binary- good or bad. But the whole world is grey? Then how relevant would the laws be?

  9. #569
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    Maybe the death penalty would be unnecessary or very rarely used in a high trust, reasonably homogenous society. Very few of us live in one of those these days. I don't think it does much good now either but that's because it's sort of a crapshoot which of the many murders which contain the elements that would allow for a death sentence are actually charged and sentenced that way. A deterrent can't work if the odds of it being carried out, even if the criminal is caught and convicted, are miniscule.

  10. #570
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    From an economic point of view, I'd say death penalty is a good thing. You might question if it's humane or even an punishment, you could see it as escaping it.
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